VP Racing Fuels MS109/MS109E versus Sonoco 260 GT Plus?
03-05-2019, 04:36 PM
#1
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VP Racing Fuels MS109/MS109E versus Sonoco 260 GT Plus?
I've always run VP Racing Fuels fuel (sorry for the redundancy!) in my 2001 GT3 Cup. One of the gentlemen that supported me started me using VP Racing's MS109 and I could certainly "feel" a difference in the pull of the car under power versus the more readily available MS100. The MS109 was not cheap, but I converted to that fuel anyway. Now, I'm told (by a competitor to VP Racing Fuels) that the MS109 is inconsistent from barrel to barrel and am being solicited to change to Sonoco 260 GT Plus. I've looked at the spec sheets and both are pretty consistent.
My questions are:
My car is a 2001 GT3 Cup running GTC3. Engine was rebuilt by Gordon Friedman at Autometrics as a 2003 motor about 2 years ago (maybe 25 hours on the motor at this point). I'm about to purchase a drum of fuel (for COTA), and would appreciate input/suggestions/recommendations from the group here. Thanks in advance!!
Toby
My questions are:
- What experiences do people have with fuels?
- Better or worse fuels, and why?
- I have to believe Sonoco is a good racing fuel, so I would appreciate any experiences, good or bad, using their 260 GT Plus fuel.
- Any recent experiences with the VP Racing Fuels MS109 or MS109E?
My car is a 2001 GT3 Cup running GTC3. Engine was rebuilt by Gordon Friedman at Autometrics as a 2003 motor about 2 years ago (maybe 25 hours on the motor at this point). I'm about to purchase a drum of fuel (for COTA), and would appreciate input/suggestions/recommendations from the group here. Thanks in advance!!
Toby
03-05-2019, 04:55 PM
#2
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I am surprised a stock Cup motor that you can feel a power difference between the 2 fuels. I use VP100 from Lime Rock and no issues. Just hard to believe if they both have 100 octane you can feel a seat of your pants difference. From what I was always told 100 octane is more then enough and anything over did not boast HP on stock computer.
Very curious to hear from those that know
Very curious to hear from those that know
03-05-2019, 05:38 PM
#3
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Steve113,
That's exactly why I posted. I, too , was surprised. There was definitely a stronger "feel" to the motor when running MS109. That said, my "backside dyno" may have been unduly influenced by the emptier feeling of my wallet!
Toby
That's exactly why I posted. I, too , was surprised. There was definitely a stronger "feel" to the motor when running MS109. That said, my "backside dyno" may have been unduly influenced by the emptier feeling of my wallet!
Toby
03-05-2019, 11:04 PM
#5
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so i have a dumb question, if the fuel is too hot or is too high of a octane cant that damage the engine or reduce the amount of hours between engine overhalls
03-06-2019, 10:30 AM
#6
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This will be interesting to see where it leads.
Toby- "unduly influenced by the emptier feeling of my wallet" dont worry that why they say in racing "lighter is better"
Toby- "unduly influenced by the emptier feeling of my wallet" dont worry that why they say in racing "lighter is better"
03-06-2019, 11:43 AM
#7
Not surprised that someone pushing another brand would hit VP with an inconsistent claim. Consistency is one of the highest priorities of the brand. You should ask around to see if you find anyone using VP mention this concern.
As far as the octane goes, I believe Porsche specifies something around 97 RON for cups. The MS109 you are using is overkill if you have stock compression and a stock ECU. You would better served running MS100 or Performance Unleaded Reg. Both have an RON greater than 97 and the performance unleaded doesn’t contain ethanol which is advantageous if you don’t drain your fuel system after each use. It’s also cheaper than MS100.
Using higher octane on engines that don’t require it doesn’t cause any harm, it’s just a waste of money.
As far as the octane goes, I believe Porsche specifies something around 97 RON for cups. The MS109 you are using is overkill if you have stock compression and a stock ECU. You would better served running MS100 or Performance Unleaded Reg. Both have an RON greater than 97 and the performance unleaded doesn’t contain ethanol which is advantageous if you don’t drain your fuel system after each use. It’s also cheaper than MS100.
Using higher octane on engines that don’t require it doesn’t cause any harm, it’s just a waste of money.
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03-06-2019, 12:54 PM
#8
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^^THIS is the kind of data/opinion I am looking for. Thanks! And yes, I was very wary of claims by one vendor about another's products. I'm always suspicious when a salesman (regardless of product being sold) would rather talk about his/her competitor's products and their flaws/shortcomings over the virtues of their own product!
BTW, I've not seen consistency issues in my usage of VP Racing Fuels to date. The prices for VP Racing Fuels do seem to be higher than Sonoco, but outside of that comparison, the fuels look to be roughly the same based on their respective data sheets. And the ethanol issues, regardless of pump gas or race gas, just frustrate the daylights out of me! I *HATE* what this additive does to the internal rubber components in our fuel systems.
Thanks again for your insight!
Toby
BTW, I've not seen consistency issues in my usage of VP Racing Fuels to date. The prices for VP Racing Fuels do seem to be higher than Sonoco, but outside of that comparison, the fuels look to be roughly the same based on their respective data sheets. And the ethanol issues, regardless of pump gas or race gas, just frustrate the daylights out of me! I *HATE* what this additive does to the internal rubber components in our fuel systems.
Thanks again for your insight!
Toby
03-07-2019, 08:44 AM
#9
I have been doing some fuel research and found Porsche required 98 RON for 997 GT3 cup cars. I have been researching specifically for 997.1 Cup cars. Others may or may not be different.
03-07-2019, 09:43 AM
#10
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Yes, Porsche stipulates a "minimum 98 RON Super Plus unleaded" fuel for the 2001 GT3 Cup.
Toby
Toby
03-07-2019, 11:16 AM
#11
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I've seen inconsistent fuel in a different product from VP. It caused problems in tuning engines. Some of the VP fuels also seem to be more corrosive and damage rubber parts more. Again, not your specific products, but products from VP.
03-10-2019, 09:58 AM
#12
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Part of the butt dyno increase in the MS over VP is that MS is oxygenated fuel. We notice a slight increase then we run the IMSA 100 over VP100 at tracks when we go to practice. And as octane increases, fuel is harder to ignite. This is why higher octanes in boosted cars so less chance of a pre-detonation. NA cars use slightly higher octanes due to simple compression increases car to car (regular to premium to race fuel). Once you have achieved proper detonation any additional octane just throws money away and again makes it harder to fire..