Jack-Porsche

I would like to add to my post earlier in the thread. While the Simger, by definition , is a resto-mod....it's an unbelievable piece of machinery that could more accurately be described as a coach built Porsche.
I recently received the Singer book "1 more than 10". What goes into these vehicles is amazing.
If you have the means, this would certainly be a one of a kind dream ride.
That said, something like the new 911R would also be great to have...an instant classic that already has a place in the collectible world of Porsche.

Robert Linton

Please please tell me what goes into these vehicles that's so extraordinary? Can you give me five specific examples?

superquant

perhaps you should spend the $60 and get the book, read it, and then let us know. Or if you would like I will buy it for you, PM me the address to send it to.

Given the amount of ongoing effort you are expending on this topic it seems like something you would do if you were actually interested in learning about the cars rather than the weird, half antagonistic naysayer questions you keep throwing out.

Jack-Porsche

If you are referring to my post, I will respectfully say that I have earned my degree and will not be completing your homework assignment.
I would highly recommend that you purchase the same book and see for yourself.
Having the opportunity to own and drive many resto-mod vehicles, I can simply say that there are many degrees to which a vehicle can become a "resto-mod". Many resto-mod's, even some at the higher end, use a lot of off the shelf items.
In learning more about Singer and their process, the absolute level of tedious craftsmanship and detail that goes in to each build is quite impressive. Each build is tailored to the owner, and that is why I refer to it more in line with custom coach building. Like any bespoke item, be it shoes, suits, etc....you pay a premium for this level of craftsmanship, but It is clear that Singer is not cutting corners in their process.

Robert Linton

Neither "weird", nor "half antagonistic" or antagonistic questions, just trying to understand specifics. And every time I ask for specificity, all I get is but the "vice of vagueness". I should be able to afford it so I will order the book.

Robert Linton

Well, I have ordered the book as no one will give any specificity other than that a Singer looks very nice with which I agree. Please understand I am simply trying to learn. BTW, I, too, have managed to earn a degree; indeed, even more than one.

P.S. I hope my $95 is well spent and gives me the answers I have been seeking. I feel a bit like the pilgrim hoping to make progress. With apologies to Mr. Milton.

Jack-Porsche

I have multiple as well...I wasn't asking you to complete a home work assignment..
Glad you ordered the book. I'm pretty confident, if you judge objectively, you will agree that these vehicles are pretty special.

Robert Linton

I'll be objective from an engineering point of view. BTW, I am sure your degrees are far more impressive than are my own.

CAlexio

If you look at a singer up close, you can see that while the underlining mechanics are pretty much standard 90's 964, the time and money was spent perfecting what's there, and amplifying the visual the details.

If I may, the schism & sarcasm I sense on this thread comes from a fundamental difference in what one person values in a vehicle over another.. Robert seems to appreciate the more intrinsic engineering & mechanical innovations in materials and architecture, of which the singer admittedly has few.. Whereas some of the rest of us tend to gravitate more towards the easier to appreciate visual details and materials.

The opposite end of the spectrum from a singer could be a machine like the mclaren f1.. Pure technical innovation with relatively little regard given to coach-built finishes.

now, if a company wants to create a vehicle which has some of both of these attributes, then the cars like a koenigsegg or Pagani come to mind. Where from the suspension architecture to innovative drivetrain solutions to the leather and gold-leaf paint options, every single part is engineered and finished with both engineering innovation and coach built beauty in mind... Most Of The time you get one or the other.

Bringing it back to singer.. They are doing a collaborations with williams f1, and will be coming out with a $1M+ machine which will incorporate very high level drivetrain and suspension modifications, together with the aesthetic detailing & style singer has become known for. Maybe that will be a car all of us can coalesce around.

Watch that space... Will be a very very unique machine.

Robert Linton

I hope Williams' new enginerring group will also reinstall the airbags that Singer removed. I await this new Williams for Singer Porsche.

Robert Linton

I bought the Singer book. What is in it that I should read or see other than yet another one in a well choreographed series of self promotions?

Jack-Porsche

have you read it? Have you read all of the endorsements from very well respected people in the automotive world who sing the praises of these cars? Have you read each section explaining what goes into these cars from body to mechanics?
Of course there is a self promotion aspect...it is a book about a company, written for the company, and sold by the company. Can you name a book like this which doesn't have self promotion and marketing in mind?
Look, I'm not sure if maybe Rob Dickinson snubbed you at a party, or there is some personal connection, but maybe these cars just aren't for you. That's perfectly fine if that's the case, but it is apparent that many well respected automotive professionals, and wealthy consumers, disagree. I don't know what more you are looking for, or are trying to achieve, by the smug attitude as it pertains to Singer.
I would be happy to Take the book off your hands since you see no value in it. I wouldn't mind having a copy for my office.

Cheers

Robert Linton

Please do not misunderstand me. I like Rob Dickinson. I like the Singer car. I think it is a very good resto-mod. I like 964s. But, at the end of the day, the Singer is a 964 with a body kit representing one person's view of what a Porsche might have looked like, an interior that is a matter of taste (I like it), a more powerful motor and a variety of pieces better (or at least shinier) than the original (and some components that are original or close to original). There is simply nothing I see that evokes the almost mystical status its PR campaign has evoked. It is, after all, a very good tuner car and I respect that and I respect the builders. But, please, permit me to express my opinion that it is, basically, a "reimagined" 964, a car I like better than few others. And, when, for example, after Singer takes a 964, changes its look, reduces its weight by hundreds of pounds and adds approximately 143 HP, the car goes 176 MPH, there is nothing magical, it is only physics. Indeed, I wonder how fast a 964 would have gone with its original body panels, an equal amount of weight removed and the same approximately 143 additional HP. (And years earlier, with an even older Porsche body, less weight and more HP, went in excess of 200 MPH.)


P.S. If I knew anyone looking for a well done Porsche resto-mod, I would recommend they look at Singer.

Jack-Porsche

Okay, I still don't get what your point is. You have every right to express your opinion, it just seems you are spending a lot of energy trying to convince other people that these cars are not worthy of the credit they have received....why?
You said they are basically a reimagined 964, and a good resto-mod. The same things you are saying here could be said about any car ever....it's just a car!
The company itself says that these are 911's reimagined by them. There are no claims beyond that, nor is there any snake oil being sold.
Again, what's the point of your many posts trying to convince people that these cars aren't special?
I may not see the value in buying a $5,000 bespoke suit vs a $1200 Brooks Brother suit, but I'm not on a clothing forum trying to convince those people that it isn't worth the money.
Driving a car is a visceral experience....if this car sparks the kind of reactions that it has, that's a good thing, right?
If people who have driven one of these feel that it is a "magical" experience, what is the point in trying to convince them that it isn't?

JG 996T

Singer is new kid in town.

RUF is legend.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-show...c=social-email

http://ruf-automobile.de/en/modell/ruf-scr-4-2/

https://rennlist.com/forums/993-foru...at-geneva.html

Should also consider 997 RS 4.0.