Porsche Macan Turbo by way of M3 Coupe
09-29-2015, 02:25 PM
#1
Porsche Macan Turbo by way of M3 Coupe
Hey folks -
Recently joined the P family with a 2015 Macan Turbo, Rhodium Silver, RS Spyders. Quick car history - two Audi S4's (a B5 biturbo, then a B7 V8), then an E90 M3 Sedan, and most recently a 2009 E92 M3 Coupe. I see a number of posts from people considering a Macan and either cross-shopping or coming from sports sedans or other midrange sports cars. As someone who still has the M3 memory deep in my bones I thought some of you may find this journey interesting.
First - the 2009 M3 Coupe
This was without a doubt the most exciting car I had ever owned - it was lightly modified w Akrapovic Full Titanium Exhaust, ESS engine tune, Macht Schnell filter, Rogue Pulleys, 20" HRE's and KW V3 Suspension - it was dual-clutch and Azurite Black, which was an Individual Paint Colour option at the time (very rare). HP at the wheels was dyno'd at 375, so probably close to 460hp at the crank and about 350ft/lbs. This is a pretty significant improvement over stock (414hp and 295ft/lbs). I was the second owner - first owner took absolute meticulous care of the car and it lived most of the first half of its life on a lift in his garage. Between the engine and suspension mods, I know by comparison it was a huge improvement over my completely stock '08 6-spd Sedan M3. I did track time in both, and although I'm just an avid amateur I could do respectable lap times at Mosport (1:43-1:45s on street tires). I provide all this info for the following reasons - I am a driver who likes to drive not just arrive, to show that the M3 sports sedan is a very capable car unto itself and it's logical to compare to entry level Porsche ownership, and finally most people who consider making the jump to Porsche from an M3 are likely to do the occasional track day and so they are also concerned at the level of dynamic ability in the car they are going to buy.
So - what was the next car going to be? After a lot of consideration it came down to a few quick choices with quick answers - plus a few more which needed investigation.
Notice there is no Macan Turbo on that list... we will get to that.
BMW M4 - this was the first car I test drove, and there are enough real-world reviews and videos to sink a ship so I won't go into detail. For me, and my driving taste, the M4 was like a muted version of my existing M3. It was about the same power (due to my mods) but with less excitement. I'm sure by the numbers and as a total package, and if I were to track it, it would likely be superior... but it was just a little too much of the same and without the fire breathing loud V8 which was simply amazing. The interior was a big improvement, along with all the techno gizmo's which I do enjoy, but ultimately I just didn't think it would be the winner.
BMW M5 - this was an interesting one - I hadn't considered an M5, but there was a low mileage 2013 F10 model that the dealer was really ready to make a deal on - so I test drove it. Long story short - it was a freight train - just gobs of torque and triple digit speed RIGHT NOW... but it's a big car. It felt big, slightly detached, and didn't seem to have the "M" experience. I've seen all the reviews on this one as well, and I think if I was able to really drive it hard and live with it, it would have been a fun car to have for a year, but ultimately it didn't feel right.
991S - I rented a base 991 in Las Vegas for a week a year ago since I have always wanted a 911 and knew that it would be a great opportunity to live with one for a week. We took two sets of golf clubs, full luggage and left Las Vegas for Palm Springs via the Mojave and Joshua Tree... what an awesome drive, and what an awesome car. Loaded with road trip gear the base 911 was a dream. Lots of real performance, although once fully loaded and with only 350hp it did feel low on power, but the dynamic was there for sure. I knew when I got back to Toronto, a 991S had to be considered. I test drove a number of manual and PDKs - all 2013's with less than 20,000km's and none of them disappointed, it was just a matter of comparing options sheets. Everything was great... but there was also a low km 2012 997 C4 GTS manual....
997 C4 GTS - Having driven half a dozen 991's in the month leading up to this, I had a good feel for the car - but after driving the 997 C4 GTS I immediately felt what all the commotion was about. This car had FEEL! It was like being back in the M3. It was mechanical, it was loud, it told you about every line of paint or a bug on the road you drove over! The interior WAS a little dated by comparison and lacked a few of the refinements of the newer 991... but I think that was the point. It felt a little slower out of corners and off the line then the most recent PDK 991S, but that is to be expected. Once you were moving though it was a proper sports car... just so much communication with the road. I can only imagine what the non-AWD drive would have felt like. So add another fan to the 997 vs 991 debate... I went home that afternoon believing I was going to buy the C4 GTS the next day. Then, on my way out of the dealership a new Macan Turbo was being moved around the showroom..."hmm, that's interesting", I thought.
After driving home and thinking through the whole decision, a few things I couldn't shake...
I live in Toronto. I have no garage. I WILL be driving this in the winter. I will need center locking Winter wheels. I may need a new clutch soon. We have tons of friends and family coming out this summer, I guess I will need to rent an SUV etc etc. So yes, life kicked in. Even with all of these things, I thought I was ready to pull the trigger. There are tons of 911's in Toronto, drive through many neighbourhoods and nobody has a garage, 911's sit out in the snow like they are Toyota RAV4's. It's called Canada, get some good winter tires and suck it up! So what if family is coming - make THEM rent the SUV! They're the ones staying for a week! Center lock winter wheels look sweet! A clutch is meant to be worn out, it means you have a proper car!
But... maybe I should just TRY this Macan thing. So late that night, I made another call to my sales agent and asked to test drive the Macan Turbo the next day so I would know for sure.
When I went into the dealer the next day, I felt like I had some 'splainin' to do... I went through all the debate above with my salesman, and I looked at the Macan and questioned whether it would deliver on the sport aspect and he totally got it - and he said, "Wait until you try the Macan Turbo"
So off we went - and from the moment I first turned the key and zoomed off, it was like I was on a date with... Uma Thurman. Some of you may get this reference, and some may not... but Uma Thurman to me is like the solid "8" of great actresses - she's beautiful to some, not so much to others, but she's an extremely great performer, dependable, versatile and is capable of both wearing a bikini and chopping off bad guys heads with a samurai sword. She's just real-world sexy. THAT is the Macan Turbo. It didn't offer the best of ANY of the qualities I had been on a mission to find, but it is a solid 8 in EVERYTHING. It's a gorgeous car, even for a slightly portly SUV. It's got a sweet stance on the 20" wheels. It has a real PDK, Sport Chrono and launch control. For everyone except a modern sports car owner it's like a rocket ship compared to anything they've been in - and it will do full throttle launches all day long. It carries 4 easily, and 5 with relative comfort. I can put 4 sets of golf clubs in the back without putting the seats down. I can run to the store, or drive twisty country roads with equal satisfaction. If it gets dirty I take it through the car wash. I can't wait for winter in this thing (with winter wheels/tires of course) and to put a snowboard rack on top. As for track days, I have no idea how it ultimately will fare, but I DO plan on getting out to Mosport either once this fall or early next year to test it out - and I fully expect that I will be surprised at its ability. I'm not expecting 911 or even M3 levels of performance, but I think it will be a very fun day. For everyday driving, you need to dip well into highly illegal speeds to make the car even flinch at a corner - it is just so planted. It does understeer naturally, but push past that initial feeling and you can really get it to turn in. It feels like a 911 with a lift kit, like how a 911 rally car might feel. Also note that the Macan is actually on the light side as far as SUV's go - 4200lbs vs 4900lbs for the Cayenne, and only 600lbs more than the old M3 (3600lbs)... so yes, it's still in truck sized proportions, but not as much as you might think - and let's face it, it IS a truck, not a sports car. It has almost every modern techno gadget you could want and it's just a dream on a road trip.
VERDICT:
If you need a single car which does everything at an 8/10 and deals with both everyday life and a 4-season geography, (Canada, Northeast US, Northern Europe etc) - I just can't believe you will be disappointed in a Macan Turbo. I can't comment on the Macan S since I never even drove it - I took one drive in the Turbo and knew it was the right one for me. If you are someone considering a Macan of all things as a second sports car (odd, but there seems to be a number of you out there) you may be somewhat disappointed with the result - but you'll need to reset your expectations! You still need to consider basic physics - it's 4200lbs of steel that sits a foot higher off the ground - it's not going to be a 911!
I do miss the M3, no way around it. It was a beast and I also still think about the 997 C4 GTS, and I KNOW that I would have had the same love affair with it. It very likely could be my next car when I can afford to have a second car and keep it long term, and undercover in the next house which will have a garage. But when that is my reality - lots of other P-car choices also come up - GT3 of any variety, Cayman GT4, maybe even a Boxster or Cabrio plus all the usual non-P suspects when you start cross-shopping a fun car. I know a 911 will be in my not-too-distant-future, but for now, I'm very happy with Uma Thurman.
Recently joined the P family with a 2015 Macan Turbo, Rhodium Silver, RS Spyders. Quick car history - two Audi S4's (a B5 biturbo, then a B7 V8), then an E90 M3 Sedan, and most recently a 2009 E92 M3 Coupe. I see a number of posts from people considering a Macan and either cross-shopping or coming from sports sedans or other midrange sports cars. As someone who still has the M3 memory deep in my bones I thought some of you may find this journey interesting.
First - the 2009 M3 Coupe
This was without a doubt the most exciting car I had ever owned - it was lightly modified w Akrapovic Full Titanium Exhaust, ESS engine tune, Macht Schnell filter, Rogue Pulleys, 20" HRE's and KW V3 Suspension - it was dual-clutch and Azurite Black, which was an Individual Paint Colour option at the time (very rare). HP at the wheels was dyno'd at 375, so probably close to 460hp at the crank and about 350ft/lbs. This is a pretty significant improvement over stock (414hp and 295ft/lbs). I was the second owner - first owner took absolute meticulous care of the car and it lived most of the first half of its life on a lift in his garage. Between the engine and suspension mods, I know by comparison it was a huge improvement over my completely stock '08 6-spd Sedan M3. I did track time in both, and although I'm just an avid amateur I could do respectable lap times at Mosport (1:43-1:45s on street tires). I provide all this info for the following reasons - I am a driver who likes to drive not just arrive, to show that the M3 sports sedan is a very capable car unto itself and it's logical to compare to entry level Porsche ownership, and finally most people who consider making the jump to Porsche from an M3 are likely to do the occasional track day and so they are also concerned at the level of dynamic ability in the car they are going to buy.
So - what was the next car going to be? After a lot of consideration it came down to a few quick choices with quick answers - plus a few more which needed investigation.
- Audi - RS5 too much like the M3 I was coming out of, and too much understeer. Also I've had 2 Audi's in the past, and the wife has had 2 Q5's so we are Audi'd up the wazoo.
- Mercedes - test driven many C63s because I LOVE that engine (6.2L V8) and all the reports are dead on - UNBELIEVABLE engine, but shackled by crappy car feel. With TCS on, the car is CONSTANTLY cutting throttle and babying the car, with TCS off, the car is virtually undriveable. It oversteers everywhere and burns the tires in 3 gears. Also, the Speedstep Automatic tranny in the previous generation C63 MB's was in my humble opinion - junk. Felt far inferior to the DCT and upcoming PDK I was about to test. NEW C63 I understand has corrected many of these issues, but to be honest I'm not in love with the look of it. Lewis Hamilton is slowly making a Mercedes believer out of me, but until the AMG GT-S is in my affordability, MB is off the table.
- Corvette C7 - maybe a serious contender if I didn't live in Toronto and would need a different car for winter - always wanted to try the North American sports car for a stint, and the new Stingray has performance, value and looks (finally) in gobs.
- BMW M4 - the obvious contender.
- BMW M5 - not so obvious but interesting contender.
- Porsche 991S - the eventual step all drivers need to take
- Porsche 997 C4 GTS - a very interesting comparison to the 991S
Notice there is no Macan Turbo on that list... we will get to that.
BMW M4 - this was the first car I test drove, and there are enough real-world reviews and videos to sink a ship so I won't go into detail. For me, and my driving taste, the M4 was like a muted version of my existing M3. It was about the same power (due to my mods) but with less excitement. I'm sure by the numbers and as a total package, and if I were to track it, it would likely be superior... but it was just a little too much of the same and without the fire breathing loud V8 which was simply amazing. The interior was a big improvement, along with all the techno gizmo's which I do enjoy, but ultimately I just didn't think it would be the winner.
BMW M5 - this was an interesting one - I hadn't considered an M5, but there was a low mileage 2013 F10 model that the dealer was really ready to make a deal on - so I test drove it. Long story short - it was a freight train - just gobs of torque and triple digit speed RIGHT NOW... but it's a big car. It felt big, slightly detached, and didn't seem to have the "M" experience. I've seen all the reviews on this one as well, and I think if I was able to really drive it hard and live with it, it would have been a fun car to have for a year, but ultimately it didn't feel right.
991S - I rented a base 991 in Las Vegas for a week a year ago since I have always wanted a 911 and knew that it would be a great opportunity to live with one for a week. We took two sets of golf clubs, full luggage and left Las Vegas for Palm Springs via the Mojave and Joshua Tree... what an awesome drive, and what an awesome car. Loaded with road trip gear the base 911 was a dream. Lots of real performance, although once fully loaded and with only 350hp it did feel low on power, but the dynamic was there for sure. I knew when I got back to Toronto, a 991S had to be considered. I test drove a number of manual and PDKs - all 2013's with less than 20,000km's and none of them disappointed, it was just a matter of comparing options sheets. Everything was great... but there was also a low km 2012 997 C4 GTS manual....
997 C4 GTS - Having driven half a dozen 991's in the month leading up to this, I had a good feel for the car - but after driving the 997 C4 GTS I immediately felt what all the commotion was about. This car had FEEL! It was like being back in the M3. It was mechanical, it was loud, it told you about every line of paint or a bug on the road you drove over! The interior WAS a little dated by comparison and lacked a few of the refinements of the newer 991... but I think that was the point. It felt a little slower out of corners and off the line then the most recent PDK 991S, but that is to be expected. Once you were moving though it was a proper sports car... just so much communication with the road. I can only imagine what the non-AWD drive would have felt like. So add another fan to the 997 vs 991 debate... I went home that afternoon believing I was going to buy the C4 GTS the next day. Then, on my way out of the dealership a new Macan Turbo was being moved around the showroom..."hmm, that's interesting", I thought.
After driving home and thinking through the whole decision, a few things I couldn't shake...
I live in Toronto. I have no garage. I WILL be driving this in the winter. I will need center locking Winter wheels. I may need a new clutch soon. We have tons of friends and family coming out this summer, I guess I will need to rent an SUV etc etc. So yes, life kicked in. Even with all of these things, I thought I was ready to pull the trigger. There are tons of 911's in Toronto, drive through many neighbourhoods and nobody has a garage, 911's sit out in the snow like they are Toyota RAV4's. It's called Canada, get some good winter tires and suck it up! So what if family is coming - make THEM rent the SUV! They're the ones staying for a week! Center lock winter wheels look sweet! A clutch is meant to be worn out, it means you have a proper car!
But... maybe I should just TRY this Macan thing. So late that night, I made another call to my sales agent and asked to test drive the Macan Turbo the next day so I would know for sure.
When I went into the dealer the next day, I felt like I had some 'splainin' to do... I went through all the debate above with my salesman, and I looked at the Macan and questioned whether it would deliver on the sport aspect and he totally got it - and he said, "Wait until you try the Macan Turbo"
So off we went - and from the moment I first turned the key and zoomed off, it was like I was on a date with... Uma Thurman. Some of you may get this reference, and some may not... but Uma Thurman to me is like the solid "8" of great actresses - she's beautiful to some, not so much to others, but she's an extremely great performer, dependable, versatile and is capable of both wearing a bikini and chopping off bad guys heads with a samurai sword. She's just real-world sexy. THAT is the Macan Turbo. It didn't offer the best of ANY of the qualities I had been on a mission to find, but it is a solid 8 in EVERYTHING. It's a gorgeous car, even for a slightly portly SUV. It's got a sweet stance on the 20" wheels. It has a real PDK, Sport Chrono and launch control. For everyone except a modern sports car owner it's like a rocket ship compared to anything they've been in - and it will do full throttle launches all day long. It carries 4 easily, and 5 with relative comfort. I can put 4 sets of golf clubs in the back without putting the seats down. I can run to the store, or drive twisty country roads with equal satisfaction. If it gets dirty I take it through the car wash. I can't wait for winter in this thing (with winter wheels/tires of course) and to put a snowboard rack on top. As for track days, I have no idea how it ultimately will fare, but I DO plan on getting out to Mosport either once this fall or early next year to test it out - and I fully expect that I will be surprised at its ability. I'm not expecting 911 or even M3 levels of performance, but I think it will be a very fun day. For everyday driving, you need to dip well into highly illegal speeds to make the car even flinch at a corner - it is just so planted. It does understeer naturally, but push past that initial feeling and you can really get it to turn in. It feels like a 911 with a lift kit, like how a 911 rally car might feel. Also note that the Macan is actually on the light side as far as SUV's go - 4200lbs vs 4900lbs for the Cayenne, and only 600lbs more than the old M3 (3600lbs)... so yes, it's still in truck sized proportions, but not as much as you might think - and let's face it, it IS a truck, not a sports car. It has almost every modern techno gadget you could want and it's just a dream on a road trip.
VERDICT:
If you need a single car which does everything at an 8/10 and deals with both everyday life and a 4-season geography, (Canada, Northeast US, Northern Europe etc) - I just can't believe you will be disappointed in a Macan Turbo. I can't comment on the Macan S since I never even drove it - I took one drive in the Turbo and knew it was the right one for me. If you are someone considering a Macan of all things as a second sports car (odd, but there seems to be a number of you out there) you may be somewhat disappointed with the result - but you'll need to reset your expectations! You still need to consider basic physics - it's 4200lbs of steel that sits a foot higher off the ground - it's not going to be a 911!
I do miss the M3, no way around it. It was a beast and I also still think about the 997 C4 GTS, and I KNOW that I would have had the same love affair with it. It very likely could be my next car when I can afford to have a second car and keep it long term, and undercover in the next house which will have a garage. But when that is my reality - lots of other P-car choices also come up - GT3 of any variety, Cayman GT4, maybe even a Boxster or Cabrio plus all the usual non-P suspects when you start cross-shopping a fun car. I know a 911 will be in my not-too-distant-future, but for now, I'm very happy with Uma Thurman.
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PCARNTHZST (10-02-2019)
09-29-2015, 02:54 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Nice write up. Congrats on your purchase. Enjoy it.
I have a Macan S and looking at your spectrum of cars you've tested, I'd say the S is not far behind an 8 probably a 7 due to being a half a second slower on the take off.
I have a Macan S and looking at your spectrum of cars you've tested, I'd say the S is not far behind an 8 probably a 7 due to being a half a second slower on the take off.
09-29-2015, 05:12 PM
#3
Was a good read, congrats on the new car.
I was in toronto last month for couple days, saw lots of bmw i8 around the hotel I'm staying, shangrilla @ university drive.
For a side note, there is a Porsche World Road Show going on around the world, a good chance to try almost all their car's line up. It was a day course for only around usd 600 on my case. To me, the 4 doors with closest feel to 991 was panamera gts.
I was in toronto last month for couple days, saw lots of bmw i8 around the hotel I'm staying, shangrilla @ university drive.
For a side note, there is a Porsche World Road Show going on around the world, a good chance to try almost all their car's line up. It was a day course for only around usd 600 on my case. To me, the 4 doors with closest feel to 991 was panamera gts.
09-29-2015, 05:47 PM
#4
You did your home work and thats what you need to do. Reading Magazines for info is just a bunch of BS you need to drive the cars. I live in MN and have some of your issues. Except I have a three car garage and already had a 2012 997 S and a 2010 4 Runner. The 4 Runner was great but I missed the P car excitement in the winter. I fully drank the cool aid and got rid of the 4 Runner and got a 2015 Cayenne S with Air Susp,PDCC, and PTV. It's still Minnesota but super fun all year now. Enjoy your Macan you will have a ball.
10-01-2015, 10:23 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
Great write up and thanks for posting. I agree 100% - it's a strong 8/10 and that's why I have a .2 Spyder for the other 2/10. I do not believe there is any car out there that is a 10/10 and thus the need for two very different cars. And I know what you are talking about taking it through a car wash. No problem.
I have the S and in my hands it's plenty of power and super fun to drive. I am not sure about winter tires out here in the Pacific Wet Coast. I may just still with the All Seasons. What are you looking at putting on?
Have fun and again tx for your write up.
I have the S and in my hands it's plenty of power and super fun to drive. I am not sure about winter tires out here in the Pacific Wet Coast. I may just still with the All Seasons. What are you looking at putting on?
Have fun and again tx for your write up.
10-03-2015, 01:45 AM
#6
I had a 991 S cab and after lease ended, got into a Macan S for a change. It's a sweet ride and just about perfect if you need 4 doors, 5 seats and some space for your junk.
The PDK with paddles is nice but the low RPM hesitation is annoying at times.
Overall, it's the PERFECT adjunct to a 911.
The PDK with paddles is nice but the low RPM hesitation is annoying at times.
Overall, it's the PERFECT adjunct to a 911.
10-05-2015, 11:10 PM
#7
Instructor
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I think you just went through my entire checklist. Eventually, I want to own a second car (Cayman/911) so ended up getting S.
997 C4 GTS would've been my top choice unless I needed an utility vehicle.
997 C4 GTS would've been my top choice unless I needed an utility vehicle.
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10-06-2015, 02:13 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Welcome OP.
I enjoyed the read & loved the Uma Thurman analogy, lol...
GL/Cheers,
B
I enjoyed the read & loved the Uma Thurman analogy, lol...
GL/Cheers,
B
01-21-2019, 11:49 AM
#9
This is still a good read. I was searching for some info on Macans and winter tires and came across this. I am thinking about trading my 911 and GMC for one of these, so I found this interesting. .
01-28-2019, 08:33 PM
#14
Nice story and congrats. I faced a similar decision 3 years ago. Debated between an M3, M5, RS7, and....ended up with a Macan Turbo.
my only disagreement with all that is that the Macan’s *** is much nicer than Uma Thurman’s
my only disagreement with all that is that the Macan’s *** is much nicer than Uma Thurman’s
02-03-2019, 07:49 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
I had a 2008 M3 4 door with a manual. Beast of a car. Had to have your whits about you with stability control off or in dynamic mode. Sold it a couple of years ago and new owner wrote it off a few months after he got it.
I have a 2017 Macan GTS as my daily now and it is such a great all around vehicle. Not as brutal as the M3 but much more refined and user friendly for day to day use.
I have a 2017 Macan GTS as my daily now and it is such a great all around vehicle. Not as brutal as the M3 but much more refined and user friendly for day to day use.