Kevin Fennell

I want to start a conversation about this topic, without naming any person or group I feel like there are three problems in Texas HPDE days currently.

1. There are a few people every day that don't care about the rules and are just passing whenever they want because they have more HP. no matter that I am 5 seconds a lap faster then you, you can't wait one straightaway at COTA and let me get away after that, have to pass me back with no point by. I don't know if these people are getting banned or not, but they should be, I report them every time, but I feel like it happens every track day.

2. People in the top run group who are ~ 20+ seconds off the pace. Sure it's ok if you are in a spec miata @ COTA and you are just slow, but if you are hauling *** through the turns you don't really hold anything up. If you are putting around doing 3:10s in a convertible enjoying your day la de da, you are making it dangerous for everyone else with the monstrous closing speeds.

3. People who won't point by. I am sure this is a problem everywhere, but there are always people who take most of a lap to point you by or build up a big ole train. I think this is the biggest one, but why are they not getting black flagged. It should be automatic. End of first hot lap if you have 5 cars behind you you get black flagged! If you are not that fast why are you starting at the front anyways, try to grid yourself appropriately!!!


In summary I wish that the HPDE managers were very very heavy handed dealing with the three issues above. I know it's not a "race" but there should be some level of pushing the car that is required for the top run group. If you break 1 or 3 you should have to sit out 1+++ sessions.

Does anyone disagree?

Thundermoose

This seems to be more prevalent at COTA possibly because of configuration and typically high car counts. At most tracks, this usually sorts itself out by afternoon.

We had a driver at PDS moved down a group. He was pretty far off pace for the car he was driving but typically good about point by's. He was/is a super nice guy so hard to get mad it him.

Kevin Fennell

I think some of the problem is these people are "nice guys" or well known. I get that and I don't want to be mad at them, but wouldn't EVERYONE be having more fun i certain people were down 1 or 2 groups?

DTMiller

I recommended that a guy be moved down a run group this year because he was causing trains and needed the slower pace and more room of the next group down to work on some stuff. He took it well and I rode with him in the lower run group and he agreed it was the right move after the fact. It wasn't a super fun conversation to have with him but it went ok.

Banning/parking guys is above my pay grade.

Texas RS

Kevin,

What groups have you run with and who do you normally run with?

Kevin Fennell

I don't want to name anyone or any groups specifically, but all in TX. Half of the time at COTA.

Spyerx

PCa San Diego, pca ggr, speed district, and POc are all quite good about this.

LuigiVampa

People should know enough to know they need to work on their skill set or know they are causing trains.

When I bring my 944 to the track I demote myself out of the instructor run group just because most of the instructors are extremely fast. I don't have to do this. No one told me to do this. It also makes my day more enjoyable.

If someone gets demoted, and it is a shock to them, they are further behind than anyone realizes.

Kevin Fennell

I know this, you know this, why don't the people causing trains know this?!!!

ShakeNBake

It's not really a race....better to keep it fun and friendly than point fingers. I know it's a "race" in TT...but this is not TT. YOu can get a clear track if you get on with some of the private get togethers that happen at COTA.

The only people I see banned regularly are those who put others in danger, or those who have an attitude that everyone get the F' out of their way.

Kevin Fennell

What are you trying to say? It's ok to not point people by for 10 corners? Or it doesn't matter how slow you are, you deserve to be in white group after 50 track days?

I know it's not a race and that I don't own the track. At COTA in the fast groups I give a many point bys as I get due to low HP. I don't think i am asking too much to expect everyone in a certain group to have the same goals?

ShakeNBake

I think there are always going to be people who are overwhelmed with a track they are learning, or those who get frustrated with no open space to explore their 900HP beasts. COTA is a bad design for HPDEs, which makes this all worse. It's unlikely to change, so if that removes fun, then you might be in for less fun - or step up and run the event your way. I do get annoyed by all of the issues you point out, as every warm blooded DE'er does - I totally feel your pain.

Kevin Fennell

So we are pretty much on the same page then. I just want those people, who have made a mistake on what run group they are in to either voluntarily step back a group, or to be asked to step back. I know that not everyone is going to be on the same driving level, even the first time I wen't to COTA I was placed in the wrong run group (speed ventures top group), I realized it before I went out and we moved down a group. I spent the whole weekend wondering if I was even cut out for orange it was so fast! I realize that if you are new that COTA is huge an intimidating, but after one session of giving ~100 point bys why not back up a group and everyone can have more fun.

Maybe the problem is that people don't realize that this is an option? Maybe it should be a focus of the day 1 meetings?

ExMB

The title seem to talk in general but when you start reading its all about COTA.

Kevin Fennell

Its closest to the house, please yalk about what your run group does well or not?