Ferrari Enzo vs Carrera GT
03-02-2004, 11:41 AM
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The CGT will take the Enzo at the Nring no problem. Porsche and Ferrari have traded the cars to each other for a week. Walter R tested the Enzo and CGT at the Pagenburg track. Porsche will only state the cars are very close. Walter did let slip that the CGT was 1 second faster than the Enzo in the dry and a massive 11 seconds in the wet. As far as power goes Ferrari always over states. Soon someone will dyno a CGT and I'd bet the HP is closer to 650HP than 600HP. There is no way Ferrari would allow a head to head match of the cars, especially at the Nring. 
03-02-2004, 05:42 PM
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According to Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson, the 7:30 is just a guess!
...
Why? Is there something wrong with the Carrera's handling? It should be fine. The low crank means a low centre of gravity. And it's not exactly offset by the fiddly, two-part, removable roof panels which weigh just 3lb apiece. It's mid engined, the 335/30 rear tyres are good and Porsche says it's been round the N?rburgring with Walter R?hrl at the helm in 7.32. That's blisteringly fast. Or rather it would be if it were true. In a moment of candour, Walter admitted he'd never actually done it, he just guessed at how long it may have taken.
...
(Jeremy is complaining that the Porsche guys wouldn't let him run the Carrera GT near anything that resembled a corner.)
See
http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DE...Number=01.html
for the full text.
...
Why? Is there something wrong with the Carrera's handling? It should be fine. The low crank means a low centre of gravity. And it's not exactly offset by the fiddly, two-part, removable roof panels which weigh just 3lb apiece. It's mid engined, the 335/30 rear tyres are good and Porsche says it's been round the N?rburgring with Walter R?hrl at the helm in 7.32. That's blisteringly fast. Or rather it would be if it were true. In a moment of candour, Walter admitted he'd never actually done it, he just guessed at how long it may have taken.
...
(Jeremy is complaining that the Porsche guys wouldn't let him run the Carrera GT near anything that resembled a corner.)
See
http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DE...Number=01.html
for the full text.
03-02-2004, 07:39 PM
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If Walter and Roland Kussmaul say the CGT can do 7:30 , believe it. Von Saurma did 7:40 on a cold wet track. He stated he could EASILY shave off at least 10 seconds. Its just a matter of time and a dry run will take place. Von Saurma will crack the 7:30 mark. 
Roland K stated the CGT can go under 7:30 with a special Nring suspension set up, but it would be undriveable on the street. One can only imagine what a light weight race version could do. Better yet break out the LMP 2000.
Its just a matter of time and a dry run will take place. Von Saurma will crack the 7:30 mark. Roland K stated the CGT can go under 7:30 with a special Nring suspension set up, but it would be undriveable on the street. One can only imagine what a light weight race version could do. Better yet break out the LMP 2000.
03-02-2004, 07:47 PM
#35
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RPG951S, thanks for the link. Very interesting!
For those who haven;t read it, Clarkson writes " Let me say that again. This is the best, most amazing, most stupendous engine that I've ever come across."
For those who haven;t read it, Clarkson writes " Let me say that again. This is the best, most amazing, most stupendous engine that I've ever come across."
03-08-2004, 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by NeverLift
The CGT will take the Enzo at the Nring no problem. Porsche and Ferrari have traded the cars to each other for a week. Walter R tested the Enzo and CGT at the Pagenburg track. Porsche will only state the cars are very close. Walter did let slip that the CGT was 1 second faster than the Enzo in the dry and a massive 11 seconds in the wet. As far as power goes Ferrari always over states. Soon someone will dyno a CGT and I'd bet the HP is closer to 650HP than 600HP. There is no way Ferrari would allow a head to head match of the cars, especially at the Nring.
The CGT will take the Enzo at the Nring no problem. Porsche and Ferrari have traded the cars to each other for a week. Walter R tested the Enzo and CGT at the Pagenburg track. Porsche will only state the cars are very close. Walter did let slip that the CGT was 1 second faster than the Enzo in the dry and a massive 11 seconds in the wet. As far as power goes Ferrari always over states. Soon someone will dyno a CGT and I'd bet the HP is closer to 650HP than 600HP. There is no way Ferrari would allow a head to head match of the cars, especially at the Nring.
Like I said, I'm not trying to throw any stones here, I just find it hard to believe that this was every truly done. It appears to be an urban legend IMHO.
03-08-2004, 05:48 PM
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Kevin,
I think that it was Pano that talked about Porsche and Ferrari traded cars for testing, Excellence might have also had a blurb. If I think about it tonight I will try and get the issue information for you.
I think that it was Pano that talked about Porsche and Ferrari traded cars for testing, Excellence might have also had a blurb. If I think about it tonight I will try and get the issue information for you.
03-09-2004, 01:27 PM
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It appears to be an urban legend IMHO.
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Thats funny. This swapping of cars isn't unusual. It was Autocar UK that stated this first. Pano also discussed this, I'll get the mag date when I get home. Excellence also talked about the car swap. There must be some kind of gentlemen agreement for the factories not to discuss this. All Porsche would say through Roland K was that the cars were VERY close in performance. It was Walter who stated this when asked about it. Ferrari loaned the car a few months earlier because the Enzo was out already. In October is when Porsche was to loan the CGT to them. I remember when the 959 was coming out, Porsche loaned the cars to other manufacturers too. It was GM that actually damaged a 959 when they sprayed stuff on the track to get the track stickier in testing. Porsche had stated to them it was ok to rev to 7K and drop the clutch. Porsche had done this with other tests just not with guw on the track. I'm sure in the future an actual comparo test will happen with the Enzo and CGT. My guess is the cars are very close on a track.
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Thats funny. This swapping of cars isn't unusual. It was Autocar UK that stated this first. Pano also discussed this, I'll get the mag date when I get home. Excellence also talked about the car swap. There must be some kind of gentlemen agreement for the factories not to discuss this. All Porsche would say through Roland K was that the cars were VERY close in performance. It was Walter who stated this when asked about it. Ferrari loaned the car a few months earlier because the Enzo was out already. In October is when Porsche was to loan the CGT to them. I remember when the 959 was coming out, Porsche loaned the cars to other manufacturers too. It was GM that actually damaged a 959 when they sprayed stuff on the track to get the track stickier in testing. Porsche had stated to them it was ok to rev to 7K and drop the clutch. Porsche had done this with other tests just not with guw on the track.
I'm sure in the future an actual comparo test will happen with the Enzo and CGT. My guess is the cars are very close on a track.
03-10-2004, 04:19 AM
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As a big Porsche enthusiast, it pains me to say this but my money is on the Enzo. Of course we can never be sure until someone actually does compare them but so many factors are in the Enzo's favour that it's hard for me to belive that the CGT can beat it.
Firstly, the Enzo is a league above in a straight line. Autocar's test of the CGT factory demo got 3.7, 7.4, 11.6@129, 15.8 for 0-60, 100, 1/4 mile and 150mph. For the Enzo, Road & Track with a customer's car obtained 3.3, 6.5, 11.1@136 and other mags have gotten 0-150 in 12.8, 3 seconds faster than the CGT. The CGT is quick but merely Pagani Zonda quick but the Enzo is McLaren quick. Several magazines have consistently confirmed the 660ps output of several different Enzos.
Secondly, the Enzo produces 1800lbs of downforce at 186mph with its active underbody downforce. The CGT has much less than this.
Thirdly, the F1 tranny may not be as involving to use but there is no doubt it's quicker. Having been in an Enzo I can tell you the upshifts are ligthning quick, waaay better than an M3 SMG for example.
In terms of handling, I can't say but I would imagine since R&T and C&D have both said the Enzo is the best I can't imagine the CGT being much better since they have similar size tyres, similar brake systems, similar weight and carbon chassis.
The Autocar review of the CGT raved about it's useability and completeness and the way the evo magazine Enzo, the Car magazine Enzo and my friend's Enzo have broken down, seems to point that it's likely to be better built, but it's a shame Porsche didn't give it another 80bhp to put it at the top of the heap.
Firstly, the Enzo is a league above in a straight line. Autocar's test of the CGT factory demo got 3.7, 7.4, 11.6@129, 15.8 for 0-60, 100, 1/4 mile and 150mph. For the Enzo, Road & Track with a customer's car obtained 3.3, 6.5, 11.1@136 and other mags have gotten 0-150 in 12.8, 3 seconds faster than the CGT. The CGT is quick but merely Pagani Zonda quick but the Enzo is McLaren quick. Several magazines have consistently confirmed the 660ps output of several different Enzos.
Secondly, the Enzo produces 1800lbs of downforce at 186mph with its active underbody downforce. The CGT has much less than this.
Thirdly, the F1 tranny may not be as involving to use but there is no doubt it's quicker. Having been in an Enzo I can tell you the upshifts are ligthning quick, waaay better than an M3 SMG for example.
In terms of handling, I can't say but I would imagine since R&T and C&D have both said the Enzo is the best I can't imagine the CGT being much better since they have similar size tyres, similar brake systems, similar weight and carbon chassis.
The Autocar review of the CGT raved about it's useability and completeness and the way the evo magazine Enzo, the Car magazine Enzo and my friend's Enzo have broken down, seems to point that it's likely to be better built, but it's a shame Porsche didn't give it another 80bhp to put it at the top of the heap.
03-10-2004, 04:52 AM
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Furthermore, the Ferrari is in a league of it's own for roadholding as well. It went around the standard size 300ft. skidpad at 1.05g (Car & Driver) and a larger diameter skidpad at Ferrari's testing facility at Fiorano at a reported 1.36g!! It went through a 600ft slalom at 72.0 mph (MotorTrend). It's brakes are incredible as well; 60-0 in 95 feet (MotorTrend).
As for acceleration, MT got 0-60 in 3.1, and quarter in 10.8 @ 135.0.
...it tops the McLaren F1 by a damn good amount when looked at overall. The McLaren wasn't a very taught handler as it was meant for everyday driving, and it's acceleration was finally topped by Ferrari as well!
The C-GT seems like an excruciatingly fast supercar, but I don't think it can top the Enzo on a track. I really hope someone finds out for sure, however.
As for acceleration, MT got 0-60 in 3.1, and quarter in 10.8 @ 135.0.
...it tops the McLaren F1 by a damn good amount when looked at overall. The McLaren wasn't a very taught handler as it was meant for everyday driving, and it's acceleration was finally topped by Ferrari as well!
The C-GT seems like an excruciatingly fast supercar, but I don't think it can top the Enzo on a track. I really hope someone finds out for sure, however.
03-10-2004, 08:26 AM
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Compare Porsche's with Ferraris' that outgun them. They always win. Look at GT3 vs stradale. How does that happen? The stradale is lighter, more power, has that "ultra fast f1", etc.
Compare Porsche's with Ferraris' that outgun them. They always win. Look at GT3 vs stradale. How does that happen? The stradale is lighter, more power, has that "ultra fast f1", etc.
03-10-2004, 10:44 AM
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"and a larger diameter skidpad at Ferrari's testing facility at Fiorano at a reported 1.36g!!"
i saw a report wherein the CGT was tracked and pulled 1.35 a couple times and i think it even got a 1.4 once!
i saw a report wherein the CGT was tracked and pulled 1.35 a couple times and i think it even got a 1.4 once!
03-10-2004, 11:49 AM
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I don't think skid pad numbers mean much. I read a magazine where they got a neon to pull over 1g with $2k in suspension mods. Does that mean it's better than alot of the street ferrari's that post under 1g numbers?
03-10-2004, 12:12 PM
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Straight line performance is important but on certain tracks it isn't. IMO the Nring is the ultimate bench mark and soon good numbers will show for the CGT. At sometime Von Saurma will get his hands on an ENZO there, if Ferrari takes off their skirt. All mag interviews i've read on the CGT most state flatly the CGT is the best handling car ever. Most claim its the best overall Supercar ever. This year more info will come out. Both cars are world class and should prove very entertaining once they get on the track.
All mag interviews i've read on the CGT most state flatly the CGT is the best handling car ever. Most claim its the best overall Supercar ever. This year more info will come out. Both cars are world class and should prove very entertaining once they get on the track.