Are the various HPDE groups being strict enough moving people down and banning them?
10-16-2017, 10:57 AM
#31
Seen this plenty of times; late point by and no lift. They don't seem to realize that on short straights that turns into an expanding passing (in the turns) scenario not allowed in that run group. I personally have problems in trusting those drivers in a turn and usually get on the brakes to let them go. Or my other favorite is that they go off line directly in front of you and take away all your momentum, then give you the point by and wonder why you can't get passed them (emphasis in drivers meeting was all passes are offline and to be passed car stays online).
10-16-2017, 11:09 AM
#32
Some event organizers my way actually put a recommended lap time per run group when people are signing up. i find this helps for people who are new to the group and/or the particular track.
Obviously, it can get certain run groups to be over or under subscribed, in turn causing less then the maximum or break even point of cars for the organizers.
People who drive slow cars fast are generally the ones who get frustrated. At a track like COTA, I don't think anyone with a fast car who drives slow will show any mercy on the back and front straight. I doubt they'll let you pass there and if you are holding them up then they will take the opportunity to pass you.
Usually, in the later sessions of the day it sorts itself out anyways.
Obviously, it can get certain run groups to be over or under subscribed, in turn causing less then the maximum or break even point of cars for the organizers.
People who drive slow cars fast are generally the ones who get frustrated. At a track like COTA, I don't think anyone with a fast car who drives slow will show any mercy on the back and front straight. I doubt they'll let you pass there and if you are holding them up then they will take the opportunity to pass you.
Usually, in the later sessions of the day it sorts itself out anyways.
10-16-2017, 11:11 AM
#33
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I ran into this exact situation this past weekend at Lightning. I was "that guy".
I was just moved up one run group right before this event.
I had never run Lightning before. It was a "new to me" track.
After the first session the first morning while I was trying to learn the line, I knew I was holding people up, even though I was giving point by's at every possible chance when called for.
After the first session, I asked my instructor if we could move back into the run group I was previously in until I learned the line. I knew that first session wasn't fair to my friends who already knew the track and my new run group was combined with an even higher run group this weekend compounding the issue.
I knew before it even started that I was going to be "that guy", so I asked my instructor if we could move back to my previous run group until I learned the line.
That's what we did, and once I felt confident with the line and my driving ability on a "new" track, we moved back into the run group I was in originally (the higher run group.)
Things went much better from there.
I took it upon myself to ask to be moved back a run group until I was somewhat confident that I learned the line.
It made for a better weekend for everyone in all 3 run groups.
I felt really horrible that I held up the folks in the higher run group during that first session, so I took it upon myself to ask to be moved back one run group.
It made for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone, including myself.
If you know you are in the wrong run group, or in the right run group but at a new to you track, just ask to moved back a run group until you are comfortable with the line and the speed of the higher run group.
I did apologize to the folks I held up in the first session (even though I was giving every possible point by), and they all said not to worry about it, it's just a learning experience.
I moved back a run group anyway as it was the right thing to do. Once I was comfortable with the "new to me line and track", I moved back to the higher run group and I think it was much better for everyone.
All ya gotta do is ask to be moved back a run group, and all will be well.
I knew it was the right thing to do by the way I felt humbled after that first session.
I never felt that before, so I took it upon myself to do the right thing.
Then I was no longer "that guy".
I was just moved up one run group right before this event.
I had never run Lightning before. It was a "new to me" track.
After the first session the first morning while I was trying to learn the line, I knew I was holding people up, even though I was giving point by's at every possible chance when called for.
After the first session, I asked my instructor if we could move back into the run group I was previously in until I learned the line. I knew that first session wasn't fair to my friends who already knew the track and my new run group was combined with an even higher run group this weekend compounding the issue.
I knew before it even started that I was going to be "that guy", so I asked my instructor if we could move back to my previous run group until I learned the line.
That's what we did, and once I felt confident with the line and my driving ability on a "new" track, we moved back into the run group I was in originally (the higher run group.)
Things went much better from there.
I took it upon myself to ask to be moved back a run group until I was somewhat confident that I learned the line.
It made for a better weekend for everyone in all 3 run groups.
I felt really horrible that I held up the folks in the higher run group during that first session, so I took it upon myself to ask to be moved back one run group.
It made for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone, including myself.
If you know you are in the wrong run group, or in the right run group but at a new to you track, just ask to moved back a run group until you are comfortable with the line and the speed of the higher run group.
I did apologize to the folks I held up in the first session (even though I was giving every possible point by), and they all said not to worry about it, it's just a learning experience.
I moved back a run group anyway as it was the right thing to do. Once I was comfortable with the "new to me line and track", I moved back to the higher run group and I think it was much better for everyone.
All ya gotta do is ask to be moved back a run group, and all will be well.
I knew it was the right thing to do by the way I felt humbled after that first session.
I never felt that before, so I took it upon myself to do the right thing.
Then I was no longer "that guy".
10-16-2017, 11:21 AM
#34
Rennlist Member
That's great!
The folks who are humble get it and do that sort of thing.
Those who think that they are God's gift ad all that don't...and won't.
The folks who are humble get it and do that sort of thing.
Those who think that they are God's gift ad all that don't...and won't.
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 10-16-2017 at 11:48 AM.
10-16-2017, 11:53 AM
#36
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I ran into this exact situation this past weekend at Lightning. I was "that guy".
All ya gotta do is ask to be moved back a run group, and all will be well.
I knew it was the right thing to do by the way I felt humbled after that first session.
I never felt that before, so I took it upon myself to do the right thing.
Then I was no longer "that guy".
All ya gotta do is ask to be moved back a run group, and all will be well.
I knew it was the right thing to do by the way I felt humbled after that first session.
I never felt that before, so I took it upon myself to do the right thing.
Then I was no longer "that guy".
Maybe this should be posted on the Corvette and Mustang forums?? I kid, I kid!
10-16-2017, 11:57 AM
#37
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I ran into this exact situation this past weekend at Lightning. I was "that guy".
I was just moved up one run group right before this event.
I had never run Lightning before. It was a "new to me" track.
It made for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone, including myself.
Once I was comfortable with the "new to me line and track", I moved back to the higher run group and I think it was much better for everyone.
All ya gotta do is ask to be moved back a run group, and all will be well.
I knew it was the right thing to do by the way I felt humbled after that first session.
I never felt that before, so I took it upon myself to do the right thing.
Then I was no longer "that guy".
I was just moved up one run group right before this event.
I had never run Lightning before. It was a "new to me" track.
It made for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone, including myself.
Once I was comfortable with the "new to me line and track", I moved back to the higher run group and I think it was much better for everyone.
All ya gotta do is ask to be moved back a run group, and all will be well.
I knew it was the right thing to do by the way I felt humbled after that first session.
I never felt that before, so I took it upon myself to do the right thing.
Then I was no longer "that guy".
This used to be MUCH MORE common than now.
Perhaps organizers could validate and endorse this approach by suggesting it and being open to it in publications and meetings.
Thanks for posting.
__________________
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Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
-Peter Krause
www.peterkrause.net
www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
10-16-2017, 12:34 PM
#38
Addict
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HPDE is a business. Track fees need to be paid for, so there is a fine line between turning paying customers away, kicking them out and managing the frustrations of others. Some organizations are much better with that than others.
If the organization does not enforce basic safety rules and shows no action when you raise them you have two choices: a) get involved in the organization and look to make a difference, or b) take your money elsewhere....
If the way the organization handles promotions/demotions and people that don't point by unprofessionally, then you have those same two choices. Remember that DE is supposed to be fun and that you have choices. This is the same as racers complaining that each class should have their own run group. Basic economic considerations will just not allow that to happen.
If the organization does not enforce basic safety rules and shows no action when you raise them you have two choices: a) get involved in the organization and look to make a difference, or b) take your money elsewhere....
If the way the organization handles promotions/demotions and people that don't point by unprofessionally, then you have those same two choices. Remember that DE is supposed to be fun and that you have choices. This is the same as racers complaining that each class should have their own run group. Basic economic considerations will just not allow that to happen.
10-16-2017, 12:37 PM
#39
I help run Black Flag at COTA PCA events
You can not do anything on track with out being seen on CCTV, control alerts us of problem cars and we ask control to BF them
We also have our BF advanced instructor crew run in each run group to make sure everyone is playing nice
One thing you do not want to do is pass one of these guys without a point by. or being too aggressive. We will find you, and we have taken run session away
All these concerns are addressed at every drivers meeting but some cowboys never learn, VR can attest to that
Also if we make a mistake, we review what happened with control, and let the drivers know, our bad
You can not do anything on track with out being seen on CCTV, control alerts us of problem cars and we ask control to BF them
We also have our BF advanced instructor crew run in each run group to make sure everyone is playing nice
One thing you do not want to do is pass one of these guys without a point by. or being too aggressive. We will find you, and we have taken run session away
All these concerns are addressed at every drivers meeting but some cowboys never learn, VR can attest to that
Also if we make a mistake, we review what happened with control, and let the drivers know, our bad
10-16-2017, 02:04 PM
#40
Burning Brakes
Kevin - are you really crying about not having any horsepower when your car only weighs 2200 lbs. LOL.
It is hard to run TT and come back to DE rules. It is even harder coming back from W2W racing to DE especially if you drive a Spec Miata at a horsepower track.
From what I have heard, PCA really plans to work with control to deal with the train offenders. I'm not sure if you are worried about this event or are talking about other organizations.
Oh, and your car will break anyway, so it'll all be good. 👍
It is hard to run TT and come back to DE rules. It is even harder coming back from W2W racing to DE especially if you drive a Spec Miata at a horsepower track.
From what I have heard, PCA really plans to work with control to deal with the train offenders. I'm not sure if you are worried about this event or are talking about other organizations.
Oh, and your car will break anyway, so it'll all be good. 👍
10-16-2017, 02:04 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
Yep. You'll recall me reading the riot act to some there last March in the morning meeting, and inviting them to leave if they didn't like our event rules and policies.
Boy was that fun!!!!
Boy was that fun!!!!
10-16-2017, 02:09 PM
#42
Kevin - are you really crying about not having any horsepower when your car only weighs 2200 lbs. LOL.
It is hard to run TT and come back to DE rules. It is even harder coming back from W2W racing to DE especially if you drive a Spec Miata at a horsepower track.
From what I have heard, PCA really plans to work with control to deal with the train offenders. I'm not sure if you are worried about this event or are talking about other organizations.
Oh, and your car will break anyway, so it'll all be good. 👍
It is hard to run TT and come back to DE rules. It is even harder coming back from W2W racing to DE especially if you drive a Spec Miata at a horsepower track.
From what I have heard, PCA really plans to work with control to deal with the train offenders. I'm not sure if you are worried about this event or are talking about other organizations.
Oh, and your car will break anyway, so it'll all be good. 👍
I have never been to a PCA event, so I am just talking in general.
10-16-2017, 02:18 PM
#43
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10-16-2017, 02:24 PM
#44
Gary
10-16-2017, 02:31 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by ProCoach
hah! Surprised you didnt pull
out the M249!
out the M249!
Since these people are used to seeing me do the advanced classroom, none had ever seen me pissed off. It woke them up and was very effective. Behaviors changed immediately.
I hope I get to do it again next month!
