fincher

Haha. I don't do oil changes but I do top off AdBlue when prompted. No need to go to the dealer for it but maybe with Porsche it's a must. With VW, there are simple directions in the manual.

The Porsche tax will be new to me with any model.

There is a reason Porsche offers three power plants. Something for everyone. I also encourage the doubters to take the diesel for a test drive when it comes here. Maybe it will be a complete dud...a failure! Or, one can test drive the Cayenne V6 and Diesel.

Wonder why the diesel pepper has strong sales?

Buckfever

19000/22mpg=863 gallons
19000/32mpg=593 gallons

270 gallons less @$4/gallon= $1080
Here in Lake county regular gas and the diesel are about the same price.

I understand the move away from the 15mpg V8.

I like the torque too.

I also find the equal mpg rating for the S and the turbo suspect at least in terms of real world I don't expect that to hold. The UK guys(adjusting for the difference in gallon size) are reporting great numbers for the diesel and on fresh engines, which should go up a bit.

But if rpilot is right and those are how the real numbers play out, and there's parity in pricing between the diesel and the S. It would be foolish to not reconsider the S. No?

But there are issues of taste and I can agree that Porsche makes diesel sexy.

fincher

Buckfever, I certainly will test drive the gasser. I will even drive the Turbo. I've had my TDI for 2.5 years and it's really fun. Would take something special for me to move back to a gasser. It's so quiet, too.

On a side note, I mostly get my diesel at Ernie's Shell in Vernon Hills. No bio there. They're at $4.09, which is about $0.20 higher than elsewhere in Lake County.

Hope to see you Thursday at the Macan event. My daughter will be with me so I will be easy to spot (or avoid)!

skl

Have a Q5 TDI S-line with sport package with the adaptive suspension. Wish I could get air suspension as I had it on my first generation Cayenne S and loved it. The Q rides pretty well with the 20" wheels- in fact, just did a 1400 mile 2 day trip to AZ in it and it was very comfortable and sport seats very suportive. Didn't want to wait for the Macan diesel.
Love the torque- just changed the oil and filter myself after the dealer did the first one at 5K. Piece of cake- adding ad-blue no big deal either.

May look at Macan diesel in a year or two, but very happy with Q right now.

In fact, going to Macan launch party tomorrow night at Porsche North Scottsdale- do want to see one in person.

Had a Cayenne diesel last summer as a loaner for a couple weeks last summer- that sold me, I just didn't want that big a vehicle for what I needed.

Buckfever

Thanks for the tip on Ernie's. I'll look for you.

fincher

Another convert. Your endorsement speaks volumes.

rpilot

@fincher... We may have gotten off on the wrong foot here... but I think all is good. For the record, I am not "against" diesel cars or the diesel Macan in particular. What buckfever explained with his mileage calculations, is what I was precisely getting at. You may save a thousand in fuel, you add a couple of extra oil changes @ Porsche prices, you add adblue (cheap or expensive) and you may come out a bit ahead or not... but is it really all worth it? Does it make sense except for the idea that you got more mpg? And you are not really helping the environment in any way either.

For the record, if for some reason if I felt the need for a Cayenne size vehicle, the Cayenne in diesel (or Touareg if I wanted to save some money and deal with the nasty VW dealers here) would be my top choices. You asked why the Cayenne diesel was so popular.. Because the baseline price comparison was against the Cayenne, not the Cayenne S and the price difference with normal options (considering the automatic transmission was standard with the diesel) was 1-2K. Also the base cayenne was a bit underpowered IMO for the size of the vehicle even though Porsche made a lot of improvements in drivability in gen 2. Gen 1 was more or less a re bodied Touareg. The Cayenne S cost considerably more and despite EPA numbers being close, the S drank a lot more in the real world making the diesel a VERY viable alternative. I cannot speak for others but in my mind the cayenne is also a proper SUV and as such the Diesel does not offend here.

In case of the Macan, most people (myself included) are looking at it as a swiss army type of vehicle (sports car, kid hauler (not in my case anymore), comfortable cruiser), etc. AND even without testing it yet, I do not believe the Macan S is underpowered in any way. Top end horsepower does matter when you are doing 70 on the highway and want to overtake someone. Now, if you were to compare the Macan diesel with the base Macan (4 cyl) which we may or may not get , the diesel equation may (probably will) change. Somehow the diesel in a sporty car is an anathema, to an enthusiast like me. Hence I was wondering out loud, if it really makes sense.

Finally with the Macan, in case of Macan S and Macan Turbo, you are getting true Porsche engines, dry sump lubrication and all. With the diesel you are getting a VW engine (not good per suzy991, but I have no personal experience with that engine). You want the Macan diesel regardless, get it and enjoy it. Let us know how it is. I was simply making an exception to your blanket statement yesterday that we Americans do not understand modern diesels and that diesel makes sense for most people . Respectfully, some of us do and no, it does not. And that's all I really have to say about diesels this decade .

PS: I am really looking forward to the day I can sell my AVGAS powered single engine piston plane and replace it with a viable diesel (JetA) powered single engine piston plane here in the US.

fincher

@rpilot, yes, all is good here. Keep in mind I am not a Porsche performance enthusiast. If it weren't for the Cayenne, I wouldn't consider any P ride. And Porsche will cater to new markets with the Macan as well using the same formula...something for everyone.

rpilot

Besides the divide by 1.2 to adjust for gallon size, I believe (unless this has changed recently) the cetane number for diesel (representing quality/energy density) of diesel fuel is higher in Europe.

Add to that, lower taxes and/or subsidies on diesel fuel depending on country, lower car registration taxes for diesel at some places, generally makes diesel the best choice in europe and why european car companies have had many decades to perfect the diesel car formula.

fincher

@rpilot, I do think Americans do not understand the modern diesel...not you...but the average American. This is slowly changing.

About 25% of VWs sold here are TDIs. This will continue to increase. Even Chevy and Jeep have brought diesels back to this market in the last year.

Buyers have more choices to make educated decisions on big ticket items. Diesel is a great alternative.

Buckfever

Also in terms of US dollars/US gallon the cost of fuel there is twice as much as here(though I haven't checked recently). So the numbers really start tipping towards the diesel.

I'm no good at forecasting but I'd bet $6/gallon is more likely than us ever seeing $2/gallon again.

KeninBlaine

I fully concur with your statements. The Jetta Sportwagon TDI is a great little car with lots of spunk. As others have said, that torque feels really good, especially combined with the DSG or whatever VW calls their dual clutch tranny.

I expect many Americans, who aren't financially incentivized for diesel like Europeans are, were put off by the dreadful attempts by GM with their early diesels in Oldsmobiles etc., as well as some of the dirty old Rabbits and Jettas still out there spewing black soot everywhere. But if they were to try some of the newer diesels in VW's, MBZ, BMW, and Audi with their better transmissions, I expect they'd be pleasantly surprised. My neighbor bought an ML350 BlueTec 2 years ago just so he could go 600 miles on a tank, and pull a trailer. So even if the overall cost isn't much different, there are other factors at play. I think diesels will play an increasing role in the US as mileage standards keep tightening.

rpilot

Aaaaaaaargh.. Why do I keep getting sucked in to this diesel debate ? Yes, Gas going to $6 is not a matter of if, but when. But if you are going to think of such things (and that is a good thing), you need to really understand the realities of diesel supply and demand in the US, US refinery demand for diesel production for export and refinery-terminal diesel pipeline capacity. Prices may increase, but diesel prices are going to increase more than gasoline. The delta between diesel and gas prices is going to get wider if the current diesel demand trends continue, not smaller. Already Diesel is more expensive in most places. Here in the Atlanta area diesel is around 8-10% higher compared to Premium (and that is in summer). In winter the delta is greater. If compared to regular gas it is 16-20% higher at stations we city/suburban folk visit. It is cheaper if you go to truck stops outside the city, far outer suburbs, but that is a different issue.

rpilot

I do not disagree with you... but let me share my thoughts of some of those numbers.

The 25% VW diesel sales (23.5% to be specific) still represents a portion of the total diesel sales in the USA for consumer cars and trucks at around 1% and this includes the heavy duty diesel trucks (ram, chevy, ford, etc).

The reason VW sells so many diesels is clear.. You have a person who wants to do something different than your japanese reliable sedan and wants a germanic car but cannot swing a BMW, Audi and Porsche, VW is the logical choice.. and when they see the choices, ie: Gas engine getting 22/ 28 vs 30/42 for diesel, the gas engine sounds crappy, the diesel is smooth, the choice on which to pick becomes clear. Even the clean diesels from VW , 2.0L and under (with the exception of the Passat) have not required Adblue. That is about to change (or recently changed) with the new gen Golf/Jetta/Beetle platform in the 2014/2015 model years. Further VW gas engines have been historically unreliable compared to their non-adblue diesel counterparts.

Let's try to look at this differently.. I want an small sedan.. Do I buy a Honda Civic which gives me 30/40 gas mileage with 3.50 regular as and utter reliability or do I buy a VW Jetta/Golf/Beetle because they look snazzier and give me 31/45 diesel mileage at 4.10 a gallon? I think the answer is clear to many. They stay with the Japanese or American cars.

It only matters when you go onto the VW lot commited to buying a VW, and find that their gas engines are extremely inefficient but you still want a cool beetle or golf or Touareg? in your case and so the diesel becomes a logical choice when the diesel fuel economy is 50-75% better, especially on the highway. That equation may also change for VW, since their newer 1.8 gas engines are more fuel efficient in the newer generation cars. It goes back to what I said earlier.. the reasons they sell well is because VW is leveraging what they do best simply because they are unable to do better with gasoline. It is the reason they sell close to 25% diesel while the market share is less than 1% overall for the US.

Putting it even simply, saying VW sells 25% diesels is analogous to saying that that 35% of Porsche sales are sports cars (That is what they do). It does not mean sports cars makes sense for 35% of the US population or that pure sports cars are any more than 5% of total consumer car sales.

Yes, diesel has more torque at the lower end even in the economy model Jettas, but the average joe/ jill cant even use the damn torque he / she has now properly. And for the porsche driving enthusiast, since the gas engine and the diesel engine both have a lot of torque with lesser mileage differential, then it becomes a tricky choice.

Buckfever

But I like you pushing me.