DTMiller

I don't try to line up first but I often line up on the early side because if I come out last the front of the line will be coming up on me pretty quickly and then I never get clean laps. If I go out early and point the fast guys by in the first lap I get several clean laps or maybe the rest of the session depending on car counts and size of the track.

ExMB

Aha! Might have been easier if you could've stated this info when asked without naming the others you do participate with. While in general DE organizations try not to differ too much from each other, some do.

rlm328

That is not what I said.

I said that when one goes to an unfamiliar track one should be placed in the run group below what they are normally in. For example if you are Yellow (or however your club differentiates driver ability) drop to Blue for a couple of sessions to get acquainted with the track.

As far as not a timed event, while not official most of the drivers at these events know their lap times and are comparing them. I am not asking the event to collect data or any other such nonsense.

As far as COTA is concerned it is not a very good HPDE track.

177mph

Very interesting observation.

Kevin Fennell

I agree, I think it really nails down much of the issue.

NYoutftr

ExMB

No flame, but when you are talking about roughly knowing times that means that you are talking about people that have run the track and not the newcomers fulfilling a bucket list item. Also COTA is full in the run groups. Moving someone between groups will mean that you need to leave room in the groups and quite possibly forgo financial compensation; or exceed your self imposed limits.

Texas RS

Perceptive and correct.

fatbillybob

Yes the solution is very simple. All you have to do if lower groups frustrate you is advance to "open passing no point-by group" or start racing.

All issues of who is faster or who is better is always settled during a race.

And in open passing no one should complain. If you can't pass...learn how.

There is always the hot pit and the starter will put you back out in a different spacing.

Why do drivers not take control over their own destiny? Why do drivers have to make their problem other people's problem?

If I want to listen to whining I got a wife for that.

Akunob

The issues you highlight occur at every DE however things usually sort themselves out by the 3rd session (I.e., the first afternoon session on Day 1). In the first 2 sessions, drivers typically "size" each other up. You will know the 2-3 cars that are clearly way faster than you, the 1-2 cars that are the "slow cars" and the remaining cars you are competitive with. Most drivers give quick point byes to those 2-3 cars that they know are clearly faster. The 1-2 really "slow" cars usually give quick enough point byes however trains form when they don't give MULTIPLE point byes in passing zones.

Usually a courteous polite conversation with the driver in the paddock is all it takes. Just encourage the driver to give multiple point byes...many drivers are not comfortable giving MULTIPLE point byes in a single passing zone as it kills their momentum.

I can't speak for the behavior at COTA but at most tracks that I attend, most passing issues resolve themselves by the afternoon of Day One!

Brian C in Az

I think that part of the problem is the way many people pull up behind the slower car right behind their rear bumper. They tend to lose their own momentum before getting a point by, so the guy in the high HP car just gasses it and pulls away. If I am quicker through the corner, I will proceed to exit the corner in a manner to execute a racing pass. If I am past the slow guy's bumper and even with his side mirrors, he usually gets the hint and points me by. If he doesn't, I back off and pull back in line behind him for the next corner. If I exit my turn like most, directly behind the slower driver and pull up to his bumper, by the time he points, I have already lost my advantage because I can't accelerate fully. I found it better to presume the point by is coming, driving the appropriate line coming out of the turn, and pulling right up along side. It is safe, I'm not crowding him, and if he doesn't point, I just lift and move in behind him.

ExMB

In theory, if the driver to be passed paid attention in the driver's meeting, that should be the best; car to be passed stays online. But invariably you get that driver that thinks he is doing you a favor by going offline before giving you the point by.

disden

my thoughts evactly. I track my RS, it’s easy to see. After the first few sessions,as most people are more focused on learning the track, everyone eventually knows what cars are quicker/slower and it all tends to work itself out. First few sessions, points are few and late. As day goes on it’s much smoother.

LuigiVampa

The flip side of this conversation is that people get nervous and sometimes gravitate to the groups and regions that are not as tough on which run group you drive in. No one likes to be demoted so I think a big part of the problem is with people not being honest with themselves about their ability.

ProCoach

Bingo. This is pretty common, especially with drivers that have good competence on ONE or TWO tracks, when they go to a new place.

Most of the folks I work with are pretty realistic and would rather be looking ahead than behind.