powdrhound

So here is a question business ethics question for you guys. I’ve been buying and selling parts on various forums for many years and have never run into a situation like this before either with sellers or buyers.

I earlier this week I found a gearbox advertised on Ebay advertised by one of the members here. The Ebay listed the seller’s phone number number to call with any questions. I called the seller in the afternoon and after a lengthy discussion we came to an agreement on price, payment, shipping information, etc. It was during this conversation that we both realized we were on Rennlist here. This gave me a warm and fuzzy because I alway to prefer doing business with fellow gear heads here. Since I have access to Porsche Motorsport parts, the seller also asked me if I could give him a quote on a laundry list of parts which he’s looking to purchase. I agreed to do so as my way of extending thanks to a fellow Rennlister for what I perceived to be a very smooth transaction regarding the purchase of the gearbox.

The seller asked me to email him my information so he could send me an official invoice from his company with the various “sold as is” disclaimers. I emailed him everything as requested as soon as we hung up the phone that afternoon.

Early the following morning I get an email from him (which he sent after midnight) with the payment wiring instructions and the list of parts he wanted a quote on. I immediately replied to his email stating that I am transferring funds from my broker account to my business account and will be remitting payment as soon as the transfer is done, likely by the end of the day, next day at the latest. I also told him I contacted my rep in Europe and would have his parts quote ready in a few days.

On my way to the bank that afternoon around 3pm to wire the funds, I get an email from the seller stating that he is sorry but that he sold the transmission to a buyer who just paid his original “buy it now” price on ebay. He said he never took the the listing down as he does not consider anything sold until he receives payment. He said he was sorry but does not feel that selling the transmission to another buyer was unethical because he has not received any money from me yet. He told me that the invoice he emailed me which was clearly labeled “invoice” was merely a quote and not an agreement to sell. WTF? A copy of the "invoice" is below with the personal items x'd out.

Now, my question is, am I crazy in thinking the this is totally an unethical way to conduct business? How do you guys see it?

Whenever I sell something to someone and we agree on the terms, I consider the item sold to that person unless payment is not made within a reasonable amount of time and the buyer does not respond to my query. Depending on circumstances, I may ask for a deposit to hold the item up front. Nevertheless, AFTER I’ve entered into a verbal sale agreement and submitted an invoice to a buyer, I have personally NEVER EVER sold or would sell an item to another individual to make an extra few bucks. I’ve also had items listed on ebay that I have sold outside of ebay and forgot to take the listing down. Subsequently someone purchased the item on ebay. I immediately refunded their money and contacted them stating that the item is no longer available. This to me is the proper way to handle this and should have been done in this case. Is it not? Just curious to see how you guys conduct business or would expect others to act in a similar situation.

What blows me away is that this seller is very active in the sale of race parts. I just have not come across any guys in this small community that conduct themselves in what I consider an underhanded fashion. Happy Easter everyone…


INVOICE

SELLER: xxxx xxxxx
xxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx
xxxxxx,xx xxxxx
Cell xxx-xxx-xxxx

BUYER:
xxxx xxxxxxxxx
xxx xxxx xxxxx xxxx
xxxxx,xx xxxxx
Cell xxx-xxx-xxxx

Send to:
xxxx xxxxxxx


DATE 4/12/2017
INVOICE:

DESCRIPTION OF GOODS:
QTY- 1 Low Miles xxx xxxxxx Gear Box...............$x.xxxxx.xx USD plus cup shift cable set
Insured Shipping...............................................Buyer will arrange
Total.................................................................$x ,xxx USD


TERMS OF DELIVERY: Seller shall ship goods within 10 days unless otherwise agreed to with the buyer.

TERMS OF PAYMENT: Check, Bank Wire Transfer (details listed below) or Paypal or money transfer prior to shipment – Paypal using the “FAMILY or FRIENDS PAYMENT” option or buyer agrees to pay the paypal related fees. Paypal payments can be sent to xxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com

https://www.paypal.com/

DISCLAIMER OF EXPRESS & IMPLIED WARRANTIES: The goods sold under this Memorandum of sale are purchased by the Buyer on an “AS IS” basis and Seller makes NO REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, AS TO ANY MATTER WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE DESIGN OR CONDITION OF THE GOODS, ITS MERCHANTABILITY OR ITS FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR THE QUALITY OF THE MATERIALS OR WORKMANSHIP. If any model or sample was shown to the Buyer, that model or sample was used merely to illustrate the general type and quality of the goods and not to represent that the goods would necessarily conform to the model or sample.

APPLICABLE LAW: This memorandum of Sale shall be governed by the Uniform Commercial Code as adopted in the State of California as effective and in force on the date hereof.

Bank Wire Details:
xxxx xxxxxx
xxxx xxxxxxxx
xxx xxxxxxx

Swift code xxxxxxxxx

Account Number xxxxxxxxx
Routing Number xxxxxxxxx

Jferrante

Sorry to hear John - clearly he did it to make the few extra $'s on the buy it now price but with eBay and PayPal fees he might even be worse off since they take a decent chunk. I have sold some larger items on their and I think eBay takes a hefty 10% plus PayPal on regular goods. Unethical, yes in my book..

808Bill

First come first serve with cash in hand. Now had you put a small deposit and asked him to hold it for two days, different story...He should have told you that he was leaving the ad up though.

Viperbob1

In the universe of selling parts I go by the first one that comes to the plate with money gets it. I tell this to everyone to at least submit a deposit in some fashion so they have skin in the game and I stop selling. Now with Rennlisters I keep the policy of if you tell me you want it, its yours and I cancel all sales activities including eBay. We can work out the payment. Now this still has caused conflict with Rennlisters on numerous occasions. I get the I want it subject to my shop agreeing or some such caveat. I say that it is still available then and numerous times the item sold between what can be days from when we originally spoke and then customer gets upset(as many things I find are difficult to get) thinking I was in some way holding these parts waiting for some non-agreed time schedule for them to come back and give me a yes or no.

In your case the seller should have recognized the complexity of a transfer and the time required. Worst case they should have ask for a deposit to commit on both sides or explain until transfer happens it aint sold...

powdrhound

That's exactly how I do it Bob. I consider vast majority of Rennlisters as straight up guys and thus a word is sufficient to hold the item for a reasonable time. In this case I could not send payment right away as he was going to email me the bank wire instructions which he did around midnight later that day. By the time I could get to the bank the next day, he sold it. I asked him before getting off the phone if he needed anything else from me and he said no that it will all be in his invoice. If he said, hey, paypal me a $1000 to hold it than I would have done that no problem. He just seemed like a straight shooter so I didn't expect he'd pull the rug out. We spent a half hour on the phone trying to iron out the details. It was a done deal in my book. Lesson learned.

powdrhound

Thanks Joe. In the end it would have been pretty much a wash as the fees are about what the discount on the item was. My point is, when I tell someone the "we have a deal", than my word is my bond. I just won't screw guys by selling stuff from under them after agreeing to a sale. Not my style...

bpu699

Sorry it happened... Brush it off...

I saw an ad for a Rollcage, agreed to buy it. First guy and all. Seller sold to someone else that was closer.

Many variations on that...

Not cool, but car dealers do the same. You can have an accepted offer, be ready to drive and get it, and they sell it from under you...

Not right, not wrong, it happens.

Sorry.

powdrhound

Yeah, no biggie. Just surprised me as something like this has never happened to me with someone that I get good vibes from. I conduct business differently, certainly not like a slime ball car salesman. I just tend to hold others to the same standard I hold myself, but I guess I'm in a relative minority. Lesson learned..

analogmike

sleazy.

uscarrera

My experience has been that a number of folks use vague language when inquiring about parts I am selling words like "interested" "want" "considering" etc are not commitments to buy. I too extend payment time as a courtesy to Rennlist and Pelican members but after what I consider enough time to pay especially in a PayPal environment I contact committed buyer to ask if still interested and give a time frame I will wait for payment before moving on.
Rich

Mike Murphy

I don't have experience selling car parts, but I sell a lot of items on craigslist, EBay, other forum sites, and I sell technology for a living.

When you give someone your word to sell them something, or you tell someone that you are going to buy something, it's a verbal contract. Now, if there is ever a chance in hell that it could be sold to or from someone else, it should be made clear at that time. Most people who give a verbal, follow it up with "I'm leaving this online, so better buy it quick," or "I'll take it offline so that nobody buys it."

So, yeah, the un-ethics are pretty clear in my book in this case, but again, if there's something special about automotive parts that differs from most other things that people buy/sell in life, then I stand corrected.

LexVan

This is what happens when you take the eBay sales process "off line". You tried buying it without going through the proper eBay process. The seller forgot to cancel the Ebay listing, and someone else came in and hit the "buy it now" button. Maybe you both screwed up???

What about the other guy who hit the "buy it now" button? What if he didn't get the item? Think how mad/upset he'd be.

Sorry for your problems. Sounds like the seller lost out, since you were going to help him get costly Motorsport parts at cost (very nice gesture on your behalf).

jdistefa

Unethical. And frustrating. But maybe you dodged a bullet.

GTgears

I doubt a guy like this "forgot" to pull the ad. Not how to do business.

Now the rennlist member who promised to call with a credit card on Monday who still hadn't called a week later? Yeah, I sold the part to someone else.

Nizer

+1