Are the various HPDE groups being strict enough moving people down and banning them?
#16
Three Wheelin'
Regardless of the three issues I saw once a way of organizing at Sebring that I quite liked.
They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.
After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?
They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.
After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?
#18
Regardless of the three issues I saw once a way of organizing at Sebring that I quite liked.
They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.
After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?
They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.
After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?
By definition a DE is not a timed event. So you now deal with people/cars that may or may not see/pass each other on track. And then you have those from out of region that have never driven the track.
#19
Rennlist Member
As you say it is not a timed event, but I will bet that 95% of the cars in the upper run group are using some type of data acquisition that includes lap times.
What you often see in some of these HPDE are what I call social promotion to the next class, They are moved up due to the cars abilities not their own.
#20
Three Wheelin'
Move the lower HP cars into the appropriate group at registration. Get the rolling chicanes with attitude out of the way.
Prototype cars should be exempt.
High speed cornering and train creating cars would be eliminated from the high speed groups.
Prototype cars should be exempt.
High speed cornering and train creating cars would be eliminated from the high speed groups.
#21
I like how Niagara PCA did it with their advanced solo track event. They had two groups, both advanced solo drivers - slow cars and fast cars. You could go out in any group but each group "owned" the track for the 30 minute interval they were assigned. My track car will do 2:02's at WGI which is pretty fast. But I went with a new to me stock 991 on RE71r's still with paper plates. I ran in the slow group for that event. I had fun and I don't believe I held anyone up.
#22
The people who have never been to a track IMHO should be moved down 1 level for the morning sessions so they can figure breaking points, turn in points best apex for their driving style etc.
As you say it is not a timed event, but I will bet that 95% of the cars in the upper run group are using some type of data acquisition that includes lap times.
What you often see in some of these HPDE are what I call social promotion to the next class, They are moved up due to the cars abilities not their own.
As you say it is not a timed event, but I will bet that 95% of the cars in the upper run group are using some type of data acquisition that includes lap times.
What you often see in some of these HPDE are what I call social promotion to the next class, They are moved up due to the cars abilities not their own.
You open that can of worms and now you are taking the risk of possibly running afoul of the insurance, etc.
On top of that you are asking for a shuffling based on time between groups that is variable. In a case like COTA which is sold out you are now advocating a lot of additional work for the volunteers.
#23
Rennlist Member
Part of the challenge of COTA specifically is not so much track design...
Rather, it's that it really seems to appeal to some folks with outsized egos who assume wallet + HP = talent and entitlement. This leads to the problem the OP outlined.
That said, since COTA is by far the most expensive track to rent in North America, event organizers are under enormous financial pressure to attract and retain numbers. IMO this hinders the normal weeding out process of the arseholes that happens at many other "destination" tracks like Daytona and the Glen.
JMHO
Rather, it's that it really seems to appeal to some folks with outsized egos who assume wallet + HP = talent and entitlement. This leads to the problem the OP outlined.
That said, since COTA is by far the most expensive track to rent in North America, event organizers are under enormous financial pressure to attract and retain numbers. IMO this hinders the normal weeding out process of the arseholes that happens at many other "destination" tracks like Daytona and the Glen.
JMHO
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 10-16-2017 at 09:30 AM.
#24
2. People in the top run group who are ~ 20+ seconds off the pace. Sure it's ok if you are in a spec miata @ COTA and you are just slow, but if you are hauling *** through the turns you don't really hold anything up.
3. People who won't point by. I am sure this is a problem everywhere, but there are always people who take most of a lap to point you by or build up a big ole train. I think this is the biggest one, but why are they not getting black flagged.
3. People who won't point by. I am sure this is a problem everywhere, but there are always people who take most of a lap to point you by or build up a big ole train. I think this is the biggest one, but why are they not getting black flagged.
Ran into #3 this past Friday--normally people soon get the hint if they look in their mirrors and see 8 or so cars lined up behind them and/or see blue flags at every station, but this individual did not and was eventually black-flagged as enough people did drive-throughs to get away from him and alerted pit officials to the situation.
Gary
#25
Three Wheelin'
you are faster than the cars you pass and the cars passing you are faster than you
also if you are in a stock 944 that GT3 with race seats or cup car is likely going to be faster. Additionally there is no rule against talking and asking....
as stated elsewhere most know their approx. laptimes.
if someone runs typically a 2:10 and you are typically in the 2:20 range you are slower
after 2 sessions I typically know who is faster or slower than me and I dont need to ask them or announce my times...
#26
Three Wheelin'
Regardless of the three issues I saw once a way of organizing at Sebring that I quite liked.
They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.
After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?
They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.
After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?
this is not about lining up in different run groups based on laptimes this is about seeding yourself WITHIN the run group
#27
Even if you say you cant ask times because it isn't a race and your insurance doesnt allow it. You could still ask people to self police. If you are in a stock Z4 on all seasons and are lapping in the low 3's and you find yourself in HPDE4/white etc. Maybe you don't need to be the VERY first car out EVERY session.....
When i line up on grid and I see that most of the other cars are Ferrari challenge cars, cup cars, radicals, etc I line up WAY at the back, and I enjoy passing the few cars that I can, why would you NOT have this attitude?
#29
A pet peeve is folks that let only 1 car buy in each passing zone regardless of the length of the train... I guess they don't want to slow down too much and "ruin" their lap
I run with one guy that drives a track miata with PCA in the White Intermediate Solo, he goes to grid 15 minutes early I believe so he can get at least a few laps of clear track before he catches the backmarkers. The reason he has to do this is because he can barely get any point bys when he catches slower drivers in faster cars. Many of them think that if they can roar away every time they get to a straight, that they are legitimately faster, and they don't point. Or if they do, they don't lift and leave him in the dust, until the next corner that is. I track a 986 Boxster that is relatively underpowered for a "modern" Porsche so I feel your pain. #yunoletmepass
#30
I've seen way too many wait until the final call to grid because they are busy in a discussion, in the porta potty, etc. Then there are those cases where grid space is limited and hard to see who is lining up where.