ABS now in IMSA platinum masters, how about pca?
03-14-2018, 11:27 AM
#16
we just differ in opinion. i've owned many cup cars and Rs, and caymans with factory and caymans with after-market (teves or bosch ) abs. you could look up my track records and results. lets presume i understand the car, the handling, etc.
i would suggest to you that the GT3rs, all the GT4s, most of the spec series permit and most require ABS. and i doubt that in any spec series that permits abs, that a abs-permitted car would ever not have ABS, thats how much abs can help the car competitively and for all the other reasons (less risk of wrecking, flat spotting, etc.) the IMSA series itself for that Platinium masters class is now requiring it on the cups which is the primary reason i got it.
modern race abs is not anything like street abs, and can be setup at a multitude of levels. the bosch and teves both allow you to tweak and adjust the settings for dry or rain and then even levels within the dry. you can set it up (as i do) so its almost like not having ABS unless of course you. that intermediate driver/speed, when a driver is good in the car, not super fast yet, but getting faster, ...they are biting on chunks of time and improving which is great....but its also when a mistake comes out of nowhere. And when you're a real 10/10ths in the car, it can happen a lot quicker and sooner than you think. and if might happen to the person behind you or in front of you. I think IMSA probably wants to see cleaner racing and its probably worth 1/2 to 3/4 of a second a lap. i know thats a horrible generality to throw out there but im guessing 1/2 at limerock, maybe 3/4 to 1 at Watkins. at sebring withe bumps in the brake zone, maybe a whole lot more. my guess, a full brake marker you can bite off more.
your points about learning without it are super correct. there could be drivers that grow up never knowing heel toe, who arent any good at it, dont know the mastery and art of it. and dont need to. and other than the glory of it, in some cars, not sure they need to know it other than being a complete, well rounded driver. but if you only ever drive current modern cars, paddles is all you need to know to flick.
me, i love the idea of abs, and think if any race group could use it, its some of the pca races where a lot of wrecks happen with cars locking up.
i would suggest to you that the GT3rs, all the GT4s, most of the spec series permit and most require ABS. and i doubt that in any spec series that permits abs, that a abs-permitted car would ever not have ABS, thats how much abs can help the car competitively and for all the other reasons (less risk of wrecking, flat spotting, etc.) the IMSA series itself for that Platinium masters class is now requiring it on the cups which is the primary reason i got it.
modern race abs is not anything like street abs, and can be setup at a multitude of levels. the bosch and teves both allow you to tweak and adjust the settings for dry or rain and then even levels within the dry. you can set it up (as i do) so its almost like not having ABS unless of course you. that intermediate driver/speed, when a driver is good in the car, not super fast yet, but getting faster, ...they are biting on chunks of time and improving which is great....but its also when a mistake comes out of nowhere. And when you're a real 10/10ths in the car, it can happen a lot quicker and sooner than you think. and if might happen to the person behind you or in front of you. I think IMSA probably wants to see cleaner racing and its probably worth 1/2 to 3/4 of a second a lap. i know thats a horrible generality to throw out there but im guessing 1/2 at limerock, maybe 3/4 to 1 at Watkins. at sebring withe bumps in the brake zone, maybe a whole lot more. my guess, a full brake marker you can bite off more.
your points about learning without it are super correct. there could be drivers that grow up never knowing heel toe, who arent any good at it, dont know the mastery and art of it. and dont need to. and other than the glory of it, in some cars, not sure they need to know it other than being a complete, well rounded driver. but if you only ever drive current modern cars, paddles is all you need to know to flick.
me, i love the idea of abs, and think if any race group could use it, its some of the pca races where a lot of wrecks happen with cars locking up.
03-14-2018, 01:22 PM
#18
Race Car
Originally Posted by spg993tt
And when you're a real 10/10ths in the car, it can happen a lot quicker and sooner than you think. and if might happen to the person behind you or in front of you. I think IMSA probably wants to see cleaner racing and its probably worth 1/2 to 3/4 of a second a lap. i know thats a horrible generality to throw out there but im guessing 1/2 at limerock, maybe 3/4 to 1 at Watkins. at sebring withe bumps in the brake zone, maybe a whole lot more. my guess, a full brake marker you can bite off more.
.
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If I run gtb1 in 2019, i will get a kit.
2018 budget on mods is way busted already
03-15-2018, 12:24 PM
#19
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
the bosch has a wet/dry switch and a settings dial. nice software for bleeding the system, etc.
the teves seemed more basic, but performance wise was as good. and like 40% cheaper.
03-27-2018, 10:08 AM
#20
Nordschleife Master
installed the abs today. started at like 10am, by 2 it was all in hardware wise, another 30minutes to bleed it mechanically (kit had new masters etc). the kit was as simple plug and play , all brackets, hoses, tubes, washers, bolts, and masters. i then loaded the cosworth new dash config which shows the abs state (setting switch position), on the dash, the ecu software loaded, and then the electronic abs bleeding wizard. by 3pm done a to z. looks nice, and is a great kit. expensive but great.
03-27-2018, 05:53 PM
#23
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ABS in club racing would add a significate expense to the car that perhaps not all owners are willing to absorb. Therefore it is left out to be fair to those who do not want the expense.
I expect the 992 Cup to finally come standard with it.
I expect the 992 Cup to finally come standard with it.
03-28-2018, 09:41 AM
#24
Nordschleife Master
While I do agree it is a lot of money, there is very little about a 991.2 that is cheap at the moment. As a % of acquisition and maintenance cost, its not bad. Actually the cost of just a few sets of slicks.
03-28-2018, 11:33 AM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
and lastly, if PCA wanted to 'save money' for drivers, they'd push harder to get better prices from Pirelli for the slicks. I'm going to run gta3 with the 2017 cup/ABS etc. i purchased Michelins for about 550/set cheaper than the Pirelli gtc spec tire. after maybe 7 races, the savings in tire expense will have paid for the abs more or less.
i would LOVE to see expenses come down. but ive raced cups in pca for many years and anything that could be done to minimize the crashes so drivers can enjoy more green lap running , safely, would be a great thing to do.
i agree...abs will be stock soon enough.
$14k is absurd for abs which is a glorified bosch cup with different programming, a harness, a masters or two, and other stuff.
03-28-2018, 04:09 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
I ran this years IMSA event at Sebring one of the three cars on our team had ABS and two didn't. I didn't see any problems racing with and without. These guys are good!
03-28-2018, 07:14 PM
#27
Race Car
Originally Posted by tkerrmd
I ran this years IMSA event at Sebring one of the three cars on our team had ABS and two didn't. I didn't see any problems racing with and without. These guys are good!
03-28-2018, 09:08 PM
#28
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i don't dispute the added expense, but id mirror viper's thoughts that cup racing is expensive to begin with. i think imsa is probably a little sick and tired of seeing televised "pro" imsa gt3 cup get muddied up with relatively inexperienced imsa cup drivers locking up taking out others. it looks ridiculous on tv, it wrecks cars, no one enjoys watching a field parade around under yellow as they clean up mess after mess (do watch the WC race from a few weeks ago). And so should PCA. too many races under yellow or red flagged due to silly wrecks, many caused by braking.
and lastly, if PCA wanted to 'save money' for drivers, they'd push harder to get better prices from Pirelli for the slicks. I'm going to run gta3 with the 2017 cup/ABS etc. i purchased Michelins for about 550/set cheaper than the Pirelli gtc spec tire. after maybe 7 races, the savings in tire expense will have paid for the abs more or less.
i would LOVE to see expenses come down. but ive raced cups in pca for many years and anything that could be done to minimize the crashes so drivers can enjoy more green lap running , safely, would be a great thing to do.
i agree...abs will be stock soon enough.
$14k is absurd for abs which is a glorified bosch cup with different programming, a harness, a masters or two, and other stuff.
and lastly, if PCA wanted to 'save money' for drivers, they'd push harder to get better prices from Pirelli for the slicks. I'm going to run gta3 with the 2017 cup/ABS etc. i purchased Michelins for about 550/set cheaper than the Pirelli gtc spec tire. after maybe 7 races, the savings in tire expense will have paid for the abs more or less.
i would LOVE to see expenses come down. but ive raced cups in pca for many years and anything that could be done to minimize the crashes so drivers can enjoy more green lap running , safely, would be a great thing to do.
i agree...abs will be stock soon enough.
$14k is absurd for abs which is a glorified bosch cup with different programming, a harness, a masters or two, and other stuff.
03-29-2018, 09:58 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
