GTC side windows
05-15-2008, 02:50 PM
#1
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GTC side windows
Is it just me that has concerns about what was written in the latest PCA CR news in the article titled 2009 Rules Preview?
Paraphrasing from the section about GT, GTA, and GTC3/4:
That scrutineers don't like the cup car side windows,
That corner workers can't get the window off without removing the door,
That PCA cannot determine which side windows are removable easily,
That the doors fall off after minor contacts,
I'm not sure I like where they are headed with these comments.
Paraphrasing from the section about GT, GTA, and GTC3/4:
That scrutineers don't like the cup car side windows,
That corner workers can't get the window off without removing the door,
That PCA cannot determine which side windows are removable easily,
That the doors fall off after minor contacts,
I'm not sure I like where they are headed with these comments.
05-15-2008, 06:27 PM
#2
Donna's primary concern was not the windows really but the lack of window nets on cars with doors that fall off easily in a light contact. My bet is that window nets will be mandated(big deal, put one in the day I got my new cup from PMS anyway). Seems like a smart addition to me. I dont think You will be asked to remove Your windows if that's Your concern.
05-16-2008, 08:27 AM
#4
Nordschleife Master
I am a scruit and I don't like the way the current rule is written because is is impossibe to enforce consistently. As written today, there are few side windows that meet the criteria of the rules, ie removable in an emergency. The GT3 cup windows certianly do not since they are glued in. I don't have a problem with the windows at all and would simply like to see the lexan window rule disappear completely.
05-16-2008, 12:09 PM
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Geoffrey, its is good to read that at least one scrutineer doesn't "hate" the side windows. You are correct that the way the rule reads now is difficult to enforce.
In 2006 there was a slight modification to Safety rule 8 with the language added, “Factory plastic windows may substitute for…if the plastic window was designed for and delivered in that model…”
I wish they would go back to that version.
My opinion on this is different from Glen's. When, referring to the side windows it says, "The only argument in favor is that they are allowed in some race series." This seems to me that there may be some bias against them. Actually there are several reasons why the windows should be in place. I think that where PCA is headed will be to prohibit side windows, require a safety net and require door hinge bolts that will prevent you from lifting the door off easily.
I for prefer to run with the windows on.
In 2006 there was a slight modification to Safety rule 8 with the language added, “Factory plastic windows may substitute for…if the plastic window was designed for and delivered in that model…”
I wish they would go back to that version.
My opinion on this is different from Glen's. When, referring to the side windows it says, "The only argument in favor is that they are allowed in some race series." This seems to me that there may be some bias against them. Actually there are several reasons why the windows should be in place. I think that where PCA is headed will be to prohibit side windows, require a safety net and require door hinge bolts that will prevent you from lifting the door off easily.
I for prefer to run with the windows on.
05-16-2008, 12:17 PM
#6
Just to be clear, I prefer windows in and would argue they are original to an FIA legal factory prepped car so obviously they must be ok to run in Our series...my assumption from Donna's comments was we are headed for window nets in the cars regardless, which is ok by me and I agree with...
05-31-2008, 04:24 PM
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guys, what we've found is that the doors fly off very easily in a crash, if they don't have the pin installed at the bottom. the pins are apparently often times left out by the mechanics since leaving them out results in easy on, easy off. At the Miller IMSA GT3 race a couple of weeks ago I believe they had three cars crash and doors fly off.
What we are going to start enforcing now is a requirement that the pins be installed. Not that different in concept then safety wiring certain things that can come lose, doubling back the shoulder harnesses one extra time through the slots, etc. Very simple to do and its for the driver's safety.
It would help a lot if cup cars with windows would have small blaze orange dots on those windows. the reason we ask for that is that the installation of those dots allows the stewards to tell the corner workers "the cars with the orange dots on the windows may run with windows up, all others must have windows down"
My bet is door nets and right side nets are going to be suggestions but not requirements this coming year but we'll see.
Bruce Boeder
What we are going to start enforcing now is a requirement that the pins be installed. Not that different in concept then safety wiring certain things that can come lose, doubling back the shoulder harnesses one extra time through the slots, etc. Very simple to do and its for the driver's safety.
It would help a lot if cup cars with windows would have small blaze orange dots on those windows. the reason we ask for that is that the installation of those dots allows the stewards to tell the corner workers "the cars with the orange dots on the windows may run with windows up, all others must have windows down"
My bet is door nets and right side nets are going to be suggestions but not requirements this coming year but we'll see.
Bruce Boeder
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05-31-2008, 05:17 PM
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Hello Bruce, I never removed my original door hinge pins, so the door coming off as you described is unlikely. I would agree that they should be in place.
Your suggestion as to identifying cars that are permitted to have side windows by means of a marking is well taken. My expectation is that our corner workers would be trained well enough to know a cup car from its street car counterpart, however should that be impractical, a marking could be helpful.
Your suggestions are constructive and have some detail based on recent experience, as opposed to the following quote in the recent PCA CR News article (that I referred to at the beginning of this discussion) "Great, so now we allow cars to run without window nets and the doors fall off? Anyway you can see where I'm heading with this one."
Robert
Your suggestion as to identifying cars that are permitted to have side windows by means of a marking is well taken. My expectation is that our corner workers would be trained well enough to know a cup car from its street car counterpart, however should that be impractical, a marking could be helpful.
Your suggestions are constructive and have some detail based on recent experience, as opposed to the following quote in the recent PCA CR News article (that I referred to at the beginning of this discussion) "Great, so now we allow cars to run without window nets and the doors fall off? Anyway you can see where I'm heading with this one."
Robert