ABS now in IMSA platinum masters, how about pca?
02-20-2018, 01:18 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
ABS now in IMSA platinum masters, how about pca?
i think pca generally requires the cups to run in the same configuration as imsa gt3 cups. or maybe its factory?
but i just read taht imsa gt3 cup series in the platinum masters now is going abs....
that would be a great thing to create maybe a subclass in gtc6 and 7 to allow abs without forcing guys to necessarily have to go full GTA3 with monster motors, aero, bodywork,e tc.
thoughts on this? any plans for it in pca?
but i just read taht imsa gt3 cup series in the platinum masters now is going abs....
that would be a great thing to create maybe a subclass in gtc6 and 7 to allow abs without forcing guys to necessarily have to go full GTA3 with monster motors, aero, bodywork,e tc.
thoughts on this? any plans for it in pca?
02-20-2018, 04:05 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Fully support it and hope it’s adopted for PCA. No need for Masters or club racers to be burning thru tires or worse.
Last edited by Nizer; 02-20-2018 at 07:19 PM.
02-20-2018, 07:33 PM
#4
Nordschleife Master
Imsa just did it for the Masters Class only at this time. Only for the current 2018 cars is this a plug and play OPTION. Plus it is almost $14000. Dont hold your breath for PCA. Since it didnt come on your car from the factory, then if you put it on then plan on GTAx
02-20-2018, 11:12 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
02-21-2018, 07:49 AM
#7
Rennlist Member
If the wiring harness for ABS is already installed in the car then it should cost considerably less than 14K for just the ABS unit but we all know how the Porsche tax can be sometimes. Very curious to know more about the '18 wiring. Wish we looked a little harder at the 18 we had in the shop for a few weeks.
The M4 kit for the 991 is a pretty straight forward install. The .1 and .2 kits are basically the same.
The M4 kit for the 991 is a pretty straight forward install. The .1 and .2 kits are basically the same.
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02-21-2018, 10:00 AM
#8
Nordschleife Master
On an '18 the kit (developed by Porsche and Manthey so hence the $14K price tag and NO DISCOUNTS to us shops) is supposed to be able to be installed in 2-3 hours from what I heard. Now I have not done it, but that seems way too easy.
02-21-2018, 01:48 PM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
just a fwiw..
just a point of clarification, from pmna. 2017 and 2018s are identical. the kit is the same, plug and play. pmna says 4 hours.
Last edited by spg993tt; 03-05-2018 at 04:43 PM.
03-13-2018, 08:48 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
installed the abs today. started at like 10am, by 2 it was all in hardware wise, another 30minutes to bleed it mechanically (kit had new masters etc). the kit was as simple plug and play , all brackets, hoses, tubes, washers, bolts, and masters. i then loaded the cosworth new dash config which shows the abs state (setting switch position), on the dash, the ecu software loaded, and then the electronic abs bleeding wizard. by 3pm done a to z. looks nice, and is a great kit. expensive but great.
03-14-2018, 01:25 AM
#12
Just curious as to why one would want ABS? When I first got my Cup last year, it seemed that everyone recommended ABS. I wanted to learn the car and car control. I started with no ABS and using take offs for my first 15 sets of tires. It has helped me understand the car so much better.
Stock brakes on a Cup can be pushed harder than most ever dream of. It is so satisfying to brake the non abs car to the limit and back off just at the right time. Excellent source of feedback and understanding the dynamics of the Cup. The most important thing is to have tire pressures correct and to have the bias set right.
Unless you plan on driving in the rain a lot, not much reason for ABS.
Braking is a very important aspect of car control as are so many other factors. To learn sans ABS will make anyone a better driver. There are no short cuts. I am now running Pirelli Trophy Cup and guess what, no ABS.
To each their own. I was scared ****less driving the Cup the first time at Laguna and no worries. You can brake easy up to 1.2 g and if you are really good to 1.5 g's. No drama unless you don't learn how to brake a Cup. It is pretty simple. Stab the brakes super hard, bleed off, hold a small amount of trail. That's it. No magic potion, no reason to be scared.
By the way, you will know when you push to hard. Wheel locks, you feel it, see a red indicator, maybe some smoke. Simple, just lift and reengage.
In 15 sets of tires, I have only flat spotted one time and that was after 20 cycles so I didn't really care. Most of the time you can work the flat spot out. Do I lock up the brakes ever, all the time
Stock brakes on a Cup can be pushed harder than most ever dream of. It is so satisfying to brake the non abs car to the limit and back off just at the right time. Excellent source of feedback and understanding the dynamics of the Cup. The most important thing is to have tire pressures correct and to have the bias set right.
Unless you plan on driving in the rain a lot, not much reason for ABS.
Braking is a very important aspect of car control as are so many other factors. To learn sans ABS will make anyone a better driver. There are no short cuts. I am now running Pirelli Trophy Cup and guess what, no ABS.
To each their own. I was scared ****less driving the Cup the first time at Laguna and no worries. You can brake easy up to 1.2 g and if you are really good to 1.5 g's. No drama unless you don't learn how to brake a Cup. It is pretty simple. Stab the brakes super hard, bleed off, hold a small amount of trail. That's it. No magic potion, no reason to be scared.
By the way, you will know when you push to hard. Wheel locks, you feel it, see a red indicator, maybe some smoke. Simple, just lift and reengage.
In 15 sets of tires, I have only flat spotted one time and that was after 20 cycles so I didn't really care. Most of the time you can work the flat spot out. Do I lock up the brakes ever, all the time
03-14-2018, 02:49 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
we just differ in opinion. i've owned many cup cars and Rs, and caymans with factory and caymans with after-market (teves or bosch ) abs. you could look up my track records and results. lets presume i understand the car, the handling, etc.
i would suggest to you that the GT3rs, all the GT4s, most of the spec series permit and most require ABS. and i doubt that in any spec series that permits abs, that a abs-permitted car would ever not have ABS, thats how much abs can help the car competitively and for all the other reasons (less risk of wrecking, flat spotting, etc.) the IMSA series itself for that Platinium masters class is now requiring it on the cups which is the primary reason i got it.
modern race abs is not anything like street abs, and can be setup at a multitude of levels. the bosch and teves both allow you to tweak and adjust the settings for dry or rain and then even levels within the dry. you can set it up (as i do) so its almost like not having ABS unless of course you. that intermediate driver/speed, when a driver is good in the car, not super fast yet, but getting faster, ...they are biting on chunks of time and improving which is great....but its also when a mistake comes out of nowhere. And when you're a real 10/10ths in the car, it can happen a lot quicker and sooner than you think. and if might happen to the person behind you or in front of you. I think IMSA probably wants to see cleaner racing and its probably worth 1/2 to 3/4 of a second a lap. i know thats a horrible generality to throw out there but im guessing 1/2 at limerock, maybe 3/4 to 1 at Watkins. at sebring withe bumps in the brake zone, maybe a whole lot more. my guess, a full brake marker you can bite off more.
your points about learning without it are super correct. there could be drivers that grow up never knowing heel toe, who arent any good at it, dont know the mastery and art of it. and dont need to. and other than the glory of it, in some cars, not sure they need to know it other than being a complete, well rounded driver. but if you only ever drive current modern cars, paddles is all you need to know to flick.
me, i love the idea of abs, and think if any race group could use it, its some of the pca races where a lot of wrecks happen with cars locking up.
i would suggest to you that the GT3rs, all the GT4s, most of the spec series permit and most require ABS. and i doubt that in any spec series that permits abs, that a abs-permitted car would ever not have ABS, thats how much abs can help the car competitively and for all the other reasons (less risk of wrecking, flat spotting, etc.) the IMSA series itself for that Platinium masters class is now requiring it on the cups which is the primary reason i got it.
modern race abs is not anything like street abs, and can be setup at a multitude of levels. the bosch and teves both allow you to tweak and adjust the settings for dry or rain and then even levels within the dry. you can set it up (as i do) so its almost like not having ABS unless of course you. that intermediate driver/speed, when a driver is good in the car, not super fast yet, but getting faster, ...they are biting on chunks of time and improving which is great....but its also when a mistake comes out of nowhere. And when you're a real 10/10ths in the car, it can happen a lot quicker and sooner than you think. and if might happen to the person behind you or in front of you. I think IMSA probably wants to see cleaner racing and its probably worth 1/2 to 3/4 of a second a lap. i know thats a horrible generality to throw out there but im guessing 1/2 at limerock, maybe 3/4 to 1 at Watkins. at sebring withe bumps in the brake zone, maybe a whole lot more. my guess, a full brake marker you can bite off more.
your points about learning without it are super correct. there could be drivers that grow up never knowing heel toe, who arent any good at it, dont know the mastery and art of it. and dont need to. and other than the glory of it, in some cars, not sure they need to know it other than being a complete, well rounded driver. but if you only ever drive current modern cars, paddles is all you need to know to flick.
me, i love the idea of abs, and think if any race group could use it, its some of the pca races where a lot of wrecks happen with cars locking up.
Just curious as to why one would want ABS? When I first got my Cup last year, it seemed that everyone recommended ABS. I wanted to learn the car and car control. I started with no ABS and using take offs for my first 15 sets of tires. It has helped me understand the car so much better.
Stock brakes on a Cup can be pushed harder than most ever dream of. It is so satisfying to brake the non abs car to the limit and back off just at the right time. Excellent source of feedback and understanding the dynamics of the Cup. The most important thing is to have tire pressures correct and to have the bias set right.
Unless you plan on driving in the rain a lot, not much reason for ABS.
Braking is a very important aspect of car control as are so many other factors. To learn sans ABS will make anyone a better driver. There are no short cuts. I am now running Pirelli Trophy Cup and guess what, no ABS.
To each their own. I was scared ****less driving the Cup the first time at Laguna and no worries. You can brake easy up to 1.2 g and if you are really good to 1.5 g's. No drama unless you don't learn how to brake a Cup. It is pretty simple. Stab the brakes super hard, bleed off, hold a small amount of trail. That's it. No magic potion, no reason to be scared.
By the way, you will know when you push to hard. Wheel locks, you feel it, see a red indicator, maybe some smoke. Simple, just lift and reengage.
In 15 sets of tires, I have only flat spotted one time and that was after 20 cycles so I didn't really care. Most of the time you can work the flat spot out. Do I lock up the brakes ever, all the time
Stock brakes on a Cup can be pushed harder than most ever dream of. It is so satisfying to brake the non abs car to the limit and back off just at the right time. Excellent source of feedback and understanding the dynamics of the Cup. The most important thing is to have tire pressures correct and to have the bias set right.
Unless you plan on driving in the rain a lot, not much reason for ABS.
Braking is a very important aspect of car control as are so many other factors. To learn sans ABS will make anyone a better driver. There are no short cuts. I am now running Pirelli Trophy Cup and guess what, no ABS.
To each their own. I was scared ****less driving the Cup the first time at Laguna and no worries. You can brake easy up to 1.2 g and if you are really good to 1.5 g's. No drama unless you don't learn how to brake a Cup. It is pretty simple. Stab the brakes super hard, bleed off, hold a small amount of trail. That's it. No magic potion, no reason to be scared.
By the way, you will know when you push to hard. Wheel locks, you feel it, see a red indicator, maybe some smoke. Simple, just lift and reengage.
In 15 sets of tires, I have only flat spotted one time and that was after 20 cycles so I didn't really care. Most of the time you can work the flat spot out. Do I lock up the brakes ever, all the time
Last edited by spg993tt; 03-14-2018 at 06:07 AM.
03-14-2018, 09:18 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
installed the abs today. started at like 10am, by 2 it was all in hardware wise, another 30minutes to bleed it mechanically (kit had new masters etc). the kit was as simple plug and play , all brackets, hoses, tubes, washers, bolts, and masters. i then loaded the cosworth new dash config which shows the abs state (setting switch position), on the dash, the ecu software loaded, and then the electronic abs bleeding wizard. by 3pm done a to z. looks nice, and is a great kit. expensive but great.
03-14-2018, 10:21 AM
#15
Nordschleife Master
installed the abs today. started at like 10am, by 2 it was all in hardware wise, another 30minutes to bleed it mechanically (kit had new masters etc). the kit was as simple plug and play , all brackets, hoses, tubes, washers, bolts, and masters. i then loaded the cosworth new dash config which shows the abs state (setting switch position), on the dash, the ecu software loaded, and then the electronic abs bleeding wizard. by 3pm done a to z. looks nice, and is a great kit. expensive but great.
