cometguy

Some interesting news from Audi:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-geneva-reveal

So Audi is coming out with a PHEV version of the Q5, which is basically the same size as the Macan, and they're using the same 14-kWh battery pack that Porsche E-Hybrids have for Panamera and Cayenne. So I'm hopeful that Porsche might create a Macan in E-Hybrid form to "bridge" the transition from ICE to EV... No way I'm buying a Q5.

usctrojanGT3

I wouldn't mind an E--Hybrid Macan.

chuckbdc

I believe that natural gas fired generation plants (more economical than coal fired plants) give the emissions and economic advantage to electric vehicles.

But I suspect the real reason for the manufacturers enthusiasm is that given the technology they will ultimately be cheaper to produce because they are mechanically far simpler. A small reasonable light motor at each wheel, flexibility in battery shape and location, and computer control means far fewer parts and all that goes with that, from supply chain to maintenance across model ranges. Most daily usage is within attainable ranges for battery power now and that will continue to improve even as the infrastructure for recharging gets diffused.

In Porsche's case it should let them produce whatever conventionally powered sports cars they want, and I hope to remain a customer for gas fueled flat sixers for ever. A track experience with a Panamera Turbo Sport Tourismo E-Hybrid has me convinced that hybrid versions will be more than acceptable to a lot of Macan and 911 diehards.

Oh- Porsche just announced that the gas powered version will continue in production when the E version appears.

DB_NC_95C2

I just love (NOT) the way that Porsche does the development work and then Audi jumps in like 'aren't we special?'
1) Williams F1/Porsche-developed flywheel in the 911 Hybrid racer and then Audi sticks it in their LMP1H car
2) Porsche develops both the new modular platform and the new e-platform, then VWAG builds other brand vehicles on it
3) Porsche develops battery technology and hybrid drive technology for the LMP1H and now it gets shared across other VWAG brands

it's clear who is the gem in the VWAG stable, who has the best design, technology, interiors, performance, and (yes) profit

re: design, I do NOT count the monstrosity just released as the 992 in that 'best' description, it's uncohesive design is just fugly, and as evidence here is a 991/992
side by side comparison https://www.motoringresearch.com/car...e-911-old-new/

roule

The electrical situation is changing faster than some people are willing to believe. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38252

Even in Coal Country, black gold is dying because it is uneconomical to mine and transport, not to mention the costly smokestack scrubbers needed to prevent unacceptable emissions (those are emissions that even the most ardent coal supporter would agree are too much!). Bottom line, coal was surpassed by natural gas as the leading electricity generating fuel back in 2016 and it's only swung faster since then. That's the reality.

In the US, the EIA https://www.eia.gov/electricity/ reports that 60% of new generation was natural gas (19.3 gigawatts). That was followed by wind and solar generation (6.6 GW and 4.9 GW, respectively). 12.9 GW of coal plants were retired, no new coal fired powerplants were built. Renewable electricity generation has doubled since 2008. When natural gas plays out, as it eventually will, then solar and wind will only accelerate because it is easier to consumerize/democratize (solar roofs in the south, wind turbines in the midwest, hydro in the mountains,etc). Secondary market for coal is bleak too. Nobody is interested in shoveling coal to heat their homes or power their Stanley Steamer automobiles. Again, the EIA projections show neither coal nor nuclear will ever be the economic choice. Regardless of emissions or cleanliness, natural gas is #1 and if that fails, a mix of renewables is the next best choice. If you don't agree, take your case to the EIA: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/im....06/chart2.png So like it or not, even the slow changing US is adopting clean energy, but not because it's cleaner. Because it's more economical.

All this said, I am concerned that battery electric vehicles will always be heavy and therefore less fun. I hope Porsche isn't sucked immediately into the all-electric VW vision that the company has chosen. I get it that large automakers cannot focus on small geographic areas. The Macan has to sell in China, the US, and Europe. I do worry that the infrastructure in rural areas, as always, will lag far behind. So Porsche will have to maintain some gas burners for the foreseeable future, even if the majority of their affluent customers are urbanites who may prefer electric cars.

Phil G.

I've read that Porsche plans to have 50% of their cars electric within the next 5 years or so. There was a caveat that they planned to keep gasoline powered Macans in their lineup. I can't imagine they would completely eliminate currently configured SUVs altogether, but rather add electric and hybrid cars to select Macan models. Hope I'm not wrong about this.

visitador

From the other thread:

https://presse.porsche.de/prod/press...rsionid=950332

There is no ambiguity that all next generation Macans are going to be electric. I read somewhere else that if you want an ICE or hybrid suv, your choice is going to be Cayenne.

Also, on the sports car side, the 718 replacement is going to be all electric, leaving the 992 to be the ICE or hybrid.

On the same logic, for four door sedans, Taycan is electric while Panamera is ICE or hybrid

cometguy

The new-generation electric Macan will be manufactured starting at the "beginning of the next decade", which means 2021 or 2022. The revised version of the ICE Macan will continue to be built along with that electric version, possibly for five years or more; Porsche has not made any comment about when they will discontinue the ICE-only Macan. I'm still hoping that they will bring in a "bridge" Macan in the form of an E-Hybrid version.

cometguy

It seems that Porsche is now saying that there will be a Macan E-Hybrid. Here's one reference, indicating the the Macan E-Hybrid will be built on the current platform and not on the forthcoming new electric-Macan platform:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...and-ev-options

Since CEO Blume said in an interview several months ago that the E-Hybrid battery technology has improved, with an inferred 25- to 30-percent improvement in range starting with MY2020 or MY2021, and since the Macan is smaller and lighter than the Panamera and Cayenne, I am hopeful that the Macan E-Hybrid will have all-electric warm-weather range of 30-40 miles.

krabman

Works for me, I think gas-electric is excellent and most particularly so in crossovers. My Panny is gas but I'd like to get my crossover in hybrid form and I want a small one to use at the apartment. People are hesitant about hybrids but most I know are this way because they haven't experienced them. I think when more people get a taste of the technology it will take off quickly.

cometguy

Yes, I think that if more people tried PHEVs, they'd like them. Very few people have actually tried them. I owned an ICE-only 2015 Panamera 4 prior to my buying a 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid Sport Turismo last year; the difference is night-and-day better in the E-Hybrid. I'd never buy another ICE-only Panamera again -- the E-Hybrid is that good, and that much fun. I bought a 2019 Macan last month because I needed something that is a little more practical than the Panamera for some daily uses, but I did so reluctantly because I no longer want ICE-only vehicles; I hope that my new Macan is the last ICE-only vehicle that I ever buy.

krabman

Seems like it would be a few years out to me: I expect they'll want to use the 8 speed to leverage the money already spent there and you have to figure at this point they're going to want to get the higher capacity battery on board also and that sounds like 21 before it's ready. The way I read the tea leaves they're hedging their bets a little bit and I always thought the all electric Macan announcement was simply testing the waters. If a hybrid is coming along in the next few years development would already be ongoing and we should be seeing something concrete before too long. I remain hopeful.

RED HORSE

I started driving Porsches in 1971, and currently have two, a Macan Sport Edition and a Cayenne Turbo. If I live long enough to need to replace one of them and the only thing available is electric, then I won't be purchasing another Porsche. Should the Government force, and it will take force, me into an electric I'm not sure what it will be, likely a pickup truck.

krabman

Hang in there. I'm old too and I get it: I actually like engines, it's part of the pleasure. Wishful thinking has got me in trouble before but I think it's unlikely that Porsche will remove it's most sold car from the short lists of so many buyers. Lets face it, no matter how much you like electric the infrastructure is not here yet. And yeah, I know you can watch videos of Tesla owners who didn't mind going hours out of there way to get to a motel with charging available nearby but that doesn't describe what a whole lot of people want. Gas-electric on the other hand has an answer for that problem and I'm on board with it in the interim between now and when all electric actually becomes viable for real people who aren't invested in pretending they don't mind going out of their way so they can plug in.

chuckbdc

I took a test drive in Audi's new all E SUV. Good but not excellent dynamics- not as good as the Macan or even an S5. But the strangest thing is the approach to interior style and feel.

Whereas for me Porsche is best combo of lux and sportiness, and Audi is all superb look and feel, their I-thing was Prius-futureisic, hard edge and uninspired. Stange.

Oh, and it was recalled as a fire hazard a few days after the test drive!