learning to trail brake
12-07-2017, 09:16 AM
#46
Drifting
A different perspective from a non-data guy. Stop using so much brake. I mean a lot less. If you are feeling good, in control, safe and smooth, well then you are going too slow. It means you used too much brake. You should be a little scared that you aren't going to make it. To lessen the fear but still be fast, look as far down the track as possible. And hang on for dear life.
Let off the brake sooner than comfortable. Get on the gas sooner. And hang on!
fwiw, I have vbox, I've seen the data. I understand the physics involved. But I just can't (won't?) translate all those squiggles into how to drive. I only watch the videos only when it's car to car, door to door racing, for entertainment. Otherwise I just fill data cards all weekend only to be erased next race weekend.
Remember they didn't used to have data, just stop watches.
Let off the brake sooner than comfortable. Get on the gas sooner. And hang on!
fwiw, I have vbox, I've seen the data. I understand the physics involved. But I just can't (won't?) translate all those squiggles into how to drive. I only watch the videos only when it's car to car, door to door racing, for entertainment. Otherwise I just fill data cards all weekend only to be erased next race weekend.
Remember they didn't used to have data, just stop watches.
12-07-2017, 10:16 AM
#47
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A different perspective from a non-data guy. Stop using so much brake. I mean a lot less. If you are feeling good, in control, safe and smooth, well then you are going too slow. It means you used too much brake. You should be a little scared that you aren't going to make it. To lessen the fear but still be fast, look as far down the track as possible. And hang on for dear life.
Let off the brake sooner than comfortable. Get on the gas sooner. And hang on!
Remember they didn't used to have data, just stop watches.
Let off the brake sooner than comfortable. Get on the gas sooner. And hang on!
Remember they didn't used to have data, just stop watches.
Great post, Clarke. You are one of the few ams that are NOT afraid...
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12-07-2017, 11:32 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
To Clarke's point, most people would be surprised and shocked just how little they really need to brake for most track corners...
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 12-07-2017 at 01:31 PM.
12-07-2017, 01:05 PM
#50
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Right here... The RELATIONSHIP between the last ebb of brake pressure, the significant overlap of lateral acceleration with brake pressure AND longitudinal g, but still, throttle app shouldn't need the correction that is present just to the right of the circled area as evidenced by the dip in Long g. Good example.
12-08-2017, 08:09 AM
#55
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by GT3DE
It's not about braking later.
it's about braking less and releasing brake earlier.
it's about braking less and releasing brake earlier.
12-08-2017, 09:41 AM
#56
A different perspective from a non-data guy. Stop using so much brake. I mean a lot less. If you are feeling good, in control, safe and smooth, well then you are going too slow. It means you used too much brake. You should be a little scared that you aren't going to make it. To lessen the fear but still be fast, look as far down the track as possible. And hang on for dear life.
Let off the brake sooner than comfortable. Get on the gas sooner. And hang on!
Let off the brake sooner than comfortable. Get on the gas sooner. And hang on!
)And yes, don't spend a lot of time looking at your braking/lifting point--look ahead to the entry of the upcoming turn, then when you get into the turn adjust your inputs as needed (as discussed in the "Coasting......" thread) and drive the corner. Look at your entry and exit speeds (or revs) to see how you did. If you don't have any slip angle going through the turn you weren't fast enough--get that going and then manage that.
Gary
12-08-2017, 11:20 AM
#57
Drifting
12-08-2017, 03:39 PM
#58
Rennlist Member
As a quick easy to understand summary of how and why to trail brake:
As you learn to drive faster, you will find that you can brake later, so late in that, you wont scrub off enough speed to effectively make the approaching turn, however, what drivers discover, is that there is a tremendous force associated with turning, so, understanding that capability, and how it is made, more effective by adding braking (made more effective by resultant weight transfer) , you have the essence of what trail braking is and does. to learn how to do it, you need to understand what it does, and practice taking advantage of a turn in style that goes from "brake straight, release, turn in" to a "brake later, turn in then release brakes" approach.
Simply put, turn in should be thought of part of the slowing process, and trail breaking enhances it's effects. this is why students are often urged to run a lap with no brakes to see and feel the effects of the slowing effects of the "turn". Later, using that feeling as a foundation to brake later and hold the braking later , albeit slightly reduced, going into the turn (i.e. trail brake)
I dont think i agree .. analogous to the slip angle post, if before the apex, you dont have any slip angle, you are not going fast enough, this means on some turns, trail braking will allow for this to happen, creating actually a later point of brake release.
yes, very true!
As you learn to drive faster, you will find that you can brake later, so late in that, you wont scrub off enough speed to effectively make the approaching turn, however, what drivers discover, is that there is a tremendous force associated with turning, so, understanding that capability, and how it is made, more effective by adding braking (made more effective by resultant weight transfer) , you have the essence of what trail braking is and does. to learn how to do it, you need to understand what it does, and practice taking advantage of a turn in style that goes from "brake straight, release, turn in" to a "brake later, turn in then release brakes" approach.
Simply put, turn in should be thought of part of the slowing process, and trail breaking enhances it's effects. this is why students are often urged to run a lap with no brakes to see and feel the effects of the slowing effects of the "turn". Later, using that feeling as a foundation to brake later and hold the braking later , albeit slightly reduced, going into the turn (i.e. trail brake)
I dont think i agree .. analogous to the slip angle post, if before the apex, you dont have any slip angle, you are not going fast enough, this means on some turns, trail braking will allow for this to happen, creating actually a later point of brake release.
From another non-data guy with a low-hp car, great post.....you should be thinking about how little brake you can get away with (or in my case oftentimes how long I can stay on the gas before lifting/breathing i.e. Mosport's T8 and WGI's T11 )
And yes, don't spend a lot of time looking at your braking/lifting point--look ahead to the entry of the upcoming turn, then when you get into the turn adjust your inputs as needed (as discussed in the "Coasting......" thread) and drive the corner. Look at your entry and exit speeds (or revs) to see how you did. If you don't have any slip angle going through the turn you weren't fast enough--get that going and then manage that.
Gary
)And yes, don't spend a lot of time looking at your braking/lifting point--look ahead to the entry of the upcoming turn, then when you get into the turn adjust your inputs as needed (as discussed in the "Coasting......" thread) and drive the corner. Look at your entry and exit speeds (or revs) to see how you did. If you don't have any slip angle going through the turn you weren't fast enough--get that going and then manage that.
Gary
12-09-2017, 10:09 PM
#59
Pro
Thread Starter
Simply put, turn in should be thought of part of the slowing process, and trail breaking enhances it's effects. this is why students are often urged to run a lap with no brakes to see and feel the effects of the slowing effects of the "turn". Later, using that feeling as a foundation to brake later and hold the braking later , albeit slightly reduced, going into the turn (i.e. trail brake)
