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Old 03-11-2018, 10:50 AM
  #2521  
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Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
CGT sellers have been kicking themselves for a long time.

Estimate 800k - 1M well calculated - north of 1M then it's considered well sold.

CGT is finally emerging there's still a lot of play financially speaking.

Every article / review puts the CGT at #1 or #2 best drivers car.
There has been some activity on CGTs starting January. CNC sold a silver and a basalt black, Marshal Goldman sold a black one and Porsche of South Shore sold a silver one.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:18 PM
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At 100 miles that car is completely unrepresentative of the general market. Imo the faster the cars go back down to a more sensible level of a few years ago the better it will be for everyone, especially owners who mean to drive the cars than just gloat about the value of the thing.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by CGT000 View Post
There has been some activity on CGTs starting January. CNC sold a silver and a basalt black, Marshal Goldman sold a black one and Porsche of South Shore sold a silver one.
All good sellers (again) market resets.

I don't think anyones mindset changes at any price it's the owners way they go thru life.

For me it's not a bad thing to see the value of a toy rise.

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Old 03-11-2018, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by CRex View Post
A bit OT here... what do you think contributed to the (significant) price difference between the Gooding and RM auctions? The RM cars seem to be better-bid in general. In one case (with the 964 Turbos) the price delta came out to nearly 40%... what gives?
If you are talking apples to apples models the difference in the quality and miles. With cars where many were built relatively speaking (e.g. 3.6 Turbo) the delta gets bigger as there are more out there.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:57 PM
  #2525  
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Originally Posted by isv View Post
At 100 miles that car is completely unrepresentative of the general market. Imo the faster the cars go back down to a more sensible level of a few years ago the better it will be for everyone, especially owners who mean to drive the cars than just gloat about the value of the thing.
Probably true. But the problem is that buyers and sellers really don't have good information.

We will write up our auction recap sometime next week ... and the question is how many CGTs are say sub 500 miles (maybe we will effort to answer that)? If there are only a few then low miles becomes worth a significant premium. If many are low miles then its not worth much (like saying 'low mileage' 918 or 911R - most are so that's not worth much). In this case I'd guess that neither the buyer or seller know the answer. Which puts the price risk on the buyer ... and I'd again say well sold.
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Old 03-11-2018, 05:10 PM
  #2526  
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Originally Posted by pors9 View Post
Probably true. But the problem is that buyers and sellers really don't have good information.

We will write up our auction recap sometime next week ... and the question is how many CGTs are say sub 500 miles (maybe we will effort to answer that)? If there are only a few then low miles becomes worth a significant premium. If many are low miles then its not worth much (like saying 'low mileage' 918 or 911R - most are so that's not worth much). In this case I'd guess that neither the buyer or seller know the answer. Which puts the price risk on the buyer ... and I'd again say well sold.
Woah!

Estimate 8 - 1M and sold in the middle how is that not "good information" as you state.

You have no idea how many sub 500 mile CGT's there are - per your post and posted "well sold" twice but it hammered in the middle of estimate within 2%.

Seems the lack of accurate information is on you
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Old 03-11-2018, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
Woah!

Estimate 8 - 1M and sold in the middle how is that not "good information" as you state.

You have no idea how many sub 500 mile CGT's there are - per your post and posted "well sold" twice but it hammered in the middle of estimate within 2%.

Seems the lack of accurate information is on you
You are making the mistake of assuming that somehow the auction house estimate was a valid starting point. Auction houses overstate estimates generally. Not only is it in their profit interest to overstate them, but it also how they compete for cars with other auction houses. And the majority of Porsches we follow have sold at low end of estimates (or below or no sale) since 2017. That the price sold - hammered not in the middle but the lower end of the estimate @ $835k - means nothing in terms of the market. Estimates do not include the commission btw just to be clear.

We think the buyer over paid for this car given the current market, partilculary once you add commission. So for the third and final time ... 'well sold'. Bang!

And yes we do have a very good idea of how many sub 500 mile CGT's there are in North America.
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:13 PM
  #2528  
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Originally Posted by pors9 View Post
You are making the mistake of assuming that somehow the auction house estimate was a valid starting point. Auction houses overstate estimates generally. Not only is it in their profit interest to overstate them, but it also how they compete for cars with other auction houses. And the majority of Porsches we follow have sold at low end of estimates (or below or no sale) since 2017. That the price sold - hammered not in the middle but the lower end of the estimate @ $835k - means nothing in terms of the market. Estimates do not include the commission btw just to be clear.

We think the buyer over paid for this car given the current market, partilculary once you add commission. So for the third and final time ... 'well sold'. Bang!

And yes we do have a very good idea of how many sub 500 mile CGT's there are in North America.
You want to play bash auction house and value of a 100 mile CGT - post some examples. Amazing you went from not knowing to knowing how many sub 500 CGT's exist in a few hours

It's naive to think and post that someone selling or buying at these levels is not knowledgeable and you have stated nothing to prove otherwise.

CGT pricing thread - your reference other cars have not hit reserve let's discuss CGT prices feel free to post those vs your opinion.

People read this thread to buy and sell. Understand it's your opinion but you made a lot of remarks with not one example.

I agree your final opinion is proven to be - worth less

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Old 03-11-2018, 09:28 PM
  #2529  
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Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
You want to play bash auction house and value of a 100 mile CGT - post some examples. Amazing you went from not knowing to knowing how many sub 500 CGT's exist in a few hours
I never said that we don't have the information I said that it might not be something that we want to effort to compile. Or if we compile it to share it for that matter.

Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
It's naive to think and post that someone selling or buying at these levels is not knowledgeable and you have stated nothing to prove otherwise.
Whatever you'd like to think is fine, but I can tell you that just because someone is buying 'at high levels' does not necessarily mean they are smart about it. In fact the more money they have often the less they care about the incremental amount they pay.

Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
CGT pricing thread - your reference other cars have not hit reserve let's discuss CGT prices feel free to post those vs your opinion.
So I was actually referring to many different models that we cover and track worldwide. From 1990's air cooled's through 911R.

But, since a) private sales data are not well documented and b) we are talking about auctions and c) CGT's in particular ... lets let the viewers decide if the auction houses get it right on estimates or not - or if they over estimate a very high percentage of the time. Note: every 'No Hammer' was a failed estimate by the auction house or they would not have taken the car (meaning knowing they could not sell it).

Link to CGT Auction Results!

Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
People read this thread to buy and sell. Understand it's your opinion but you made a lot of remarks with not one example.
See above.

Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
I agree your final opinion is proven to be - worth less
No comment.
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Old 03-11-2018, 11:18 PM
  #2530  
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Originally Posted by pors9 View Post
I never said that we don't have the information I said that it might not be something that we want to effort to compile. Or if we compile it to share it for that matter.

Whatever you'd like to think is fine, but I can tell you that just because someone is buying 'at high levels' does not necessarily mean they are smart about it. In fact the more money they have often the less they care about the incremental amount they pay.



So I was actually referring to many different models that we cover and track worldwide. From 1990's air cooled's through 911R.

But, since a) private sales data are not well documented and b) we are talking about auctions and c) CGT's in particular ... lets let the viewers decide if the auction houses get it right on estimates or not - or if they over estimate a very high percentage of the time. Note: every 'No Hammer' was a failed estimate by the auction house or they would not have taken the car (meaning knowing they could not sell it).

Link to CGT Auction Results!

See above.

No comment.
Thanks for sharing - colors would help regardless browsing thru you are still off on well bought - last one close to the mileage hammered at 985 and 1050 before that.

I purchase a lot of stuff at auction - people aren't likely drinking or misinformed at this level but sometimes things get carried away the whole premise of luxury items - no hammer has many different outcomes sometimes the auction item goes even higher behind the scenes. As far as private sale do you believe they don't use these auction numbers to negotiate.

From my experience an auction is a gamble for the buyer far more than the seller. Auction hammer price tethers like cars good luck finding another 100 mile CGT that sells below - which is my beef with your post.

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Old 03-12-2018, 12:08 AM
  #2531  
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I see parallels between the CGT and the F40 (early in its day). Both cars were produced in relatively large numbers and have their share of +ve & -ve stories. Then the market warmed up to what the F40 really is and from there prices took a leg up.

It'll be interesting to see how this topic evolves over the next 10 years (when the CGT will reach the same point in the curve as the F40 today).

Until then, I'm seriously toying with the idea of buying a high-mile CGT to really drive and enjoy. These things are really a superb driver's car and a travesty to be kept as museum pieces...
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CRex View Post
Then the market warmed up to what the F40 really is and from there prices took a leg up.
F40 prices are off from a few years ago just like CGT.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by nuvolari612 View Post
... good luck finding another 100 mile CGT that sells below - which is my beef with your post.
You should have started and ended there. We could have saved a lot of time.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pors9 View Post
You should have started and ended there. We could have saved a lot of time.
ok

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Old 03-16-2018, 11:44 AM
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F40 prices are not off - trying to find a good one is still a 1.2+ final number and few sellers have been holding strong on 1.4-1.6 asks.

Seller confidence is more important than rarity if there are only 5-10 cars on the market at a time.

CGT market waxed and waned based on who the buyers are...some guys want to drive which sells a lot of the 575-650k level cars and the museum piecers want 3 digit mile cars.

For the record when we had a 24 mile car I bounced it off plenty of people for 850k and nobody bit.
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