Carrera GT

http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=812

nycartdealer

as the chef Emril would say "BAM" !

Stephen Pitts

What a Great Result for Porsche! Fantastic. I thought the chief design engineer (who has been in the other videos) was just about to break down -- he is so modest in the various interviews, etc., and yet he preserves. Its like he silently whispers: "The results speak for themselves." And they have!

It could definitely be the greatest "everyday" supercar (a funny term for me that is becoming more popular). Anyhow, it always amazes me when people go around and quote horsepower or power/weight ratios of cars significantly more than a Porsche and the latter almost always wins on the track or in a race (Sabine taking on a 458 with her 911 in the Ring, Top Gear's review of the "new" Aston Martin on the Isle of Man, etc., etc.). They just punch well above their weight. And no wonder it is just popular with enthusiast racers. Anyway, hats off to Porsche for all the immense work and dedication to produce the 918. 6:57? Hats off indeed...

UDPride

Remember about two months ago when the P1 and LeFerrari output numbers and potential performnce numbers were released. People were questioning whether the 918 was already outdated and obsolete before it was ever built and if Porsche made a huge mistake.

I think these performance numbers say a lot. Even more than that, it was leaked a week or two ago that the P1 did not break 7 minutes on the Ring.

Now, I fully expect the P1 to eventually break it. The 918 first lapped around 7:12 or so. So times will improve. Same with LaFerrari -- though they never like to go the the Ring.

The 918 is a half million bucks cheaper than the P1 as well, along with being infinitely less polluting. The pollution thing is what Porsche is really focusing on in the last few years. Its not easy to make horsepower when are choking fumes!

CarMaven

It appears P1 tried repeatedly to break the ring time 2wks ago with virtual production model. So I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon (especially with the weather changing). They can certainly try harder though. But anything more significant, may affect their upcoming production dates. In contrast: the 918 that scored the 7:14 lap time, was a very early production mule, with reduced power, revving, ECU, tuning, etc. Big difference!

P1 is 1.2 mil and 918 is bare minimum $850,000 (more likely over $900,000, close to, over a mil for some). So I don't see much difference there at these prices.

And for what it's worth. P1 was last known at 250 units. Even if it's closer to 300 now. Porsche's was saying 600, even before the Ring News. Now, after the Ring News, Porsche's saying their sales are up even more, and they'll sell out well before the years over.

We'll see? But all this is not good news for the McLaren, me thinks. And the Ferrari is having all type of problems from what we hear, and may be a late party gate crasher, when all the Hullabaloo has died down, and the public has moved on to the next shiny thing (or has already crowned the 918 for being the first and the best Hyper Hybrid right out the box).

Interesting.

Stephen Pitts

Well put CarMaven!

Carrera GT

I think Porsche is saying their sales are starting not because of the ring time, but because it's all part of a marketing push as they're just starting to really try to sell the thing. I've noticed an increase in their marketing stuff in the mail. I'm not sure if it works, but certainly not on me.

As for the P1, I'm curious to read more about McLaren attempting records. There's been scuttlebutt since Goodwood that they clocked a 6:33 plus or minus, but I get a lot of stuff from McLaren and nothing boasting times.

I think it's fair to say nobody can predict how these three will play out. It's such an occult game of marketing, and the technology is completely unknown and, aside from Porsche, completely unprecedented. On Paper, the 918 is not the strongest hand. On merit and history, McLaren knows how to build this caliber of super car beyond any equal. On reputation, Ferrari cheats and lies, but with a line of billionaires stretching around the globe, who can argue against their ways? : )

CarMaven

Nice post.

FYI: McLaren never clocked 6:33 anything. That was totally debunked by them and it was a fallacy. It was motivation set up by the image department or something. Never happend.

As far as "on paper". Yes, that's only on paper, unfortunately (it's not reality till you make the actual car). And McLaren has had to back away from some of their earlier boast, statements already.

I don't really see the mismatch "on paper" that so many did. Yes, the McLaren has 903 HP. But the 918 has 887. That's not much of a gap. Even the Ferrari has 949 HP. And that's if we believe these numbers to be true. I think the real differentiation is the Torque actually. The 918 kills them in that department (300+ ft/lbs more). And it actually has a better torque to weight ratio to the others. That's why I never saw the big gulf others did. Everyone else just focused on HP and the alleged weights only it seemed.

About weight: Both the P1 and LaFe should come in about 3400+ lbs so I never saw the weight as big a differential as reported. And with Porsche's 4WS, 4WD, extremely low COG, it's enormous torque, etc.. That obviously narrowed the gap significantly, and even surpassed it appears. Obviously, Porsche under promised, and over delivered. It appeared the competition, may have did the opposite. We'll see how it plays out? That was my two cents.

Thanks mate.

TAMAD

There's a lot to be said about being first at something, anything after is like second fiddle. Let's take for example, FIRST TO LAND ON THE MOON! who cares who comes after that;0)
Correct on all fronts as far as P1 and LaFerrari goes. P1 will probably go under 918s time (that's a big maybe, Woking will need version2 update to do it) but not by much, I give it a sec or two. Epic FAIL really when you compare a luxury 4WD TARGA (918) vs a 'race car' for the streets (P1). With the LaFerrari, maranello will conjure a time quicker than both the Mac and Porsche and getaway with it, cause they are FERRARI. this achievement in engineering is HUGE for Porsche. There will be 918 sold years end ;0)

TAMAD

Totally agree. 918 though rumored to actually have 920hp ;0) so in reality all three are within the margin of error. I agree with you on weight too, all three are close. Porsche sandbagged the 918, rumored weight is actually 3600lbs curb, but has the largest battery unit of the three. It's gonna take version2 update for the P1 to go under 918 time. If you look at the in car video the battery is just about dead before the end of the 918 run. Another lap around and the 918 will be slower. Can not charge enough second time around to post the same or quicker time. P1 has smaller batteries, no power (hp) at the end thus slower 7:04 time. Woking has got to get more hp out of the P1 by ECU/boost reflash to beat 918 time. Ride height of the 918 sets up perfect for the ring ala GT-R (one reason Nissan does well there), the P1 sits way too low. Another fix by McLaren if they want to break the record. The RING is an absolute MONSTER, reason why it is the test bed for auto makers worldwide! Fortunately for Porsche the are MASTERS there. You also need some SICK! drivers to run
great times. Again porsche has that in spades. The RESULTS speak for themselves. McLaren has their work cut out for them. Ferrari will not enter this fight, no need really, LaFerrari is all sold. It's a lose lose for them if their time sucks!
What Porsche just recently accomplished is EPIC! NUFF SAID ;0)

UDPride

I think there were some 0-150MPH times that were leaked by McLaren and Ferrari at one time that seemed to call into question the performance of the 918 and whether it was already irrelevant. I never bothered to verify the veracity of those journalists who spouted off the performance numbers -- but they seemed convinced of them and wondered if Porsche was DOA on this hybrid supercar battle.

I think what Porsche had going for them is the 918 has been in the works for over 2 years. This has been a long and methodical process compared to the rush jobs of the P1 and LaFerrari. Two points I want to make about this:

1. I doubt the P1 and LaFerrari are even built had Porsche not already been knee deep in the 918.

2. Since Porsche was the first to go the "hybrid supercar" route, they had to post something on the board as a performance target -- after all, there was nothing to compare it to. They were breaking new ground. But McLaren and Ferrari had the luxury of seeing what the 918 was possibly capable of, and one-upping Porsche by following later on when the benchmark was already set. Its not like all three companies began from the same starting line at the same time -- which was a significant advantage to McLaren and Ferrari to cherry-pick Porsche's performance philosophy and then use THAT as their own baseline.

But who knows how the P1 and LaFerrari will ultimately shake out. As someone else said, McLaren certainly knows what they are doing. The MP4-12C was no half-*** effort. Ferrari is the wildcard. They never like to give journalists their cars for performance testing. I think it goes back to when they debuted the F50 and knew it was not as quick as the F40 and thought it would tarnish the car's image (its a great car by any measure).

Putting all that aside, I firmly believe the 918 is the most beautiful of the three cars. The P1 looks a little too boy racer, and pretty much everything out of Ferrari over the last 15 just looks like a damn Star Trek spaceship. The 918 has a confident understated presence. Its not trying hard to look fast. Its just a Porsche with typical Porsche lines, but nothing over-done.

I must say the twin tailpipes sticking out the rear deck just behind the driver's squash was one hell of a design touch however.

And it also must be said that Porsche has never put all their eggs in being the fastest car on the market. Ferrari and Lamb have been building faster top-end cars for 15 years. Porsche knows it, but has never really gone out of their way to be bothered too much by it. Anything over 195mph will kill you if launch over a guardrail. Porsche's focus has usually been on that driving experience between 65-150mph.

Last but not least, Porsche began the hybrid way of thinking well over 5 years ago when the Porsche Intelligent Performance angle took root. Theyve been throwing big bucks into stupidly low emissions and stupidly high MPGs. You can get damn near 30 combined MPGs in a Carrera -- thats nuts. The other two car companies are not even making things like this a consideration in their manufacturing.

Just some random thoughts.

GuyR

Porsche went sub 7 first - nothing else matters now in PR terms, it'll be a huge boost for sales. Ferrari won't even go there, why bother as the're all sold anyway, so there's only a downside. P1 will probably beat it, but most would expect that anyway.

The biggest highlight for me from this video is that if you want to track ANY of these cars, within about 6 minutes of full-on lapping you're not driving the same car anymore as you've basically lost 20-30% of your power. Porsche is sadly the worst for this since the electric motor comprises 31% of overall power vs 17%/19% in the LaF and P1.

After one lap an 887hp 918 will be down as low as 608bhp on engine only. Obviously it'll pick up some electric juice through a lap, but the re-charge rate is massively lower than discharge, so it's a losing game for all these.

Kind of makes me wonder what the top speed would be after running 5 minutes at high speed on the Autobahns, or how much the 0-300kph would drop by.

Tagline:

'Petrol - all your power, all the time'

TAMAD

Porsche and LaFerrari employs KERS on braking, the P1 does not and solely relies on petrol to recharge. Woking could not solve brake feel issue so they just gave up on that system. Porsche brake response and feel will be best of the three even with KERS activated. Walliser stated KERS braking was the most difficult issue to solve and took a lot of R&D to cure. ;0)......that said you will discharge most if not all E-power with HOT LAP activated, reason for the second go around will be slower. KERS braking can't make up all the power lost. on RACE mode and any other track besides the ring, you will probably still have E-power assist. Like I said the RING is a MONSTER. worst for the P1, cause of no KERS on braking and having a smaller capacity. It's one of the reasons they could not go under 7mins. Woking most likely will have to increase HP to make up for E-power lost towards the end of the lap if they are to go under 7mins. that means version2 ECU reflash before customer cars ARE DELIVERED?! Because of the weather and the issues concerning the P1, you will not see an official time from McLaren concerning the ring. McLaren stated to BtoG that if they dont go under 7, they will not mention that they were even there! The P1 concept was around since the startup of McLaren auto. they were going to have a three model line. but like you said I think hybrid power was a rush to judgement becausevof the 918. Woking now is playing catch up but funding is getting low.
What Porsche just accomplished is MEGA and will pass the test of time. 2nd to do something never looks good ;0)
There REALLY is no substitute!
As for Ferrari, they could give a SH...........;0)

CarMaven

Bingo!!

I agree with everything you said.

1) Ferrari and McLaren were playing in Porsche's Sandbox (First time Hybrid Hyper Car), and both were woefully under prepared in manufacturing a proper one, that answered conflicting questions. It's obvious Porsche's time and plan, were very well thought out, and they had the answers for everything in their vehicle. In the interim, McLaren couldn't back up their flippant Ring boast (from Ron Den), and Ferrari is having all type of problems trying to manufacturer an advanced working prototype. Rd 1 Porsche

2) Agreed. Ferrari and McLaren wouldn't have come out with their cars (whether McLaren had it in their plans or not) if Porsche didn't. They were just "following the leader (so to speak)". And as I said earlier; it showed. Rd 2 Porsche

3) Agree with you, that Porsche had set some working benchmarks (at least to the public), but weren't trying to sell cars in advance like McLaren and Ferrari did, with crazy targets. And if you noticed, Porsche upgraded their specs and performance numbers (almost religiously) every six months or so, for two years with the 918 (whether people noticed that or not). It was never in response to anything LaFe or P1 did. It's just no one payed attention, cared enough, or took the time to notice. Rd 3 Porsche.

4) I agree; the 918 is the most beautiful, elegant, and versatile car of the group (we'll have to wait to see what LaFe produces). I have no doubt, that it will go down as one of the greatest automotive achievements ever (and/or at least the 21 Century). The car is just too good, in so many areas (beauty, speed, innovation, design, handling, interior, mileage, power, etc.). Kudos to Porsche! Rd 4 Porsche

5) Yes. Though the 918 can go 215 mph (Porsche says 220 mph actually), the focus is handling, comfort, convenience, thrust (i.e. torque), and the driving experience, vs all out speed indeed. Rd 5 Standing 8 count/Remains to be seen (with Porsche laying extremely heavy punches to the midsection of it's bewildered competitor)?

6) Yeah, I think Porsche sandbagged a lot of fans and haters with the Hybrid stuff. When many of us heard, it was our natural inclinations to question or dislike Hybrids [unfairly] disenchanted many of us. However, Porsche thought this out very clearly. And some of the same problems that a McLaren are having now with their P1 (such as charging on the Ring, low rent interior), is because it's obvious the (Super Mp4-12) car and it's hybridization was a relative add on, relative to a 918 that was designed to answer all questions from the start. Rd 6 Porsche knockout, until more competitor's enter the Ring (pun or no pun), or P1 gets patched up and steps into the Ring or faces the press and public [roads].

PS: Porsche stated they had deposits on 2/3rds of 918's before they announced their Ring Time. Now they feel they'll sell out, well before the year is over, cause business has picked up even more on the 918, due to all the wide spread publicity it's received recently. Double Knockout (if true)!!

Kudos to Porsche!!

CarMaven

Good points, and concerns.

However, I wouldn't worry about the 918 laps for customers.

Remember, all the various drivers, owners and reporters who drove the 918 on tracks in Race Hybrid Mode had the same battery power or more when they came back, after one or several laps. It wasn't an issue for them.

Hot Lap mode doesn't replenish the battery; true (though you could turn it back to Race Hybrid to do so, or brake), like it's other settings. Agreed. Nonetheless, we have to remember, very few owners will ever have the need to use hot lap (mind you be on an incredibly long, difficult track like the Ring, driving it near 10/10's as M. Lieb did). So it's not what they would encounter (unless their a professional race car driver/owners), mind you be an issue.

All the 918's performance stats are in Race Hybrid (0-60, etc.), where the engine charges the battery, along with Regenerative braking. So setting a hot lap record on the ring is not realistic to driving the car on a road or a track (even if driven with ferocity), where most owners lack Marc Lieb like driving ability, mind you the preposterous nature of repeatedly tracking a $ 1mil vehicle in the first place. This is also the main reason (to your charge dissipation concern) why the 918 has a bigger battery and more powerful, multiple electric motors (along with both brake, and engine regeneration) than it's competitors. Remember, the P1 (allegedly) couldn't match the 918's time, cause it's Hybrid component needed to be recharged twice. The 918's happened on the very last straight at the end of the track (and despite this, Lieb said the car could go faster, as he wasn't pushing it as hard, and other reasons). Porsche says, they will allow customers to upgrade their batteries, so the 918 should be faster and lighter in the future, for those owners who wish.

Race Hybrid mode is scary, if you ever seen someone drive the vehicle, going through the various driving modes. The car (and the crazy V8) morphs into a wild, unbridled, unrestrained Beast it appears. Yes, duck for cover, as your head's slammed into the head rest, and your stomach crunches from violent G Forces.

FWIW: Porsche claims [the constantly recharging] Race Hybrid Mode would be 2-5 secs behind Hot Lap Mode on the Ring