CGT Prices
01-11-2018, 01:51 PM
#2461
Drifting
01-11-2018, 02:41 PM
#2462
Burning Brakes
Speaking of the youtube video, It's really impressive he does not stall the car while driving it this way. He's really good. I guess that's why he was (is) a professional race car driver, cuz that's not nearly as easy as it looks.
I'd love to do that in my car but I'm too chicken I'd wear the clutch down.
I'd love to do that in my car but I'm too chicken I'd wear the clutch down.
01-11-2018, 03:57 PM
#2463
01-11-2018, 07:02 PM
#2465
Rennlist Member
It says his name in the title of the video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christijan_Albers
Christijan Albers (
Christijan Albers (help·info)) (born 16 April 1979 in Eindhoven) is a Dutch professional racing driver. After success in the DTM he drove in Formula One from 2005until the 2007 British Grand Prix, shortly after which he was dropped by the Spyker F1 team.[1] In 2008, he returned to the DTM series as a driver for the Audi Futurecom TME team. Albers acted as Team Principal and CEO of the Caterham F1 Team from July to September 2014 after it was acquired by new team owners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christijan_Albers
Christijan Albers (
Christijan Albers (help·info)) (born 16 April 1979 in Eindhoven) is a Dutch professional racing driver. After success in the DTM he drove in Formula One from 2005until the 2007 British Grand Prix, shortly after which he was dropped by the Spyker F1 team.[1] In 2008, he returned to the DTM series as a driver for the Audi Futurecom TME team. Albers acted as Team Principal and CEO of the Caterham F1 Team from July to September 2014 after it was acquired by new team owners.
01-11-2018, 11:56 PM
#2466
Drifting
It says his name in the title of the video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christijan_Albers
Christijan Albers ( Christijan Albers (help·info)) (born 16 April 1979 in Eindhoven) is a Dutch professional racing driver. After success in the DTM he drove in Formula One from 2005until the 2007 British Grand Prix, shortly after which he was dropped by the Spyker F1 team.[1] In 2008, he returned to the DTM series as a driver for the Audi Futurecom TME team. Albers acted as Team Principal and CEO of the Caterham F1 Team from July to September 2014 after it was acquired by new team owners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christijan_Albers
Christijan Albers (
Christijan Albers (help·info)) (born 16 April 1979 in Eindhoven) is a Dutch professional racing driver. After success in the DTM he drove in Formula One from 2005until the 2007 British Grand Prix, shortly after which he was dropped by the Spyker F1 team.[1] In 2008, he returned to the DTM series as a driver for the Audi Futurecom TME team. Albers acted as Team Principal and CEO of the Caterham F1 Team from July to September 2014 after it was acquired by new team owners.Last edited by nuvolari612; 01-12-2018 at 12:24 AM.
01-12-2018, 12:30 AM
#2467
Burning Brakes
It says his name in the title of the video.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christijan_Albers
Christijan Albers ( Christijan Albers (help·info)) (born 16 April 1979 in Eindhoven) is a Dutch professional racing driver. After success in the DTM he drove in Formula One from 2005until the 2007 British Grand Prix, shortly after which he was dropped by the Spyker F1 team.[1] In 2008, he returned to the DTM series as a driver for the Audi Futurecom TME team. Albers acted as Team Principal and CEO of the Caterham F1 Team from July to September 2014 after it was acquired by new team owners.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christijan_Albers
Christijan Albers (
Christijan Albers (help·info)) (born 16 April 1979 in Eindhoven) is a Dutch professional racing driver. After success in the DTM he drove in Formula One from 2005until the 2007 British Grand Prix, shortly after which he was dropped by the Spyker F1 team.[1] In 2008, he returned to the DTM series as a driver for the Audi Futurecom TME team. Albers acted as Team Principal and CEO of the Caterham F1 Team from July to September 2014 after it was acquired by new team owners.
01-12-2018, 10:35 AM
#2468
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Edit: this is way OT. I should post in a separate thread.
I've driven a CGT once a while back and was just super deliberate about letting the ECU auto clutch engagement feature do its thing. I took off like a grandma every time. However, to me, it's almost 2nd nature to give a little throttle blip right before clutch gets in the zone where it grabs. On a cgt (once warm), does that work if you manually blip it before it grabs? Is it suggested that you only use ECU clutch engagement every time? Does the ECU auto-engage still happen if you blip the throttle; meaning u can't stop the auto-blip/engage fr happening regardless?
I know I just need to get behind the wheel and feel it out. I'm not a heel/toe god but I'm pretty decent getting the most difficult clutches to engage well in 1st (not rocket science if you've driven a lot of older and/or LWFW vehicles; it's just feel from experience).
I'm curious if everyone used the ECU auto clutch engage or if people get the hang of it enough that they engage 1st manually (or if that's even possible with the ECU programming)?
I've driven a CGT once a while back and was just super deliberate about letting the ECU auto clutch engagement feature do its thing. I took off like a grandma every time. However, to me, it's almost 2nd nature to give a little throttle blip right before clutch gets in the zone where it grabs. On a cgt (once warm), does that work if you manually blip it before it grabs? Is it suggested that you only use ECU clutch engagement every time? Does the ECU auto-engage still happen if you blip the throttle; meaning u can't stop the auto-blip/engage fr happening regardless?
I know I just need to get behind the wheel and feel it out. I'm not a heel/toe god but I'm pretty decent getting the most difficult clutches to engage well in 1st (not rocket science if you've driven a lot of older and/or LWFW vehicles; it's just feel from experience).
I'm curious if everyone used the ECU auto clutch engage or if people get the hang of it enough that they engage 1st manually (or if that's even possible with the ECU programming)?
The ECU programming doesn't "blip" anything. It merely struggles to keep the engine at idle speed when releasing the clutch tries to slow down the engine as it grabs. The ECU programming is powerful enough to smoothly maintain idle during move-off. The engine by itself would never experience that sort of trouble trying to stay running. Idling at rest and then maintaining idle as one releases the clutch is not the usual task of the ECU, so it required inventive programming.
I found that keeping my foot off of the throttle was fabulous for maneuvering around the garage or parking lot. I didn't like it so much for regular traffic starts. Since I was already used to driving cars with racing engines that had very small flywheels, I was easily able to adjust to the CGT engine/clutch requirements after only a few traffic starts. If one is new to light flywheel cars, it can take longer to learn how to coordinate gas and clutch.
Some early owners refused to learn how to move off from rest in a coordinated way and fried the clutch by slipping the crap out of it on start up. The CGT clutch is plenty capable of the task at hand, but it can be destroyed by slipping while lots of throttle is applied.
01-12-2018, 01:18 PM
#2469
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by W8MM
"Manual blipping before it grabs" won't work because the blipping only lasts a fraction of a second. The blip dies before engagement and the car stalls. To make blipping-before-grab successful, a more conventional flywheel is required so that there is enough energy left to keep the engine running when the clutch finally grabs. Adding throttle at the exact same time it grabs (not before) is what is needed.
The ECU programming doesn't "blip" anything. It merely struggles to keep the engine at idle speed when releasing the clutch tries to slow down the engine as it grabs. The ECU programming is powerful enough to smoothly maintain idle during move-off. The engine by itself would never experience that sort of trouble trying to stay running. Idling at rest and then maintaining idle as one releases the clutch is not the usual task of the ECU, so it required inventive programming.
I found that keeping my foot off of the throttle was fabulous for maneuvering around the garage or parking lot. I didn't like it so much for regular traffic starts. Since I was already used to driving cars with racing engines that had very small flywheels, I was easily able to adjust to the CGT engine/clutch requirements after only a few traffic starts. If one is new to light flywheel cars, it can take longer to learn how to coordinate gas and clutch.
Some early owners refused to learn how to move off from rest in a coordinated way and fried the clutch by slipping the crap out of it on start up. The CGT clutch is plenty capable of the task at hand, but it can be destroyed by slipping while lots of throttle is applied.
The ECU programming doesn't "blip" anything. It merely struggles to keep the engine at idle speed when releasing the clutch tries to slow down the engine as it grabs. The ECU programming is powerful enough to smoothly maintain idle during move-off. The engine by itself would never experience that sort of trouble trying to stay running. Idling at rest and then maintaining idle as one releases the clutch is not the usual task of the ECU, so it required inventive programming.
I found that keeping my foot off of the throttle was fabulous for maneuvering around the garage or parking lot. I didn't like it so much for regular traffic starts. Since I was already used to driving cars with racing engines that had very small flywheels, I was easily able to adjust to the CGT engine/clutch requirements after only a few traffic starts. If one is new to light flywheel cars, it can take longer to learn how to coordinate gas and clutch.
Some early owners refused to learn how to move off from rest in a coordinated way and fried the clutch by slipping the crap out of it on start up. The CGT clutch is plenty capable of the task at hand, but it can be destroyed by slipping while lots of throttle is applied.
01-12-2018, 02:56 PM
#2470
but it can be destroyed by slipping while lots of throttle is applied
Mike, Isn't that exactly what Christijan is doing in the video?
Mike, Isn't that exactly what Christijan is doing in the video?
01-12-2018, 03:05 PM
#2471
Drifting
"Manual blipping before it grabs" won't work because the blipping only lasts a fraction of a second. The blip dies before engagement and the car stalls. To make blipping-before-grab successful, a more conventional flywheel is required so that there is enough energy left to keep the engine running when the clutch finally grabs. Adding throttle at the exact same time it grabs (not before) is what is needed.
The ECU programming doesn't "blip" anything. It merely struggles to keep the engine at idle speed when releasing the clutch tries to slow down the engine as it grabs. The ECU programming is powerful enough to smoothly maintain idle during move-off. The engine by itself would never experience that sort of trouble trying to stay running. Idling at rest and then maintaining idle as one releases the clutch is not the usual task of the ECU, so it required inventive programming.
I found that keeping my foot off of the throttle was fabulous for maneuvering around the garage or parking lot. I didn't like it so much for regular traffic starts. Since I was already used to driving cars with racing engines that had very small flywheels, I was easily able to adjust to the CGT engine/clutch requirements after only a few traffic starts. If one is new to light flywheel cars, it can take longer to learn how to coordinate gas and clutch.
Some early owners refused to learn how to move off from rest in a coordinated way and fried the clutch by slipping the crap out of it on start up. The CGT clutch is plenty capable of the task at hand, but it can be destroyed by slipping while lots of throttle is applied.
The ECU programming doesn't "blip" anything. It merely struggles to keep the engine at idle speed when releasing the clutch tries to slow down the engine as it grabs. The ECU programming is powerful enough to smoothly maintain idle during move-off. The engine by itself would never experience that sort of trouble trying to stay running. Idling at rest and then maintaining idle as one releases the clutch is not the usual task of the ECU, so it required inventive programming.
I found that keeping my foot off of the throttle was fabulous for maneuvering around the garage or parking lot. I didn't like it so much for regular traffic starts. Since I was already used to driving cars with racing engines that had very small flywheels, I was easily able to adjust to the CGT engine/clutch requirements after only a few traffic starts. If one is new to light flywheel cars, it can take longer to learn how to coordinate gas and clutch.
Some early owners refused to learn how to move off from rest in a coordinated way and fried the clutch by slipping the crap out of it on start up. The CGT clutch is plenty capable of the task at hand, but it can be destroyed by slipping while lots of throttle is applied.
I have no idea how the car maintains rpm's if it does not blip the throttle which is what the video shows being done manually. I believe the guy did what a non pro can not I am sure you are an excellent driver but the video shows how it can be done just curious of you can also do what the video shows.
However the ECU communicates it has to know what is required to add power my guess is it's constantly seeking what is required no different than an F1 transmission but the CGT ECU only runs that program when the clutch is engaged sending / seeking information to control a smooth action.
There are some who have re -engineered the flywheel and clutch but no one ever shares information.
01-12-2018, 03:15 PM
#2472
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
As they say, “One can always go fastest in someone else’s car!”
01-12-2018, 04:34 PM
#2473
Mike,I think you misunderstood me, I believe you 100%. I am asking you if you watch the video, doesn't it appear that he's putting excessive wear on the clutch?
01-12-2018, 05:50 PM
#2474
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The driver seems to be “hot *******” the throttle application quite a bit, but notice that he doesn’t keep the revs up as he engages the clutch to start moving. It’s mostly audio entertainment and not big time clutch abuse.
OTOH, I wouldn’t recommend copying his technique because there are a number of ways to get it wrong that would be detrimental to clutch life.
01-12-2018, 09:07 PM
#2475
Drifting
Pasted a link to the entire article - few items below that shed some light on the operations of the clutch / transmission.
https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-models/carrera-gt/
Ceramic clutch
The Carrera GT is also the first car in the world equipped with a ceramic clutch. It is called PCCC or Porsche Ceramic Composite Clutch. The two-plate clutch diameter is only 169 mm / 6.65" and it allows a maximum torque of 1000 Nm. The clutch weighs just 3.5 kg / 7.7 lb which is 1/3 of the mass of the 996 Turbo clutch. And due to the low clutch diameter the mass moment of inertia accounts for only 1/10.Transmission
The extremely severe requirements with regard to the overall concept of the car excluded the installation of a standard transmission. In order to cope with the specific boundary conditions in terms of input torque, wheelbase, aerodynamics and center-of-gravity level, a completely new transmission was developed for the Carrera GT. It was decided to use a transverse transmission with integrated engine oil tank and cyclone separator for oil foam suppression. With this concept, the masses are concentrated at the center of gravity while providing space enough for the installation of a aerodynamic diffusor across the entire width of the car. Due to the need to use a clutch as compact as possible, the Carrera GT does not come with a two-mass flywheel – but the function of such a flywheel is provided nevertheless by the special design of the input shafts: the first main shaft is hollow, with a long and thin full shaft running inside as a spring rod. Together with the mass weight of the angle drive the two shafts acting as a torsion spring serve to absorb possible jolts coming from the engine, reducing transmission noise in the process.
https://www.stuttcars.com/porsche-models/carrera-gt/
Ceramic clutch
The Carrera GT is also the first car in the world equipped with a ceramic clutch. It is called PCCC or Porsche Ceramic Composite Clutch. The two-plate clutch diameter is only 169 mm / 6.65" and it allows a maximum torque of 1000 Nm. The clutch weighs just 3.5 kg / 7.7 lb which is 1/3 of the mass of the 996 Turbo clutch. And due to the low clutch diameter the mass moment of inertia accounts for only 1/10.Transmission
The extremely severe requirements with regard to the overall concept of the car excluded the installation of a standard transmission. In order to cope with the specific boundary conditions in terms of input torque, wheelbase, aerodynamics and center-of-gravity level, a completely new transmission was developed for the Carrera GT. It was decided to use a transverse transmission with integrated engine oil tank and cyclone separator for oil foam suppression. With this concept, the masses are concentrated at the center of gravity while providing space enough for the installation of a aerodynamic diffusor across the entire width of the car. Due to the need to use a clutch as compact as possible, the Carrera GT does not come with a two-mass flywheel – but the function of such a flywheel is provided nevertheless by the special design of the input shafts: the first main shaft is hollow, with a long and thin full shaft running inside as a spring rod. Together with the mass weight of the angle drive the two shafts acting as a torsion spring serve to absorb possible jolts coming from the engine, reducing transmission noise in the process.