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^^ I thought you were the OP for a second and seemed to have made their decision before they even made this post.
also, my rationale is that your car would've been 99% as fun to drive without ptv to the grocery store, btw. you'd see better handling improvements with better tires
Hmm, I would say my fun to the grocery store might be a little limited without my chosen options. My fun on the way home from the grocery store is closer to 99%....because any more excitement and my wife complains of cracked eggs and spilt milk! LOL!
You are so right about tires. I ordered the GTS with all seasons which will be for cold weather and have Michelin summer tires waiting in the wings for the rest of the year.
I'm the OP and decided not to order PTV for all of the reasons mentioned in the thread. My wife doesn't notice and we saved a little money on a well equipped GTS. I do appreciate everyone's input.
I spec'ed it on my ED 2018 Macan GTS. I wrung one out on a test drive through some Malibu Canyon roads and was thoroughly impressed with the turn in and minimal body roll. Delivery is Sept 5 in Leipzig. I will be driving it for 6 weeks in Southeast Tuscany, the Val D'Orcia, which has absolutely killer driving roads. Those twisties, and down through the Swiss, and back through the Austrian, Alp passes from/to Leipzig and Zuffenhausen will provide plenty of proving grounds for the PTV+ , PASM Air Suspension, PTM, ABD, ASR, Sport Chrono and Adaptive Sport Seats...not to mention PSM, ABS, MSP and PDLS.
(The ACRONYMS are really over the top.)
Having never special ordered a car before, I could not resist picking every iteration of cool.
Here is a video that accurately depicts how I felt after that 1+30 test drive:
After driving my 2018 Macan GTS for 1500 miles in Europe, I can unequivocally state that the PTV+ is a real world advantage that pays for itself in the crisp turn in and rail-like solid exit grip. I drove the Stelvio, Spülgen and Flüela passes, with switchbacks like nowhere in North America, and the Macan absolutely blew me away with its' cornering prowess.
Google any of those passes, and select "Images" when the result page loads- they are spectacular. No, I don't need PTV+ for a run to the grocery store- but who buys any Porsche for pedestrian purposes?
The feeling of being tethered to an anchor placed at the center-point of an apex is worth every penny the PTV+ costs.
On another note, the air suspension has proved its' mettle as well in my journey. The secondary roads in the Val d'Orcia are gravel agricultural paths used by tractors pulling grape wagons. Pushing the OFF ROAD mode button allows one to storm these scenic byways with reckless abandon- with the incessant gravel-road Tuscan "dust paint job" the only drawback.
My 997 GTS would be worthless on over 50% of the roads in this valley. The Macan is perfection personified. It hauls farmer's market produce, wine tasting purchases and two additional passengers with ease.
After logging an additional 500 miles, the break-in period will be over and the SPORT+ button can be pushed to sample yet another level of performance. This thing is an absolute blast.
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 09-26-2017 at 07:42 PM.
The Gelände driving course at Leipzig was quite the experience. My instructor was a former rally car driver who began competitive driving at age 7. He did things with the Macan turbo demo car that seemed to defy the laws of physics. Of course, driving the engineered course 15-20 times a week with ED customers must provide familiarity and a deep knowledge of the Cayenne/Macan limitations...but the speed at which he navigated the obstacle course was unreal. I am a professional pilot, and drive pretty aggressive when conditions allow- but I will never, ever, push a vehicle like he did.
To top off the Leipzig ED experience, we were halfway through the FIA-certified race track portion of the orientation when a pair of 991.2 GT3 RS's overtook us. My instructor signaled and moved right while turn-indicator signalling it was OK to pass us. He then said "Let's go GT3 hunting!" He immediately selected SPORT+ and LOWER suspension, stomped on it and took insane lines through every turn until we caught the customer who was following his own instructor in an identical violet GT3 RS. Sure, the trailing GT3 was not driven by a pro, but we tailgated him for a few laps in our CUV. Wildly entertaining... and another lesson for me that the Macan GTS is more a sports car than a truck. I will never dare to brake as late, toss as hard, or take lines that place me on the curbing, inches from the grass, on every single turn of an FIA certified track- but I now know what is possible in this little Tiger. (The Porsche Experience tracks in Atlanta and LA are not in the same league as the Leipzig track- they are for vehicle orientation only, with no runout and armco barriers lining the track.)
The capability of the Macan is ridiculously overmatched to 99.99% of the US (and world) owner population. Those trips to the "grocery store" are a tremendous waste of the engineering that lies dormant in these vehicles.
Sure-footed, nimble, quick, comfortable- with the amazing PDK, an intelligent 4WD system, the clever PTV+ and the finest cockpit I have ever sat in (aircraft or motor vehicle).
Wow.
Just wow.
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 09-26-2017 at 07:53 PM.
The capability of the Macan is ridiculously overmatched to 99.99% of the US (and world) owner population. Those trips to the "grocery store" are a tremendous waste of the engineering that lies dormant in these vehicles.
...
Wow.
Just wow.
I feel the same way about our Turbo; it's one tick away from witchcraft!
Excellent post. And makes me more eager for our next ED: Leipzig and most-likely a(nother) Macan!
PTV is pretty seamless. It's almost more what you don't feel. The Macan tends to understeer as you move through corners. This means if you are going into a right hand bend the car tends to want to veer a bit left (or go straight) as the g-forces take hold of the car. PTV manipulates the brakes and the differential to literally rotate the car more to the right and help neutralize the force of the understeer. It literally turns easier and faster. PTV will do this at any situation where g-force takes hold of the car. This can be during everyday situations such as sharp corners at even low speeds, circles, or medium speeds such as freeway ramps. It's subtle but makes a difference. Is it a must-have? Not to everyone since the Macan probably outhandles every SUV and most cars to begin with. But it adds an extra degree sportiness, handling and safety for folks like me who want to maximize the Porsche experience.
I would side with this. I doubt you would notice it but would find the car to turn in easier. The base I drove seemed to have a fair amount of under steer built into it. I would imagine that some could be taken out with alignment.
The Gelände driving course at Leipzig was quite the experience. My instructor was a former rally car driver who began competitive driving at age 7. He did things with the Macan turbo demo car that seemed to defy the laws of physics. Of course, driving the engineered course 15-20 times a week with ED customers must provide familiarity and a deep knowledge of the Cayenne/Macan limitations...but the speed at which he navigated the obstacle course was unreal. I am a professional pilot, and drive pretty aggressive when conditions allow- but I will never, ever, push a vehicle like he did.
To top off the Leipzig ED experience, we were halfway through the FIA-certified race track portion of the orientation when a pair of 991.2 GT3 RS's overtook us. My instructor signaled and moved right while turn-indicator signalling it was OK to pass us. He then said "Let's go GT3 hunting!" He immediately selected SPORT+ and LOWER suspension, stomped on it and took insane lines through every turn until we caught the customer who was following his own instructor in an identical violet GT3 RS. Sure, the trailing GT3 was not driven by a pro, but we tailgated him for a few laps in our CUV. Wildly entertaining... and another lesson for me that the Macan GTS is more a sports car than a truck. I will never dare to brake as late, toss as hard, or take lines that place me on the curbing, inches from the grass, on every single turn of an FIA certified track- but I now know what is possible in this little Tiger. (The Porsche Experience tracks in Atlanta and LA are not in the same league as the Leipzig track- they are for vehicle orientation only, with no runout and armco barriers lining the track.)
The capability of the Macan is ridiculously overmatched to 99.99% of the US (and world) owner population. Those trips to the "grocery store" are a tremendous waste of the engineering that lies dormant in these vehicles.
Sure-footed, nimble, quick, comfortable- with the amazing PDK, an intelligent 4WD system, the clever PTV+ and the finest cockpit I have ever sat in (aircraft or motor vehicle).
Wow.
Just wow.
Great post. I have all season tires on my Macan GTS to cope with winter temps, and find that under very hard driving, the car pushes (understeers) a fair amount. Did your car have summers or all seasons?
My GTS understeers a fair bit with neutral throttle however with a little power it transfers weight off the front and pulls itself around. It really does drive like an awd rear biased vehicle. A bit too much lean for my liking but it is what it is.
I spec'ed my ED GTS with summer tires- and got Pirelli P Zeros vice the Michelin or Continental variations that come totally random (one cannot specify the tire brand).
The Porsche ED driver instructor told me he prefers the Pirellis on the Macan over the others, and he drives them all on the Leipzig track hundreds of times a month. So far they have been fine, crossing the 3 passes with snow on the shoulders of the road was a bit sketch, but have not seen temps below 32 yet, and the roads have been dry when around 40.
The off road performance, which I have used extensively here in the Val d'Orcia, is hard to quantify. I have never lost traction, or been unable to get up a steep grade, but it's pretty obvious that the summer performance tread pattern is completely wrong for the conditions. I pick lots of gravel out of the grooves daily, and have to drive very slowly across rough rocky sections with my 20 inch GTS wheels. The Macan turbo I drove at Leipzig's off road course had 18's with Michelin Latitude all season rubber- and the intelligent AWD, hill mode and OFF ROAD suspension provided a rally car level of ride and performance. (The fact that is was Porsche's demo car helped!)
I do like the P Zero's on the twisties, but I have another 500 miles of break-in before I will select the SPORT PLUS mode and really test them. I definitely do, however, feel the difference the PTV+ provides. I drove a fully spec'ed dealer demo Macan GTS for 1+30 hours in the Malibu Canyons before deciding to buy mine. It had everything but PTV+.
I believe the PTV+ system senses lateral G's and applies the inside rear wheel braking and e-LSD inputs to pivot the chassis through a turn before the body lean and understeer even take place. Mine seems to "squat" or settle (not dive, which is the entire front suspension) into the turns, but only towards the inside front wheel. The selective braking is really the key, which, like an LSD, I suppose, creates a differential rotation between the rear wheels and actually changes the vector that the mass of the vehicle is on. In the PTV+ case, it drives the outside rear tire faster than the e-braked inside rear wheel to rotate the chassis in the direction of the turn. Like stepping on the rudder in a plane, it points the nose (induces yaw), which can result in a "skid" if lateral G limits are exceeded. Since an aircraft banks to turn, it changes heading by "climbing" in the horizontal. The differential PTV+ braking action seems to set up the chassis by "banking" into the turn before the lateral G's upset the chassis = no "skid". It feels predictive, or instantaneous, to me- not reactive like PASM or PDCC.
All of this is, of course, a layman's perception. The "placebo effect" of ordering PTV+ may indeed be affecting what I am sensing. Perhaps the Macan's Air Suspension alone is what impresses me so much. No matter. The thing is a little Swiss Army knife of a vehicle that tackles Alpine pass switchbacks, gravel roads, exposed rock grades, 200kph autobahn blasts and the hilly esses of Tuscany with unreal competence. I am stoked to own this thing:
Last edited by Liste-Renn; 10-03-2017 at 06:55 AM.
Reason: typos
04-06-2017, 05:04 PM
