ben in lj

"are any of your deposit holders nervous about the performance numbers in comparison to the competition in view of the high price? Or am I the only nervous nellie?"

nope, i can't wait. i'm not planning on buying the fastest car, just one of the most enjoyable (oh the sound of the CGT). the McLaren will kick the CGT's butt. you going to leipzig for the factory ride? if not, you really should. it's gonna be a looooooooong wait if you don't.

dk996tt

why not?? you only live once! what else are you going to do with your money?

Rufus Sanders

Porsche introduced a supercar that weighed 3100 lbs, had the biggest engine they had ever done, used aerospace materials to reduce weight, had a new-to-the-world suspension system, state of the art engine managment, and was the fastest car you could buy in the US.

It was the only car ever designed and built completely by Porsche, and won "Car of the Year" when it was introduced.

It was 1977. the car was the 928. so, if you guys feel like you're spending 300K for carbon fiber, I know where you can ger nearly the same usable performance numbers for $40,000. and get some aluminum tossed in for next to nothing. I have one, it's 20 yrs. old and I drive it everyday except in Mn. winters.How many CGT's will be driven for real. 20 yrs from now?- Ruf

msobota

Hopefully, we will see a CGT TT in the future.

Mike

Sean M.

I saw a CGT prototype recently in Stuttgart.

Honestly, my opinion on this vehicle is mixed. It compares favorably to the Enzo, but really... is it worth THAT much more than a GT2 and a GT3 a Boxster S combined? Hard to say. But I would choose the combo GT2 (track) GT3 (street) Boxster S (fun) over a CGT.

Maybe this thing will gain value over the years due to exclusivity. Maybe not.

Note that I DO NOT doubt that the CGT is an incredible ride. My only quibble is with teh aggressive pricing. If you have the cash and feel comfortable with the purchase - go for it!

Steve in FL

Rufus: What exactly is it that makes the 911 not qualify as being "designed and built completely by Porsche"? The 928 was certainly special for its day but these days it's rare to find one that's worth the maintenence costs. It's a helluva GT crusier but I don't consider it a sports car. Then again, I don't consider the standard 996 a "true" sportscar (see my sig)

928 Humor: While on the fall Treffen in 1986 I was admiring a sign on the 928 production line listing the number of relays, motors and switches as well as how many kilometers of wiring were in a 928. I turned to one of the Porsche reps escorting the group and asked "What do you do when you have an electrical problem in a 928?" His response was "Sell it."

Sean M.

Something that distinguishes the CGT from other mass production Porsche vehicles is that the CGT is not mass production. A rep in Stuttgart told me, "One of the things you are paying for is the exclusivity." Porsche will make 1500 total.

Perhaps everyone already knows the above info. But it did drive home the point to me. Why does it cost $450K? Primarily because it's exclusive.

Bentley

Approximately $450,000.00 per CGT each for a 500 unit build per year in a three year build cycle brings a gross sales for Porsche and its dealers of an amount of $675,000,000.00!
The fact that a new factory in Leipzig was built, in part, explains some of the non-recurring cost associated with this vehicle. Additional to that is the non-recurring engineering [some inspiration which dates back (1960's) to the 718 RS Spyder]. The N.R.E. of the CGT sports: a carbon/carbon body, a new 5.5 liter engine, and a twin plate ceramic clutch. These contributing non-recurring costs are substantial, obviously, and should be mentioned when talking about this premium vehicle's cost.
The recurring elements, especially, warranty claims against damage to the carbon/carbon body [which will be very substantial] must be recognized.
Presuming that the ceramic clutch's longevity has been accurately established by Porsche, its cost should be minimal relative to warranty claims.
The new V 10 604 horsepower/ 435 pound feet of torque and weighing only 472 pounds may end up being a more costly element of warranty work. This is due to the fact that owners of the vehicles will have a full range of proficiency levels and drive accordingly. A factory test driver will generally not abuse the vehicle intentionally.
These elements, while not exhaustive, do have to be considered when discussing Porsche's price of this vehicle. The other element is that buyers of the marque will pay a premium because they are purchasing a Porsche [and all the rights and privileges pertaining thereto]!

Jay Wellwood

Geez.....worried about the deposit and the 'am I getting my money's worth' with the purchase of the CGT.

Well....I guess if you have worked hard for your money - and you are concerned that you're spending it upon transportation - albeit top notch transportation, then you're probably better off with a Honda.

On the other hand - if you cherish inspiring engineering at it's very finest with numerous 1st's which demonstrate to the whole world that engineering, then what does it matter?

Although I'm not in the same financial league as those who can afford one of these beauties, I find the use of the materials like the Carbon Fiber engine cradle, the Stainless for the suspension, and other examples too numerous to mention (over 60 patents applied for in this car) - it's awe-inspring for myself personally. I'd love to drive one, sit in one, or even look at it up on a lift personally just for the engineering in this fine auto.

So.....that being said, if you have plunked your deposit down, and you're still not sure - by all means accept delivery. When you get the car - and have driven it around, come visit me some time. We'll put the car up on my lift and look it over from the underneath for the treasure that it is. Hell - we can even have a few drinks afterward - and you can stay in our guest suite overlooking the river. And yes, I am serious.

Les Quam

Jay, well said and if I get to Ark. I will take you up on it. It seems to me that some people like Seinfeld can afford to buy CGT and not worry about possibly devastating depreciation. Others like me who can afford it ,but it is a stretch worry that by 2006. That their will be several cars on the market with 600 plus HP and very good handling. For example Chevy has a 600 HP vette code named blue devil at 427 cubic inch being developed fpr 06. Dodge has stated to my local club president that they will have a 600 HP viper by 06 if not sooner. Audi has a nice mid engine 600 HP car being developed. Not to mention the Ford GT which can be increased to 600 HP with a chip and pulley. But I have not failed to realize that the CGT in terms of technology and build quality is light years in front of the aforementioned cars. However that is small consolation at the track when the competition for 300 grand less can put up the same times as you. I have driven the new viper both street and comp coupe and it is not the ill handling car it used to be. I also have driven the current Z06 on the track and it is very competitive, well balanced. You put 600HP in these cars and they will run comparable lap times as a CGT. But yes on a lift the CGT outclasses them all. When it comes to bang for the buck I look at all the information which is why I own a 03 mustang cobra. Which is bar none the most bang for the buck right now. Honestly 446K for a car makes me squeamish!

Sean M.

Hey, I will second Jay's offer. If you have a CGT and come to Alabama, you can park her in my garage (got plenty of space) and stay in the guest room. BTW, I live 15 minutes away from Barber Motorsports Park and the official Porsche Driving Experience.

With regard to depreciation/appreciation of the CGT, perhaps the best analogy is the 959. I don't think many people will buy the CGT purely for its performance; there is always cheaper horsepower elsewhere (witness the 1000 HP Toyota Supras).

The CGT is a technological statement from Porsche: this is the company purposefully building a symbolic flagship car, one meant for marketing as well as and profit. The CGT is a showcase for what Porsche engineers can create when liberated from the usual economic considerations. The fact that Porsche has built this vehicle makes all P-car drivers happy (it's nice to be in the family ).

The CGT is inherently collectible, since only 1500 will be built. Perhaps the limited build numbers will ensure its future value. But unlike the 959, Porsche is not selling 'em at a loss.

I do think there is a significant risk of long term (10-15 year) depreciation, ala the 959 . My understanding is that the 959 can now be found for less than $200k. There was a time not too long ago when that was unheard of.

Here is info I found about 959 values:

"List price was £190,000 in 1987 although every example was pre-sold and you would probably have had to part with in excess of £330,000 to secure an as new example between 1988 and ’89."

But values tumbled in the early 90s as the late 80s car boom came crashing down.

To summarize, if I was buying a CGT but concerned about depreciation, I would be prepared for reselling in the near term. In the near term you will probably make a nice profit on resale (especially once dealers have sold their allotment), but as time passes values will probably drop.

Les Quam

Sean, I couldn't agree more about the CGT being a showcase for Porsche and unlike the 959 Porsche must make a profit in current economic climate. And yes it's great to be part of Porsche during the CGT time. However I'm not interested in quick sale even at a profit. I can't agree on the exclusivity point though. The 959 had a run of about 200 for the world. The CGT will be 1500 ,half coming to NA. So I believe CGT will not hold it's value, and I realize I'm in the minority.And if CGT clearly out performed all it's competition depreciation would not be such a concern. But I see the performance gap being closed in a big way for a lot less money.

Sean M.

Les, actually I agree with you that the CGT will not hold its value over the long term. Even the 959 (especially when one accounts for inflation) has not really held its value. The 959 has depreciated even though, as you state, only 200 examples were built.

However, one might make a profit on a CGT in the near term. Once the dealers have sold their allotment, there may be the opportunity to resell the car to a buyer who did not get in line on the original production run.

You would have to be willing to part with the car pretty quickly, though. I think that after a few years have passed, CGT values will drop. As Wal-Mart says, watch for falling prices!