MarcD147

Regardless of the three issues I saw once a way of organizing at Sebring that I quite liked.

They gave guidance on where to line up based on laptimes and then asked people to self police and in subsequent line up behind faster people.

After a session or two it was sorted and it resulted in most having a clean track for quite a while.
Am surprised not more clubs use this?

FGL28

Did you send a not to the PCA Auto Chair on originzating the event. They might not know about it and need a nudge towards dothing things difference.

ExMB

By definition a DE is not a timed event. So you now deal with people/cars that may or may not see/pass each other on track. And then you have those from out of region that have never driven the track.

rlm328

The people who have never been to a track IMHO should be moved down 1 level for the morning sessions so they can figure breaking points, turn in points best apex for their driving style etc.

As you say it is not a timed event, but I will bet that 95% of the cars in the upper run group are using some type of data acquisition that includes lap times.

What you often see in some of these HPDE are what I call social promotion to the next class, They are moved up due to the cars abilities not their own.

Sir5n

Move the lower HP cars into the appropriate group at registration. Get the rolling chicanes with attitude out of the way.

Prototype cars should be exempt.

High speed cornering and train creating cars would be eliminated from the high speed groups.

Thundermoose

I like how Niagara PCA did it with their advanced solo track event. They had two groups, both advanced solo drivers - slow cars and fast cars. You could go out in any group but each group "owned" the track for the 30 minute interval they were assigned. My track car will do 2:02's at WGI which is pretty fast. But I went with a new to me stock 991 on RE71r's still with paper plates. I ran in the slow group for that event. I had fun and I don't believe I held anyone up.

ExMB

Be that as it may in regards to timing equipment (AIM, phone, etc). Now you are asking the event coordinators to collect (historical?) data from each and then place them on grid in a certain order as suggested by MarcD147. That is akin to a clubrace and NOT a DE. What about the fast ones that don't have/use timing equipment?
You open that can of worms and now you are taking the risk of possibly running afoul of the insurance, etc.

On top of that you are asking for a shuffling based on time between groups that is variable. In a case like COTA which is sold out you are now advocating a lot of additional work for the volunteers.

Veloce Raptor

Part of the challenge of COTA specifically is not so much track design...
Rather, it's that it really seems to appeal to some folks with outsized egos who assume wallet + HP = talent and entitlement. This leads to the problem the OP outlined.
That said, since COTA is by far the most expensive track to rent in North America, event organizers are under enormous financial pressure to attract and retain numbers. IMO this hinders the normal weeding out process of the arseholes that happens at many other "destination" tracks like Daytona and the Glen.

JMHO

gbuff

Regarding #2, I have a low-hp car and regularly run in the top run groups--it's all about situational awareness and getting people by you as quickly as possible so both of you can get on with it. I have done many events with groups determined by hp and have found that it works well, but these are mostly lapping days with only two groups and not the 4 or 5 in a "normal" DE.

Ran into #3 this past Friday--normally people soon get the hint if they look in their mirrors and see 8 or so cars lined up behind them and/or see blue flags at every station, but this individual did not and was eventually black-flagged as enough people did drive-throughs to get away from him and alerted pit officials to the situation.

Gary

MarcD147

you dont need to time....
you are faster than the cars you pass and the cars passing you are faster than you

also if you are in a stock 944 that GT3 with race seats or cup car is likely going to be faster. Additionally there is no rule against talking and asking....

as stated elsewhere most know their approx. laptimes.

if someone runs typically a 2:10 and you are typically in the 2:20 range you are slower

after 2 sessions I typically know who is faster or slower than me and I dont need to ask them or announce my times...

MarcD147

to clarify myself:
this is not about lining up in different run groups based on laptimes this is about seeding yourself WITHIN the run group

Kevin Fennell

I have to say that I guess this is what would be the single biggest thing that could be changed.

Even if you say you cant ask times because it isn't a race and your insurance doesnt allow it. You could still ask people to self police. If you are in a stock Z4 on all seasons and are lapping in the low 3's and you find yourself in HPDE4/white etc. Maybe you don't need to be the VERY first car out EVERY session.....

When i line up on grid and I see that most of the other cars are Ferrari challenge cars, cup cars, radicals, etc I line up WAY at the back, and I enjoy passing the few cars that I can, why would you NOT have this attitude?

Veloce Raptor

But there is always that one person who just HAS to be first in line every time...

steved0x

Me too, after 2-3 sessions it is easy to figure out where to grid to make things go more smoothly. It is more fun with clear track, or if you're catching and passing folks. Getting stuck in a train isn't really the only not fun part.

A pet peeve is folks that let only 1 car buy in each passing zone regardless of the length of the train... I guess they don't want to slow down too much and "ruin" their lap


I run with one guy that drives a track miata with PCA in the White Intermediate Solo, he goes to grid 15 minutes early I believe so he can get at least a few laps of clear track before he catches the backmarkers. The reason he has to do this is because he can barely get any point bys when he catches slower drivers in faster cars. Many of them think that if they can roar away every time they get to a straight, that they are legitimately faster, and they don't point. Or if they do, they don't lift and leave him in the dust, until the next corner that is. I track a 986 Boxster that is relatively underpowered for a "modern" Porsche so I feel your pain. #yunoletmepass

ExMB

This. Seen it plenty of times where a Boxster or Cayman chases down a GT3 or vette and won't get a pass.

I've seen way too many wait until the final call to grid because they are busy in a discussion, in the porta potty, etc. Then there are those cases where grid space is limited and hard to see who is lining up where.