2016 Base Cayman CPO purchase - Is it the right car for my needs?
06-19-2017, 10:29 PM
#16
Sounds like you went in with an open mind and made an honest decision.
Also sounds like this would have been your daily? If that's the case, I can't blame you. My Cayman is a toy. It gets driven when I have nowhere I have to go, and nothing I need to take. I have 4 wheel drive vehicles with roof racks, cargo areas and trailer hitches for those needs...
Also sounds like this would have been your daily? If that's the case, I can't blame you. My Cayman is a toy. It gets driven when I have nowhere I have to go, and nothing I need to take. I have 4 wheel drive vehicles with roof racks, cargo areas and trailer hitches for those needs...
06-19-2017, 11:49 PM
#17
Jack -
Actually the VW Sportwagen would remain the DD. The issue is the garage space - two car garage and I'd have 3 cars and a motorcycle. Clearly the VW could remain outside, and that was the plan, but it would involve jockeying cars around fairly often since I'm retired and would likely take the Porsche out when everyone else is working (I really like retirement). We have restricted parking where I live - all cars have to be parked in the garage or driveway overnight.
The issue was also complicated by my mental angst over "resource efficiency". The Cayman would compete, at least to a degree, with the Moto Guzzi for fun time, especially since my wife wasn't "wowed" by the car. I ride the bike solo, her arthritis really leaves her with little desire to ride anymore. Can't blame her a bit. That was the reason for a sports car - we could enjoy a fun ride together. I was disappointed that she found the Porsche a bit more challenging to enter/exit than expected. She could do it, but I realized that she wasn't really enjoying it.
Her car is a BMW 2011 335d we bought new and has less than 55K miles on it. It is a Steptronic transmission and keeps the diesel engine at peak torque (430 lb/ft) from 1550-4000 RPM - essentially the entire RPM range. She puts it in "sport mode" and it keeps the revs high, tapping into 266 HP. That doesn't sound like much, but the shove from the torque is very visible and enjoyable - especially so in a larger city environment where we live and much of the driving is from traffic light to traffic light.
The Cayman base engine was really "torque challenged" unless the revs were halfway or more across the RPM range. The lack of low end torque, need to "flog it" to get the torque to kick in, and the relatively high gearing of the transmission gave us a riding combination best suited for long sweepers and tight turning roads - few of which exist within 30 miles of our home. That, and the much higher seating position of the BMW 335, made it clear that for her the BMW would always be her preferred ride - and again, I'd have made the same decision.
So, I was left with this question: "Do I buy a wonderful car, that may or may not get the use I expect, at a cost that exceeds the value of all the remaining vehicles I own?" The 2017 Sportwagen, 2011 BWM and 2014 Moto Guzzi combined have a current market value less than the cost of the 2016 Cayman. That seems disproportionate to the expected use. It made me wonder if I should consider upgrading my wife's car, and the reply was: "If you're not happy with your car, get whatever you want, but leave my car alone - I like it". That seemed to clarify things. I'll add that since 1999 we've owned 7 BMW cars, and I've owned 2 BMW motorcycles. She also doesn't like the newer BMWs - hates the auto "on/off" when stopping, hates the electric steering, and hates the 4 cylinder engine with 8 speed transmission "it's always shifting".
After giving it a honest evaluation, the best solution was to do nothing right now. I was getting a great deal, and thought that the downside of owning the last 6 cylinder manual transmission car wasn't very much, but if the car doesn't make you want to drive it, then it isn't the right car - and that was the bottom line.
Again, this isn't a bash Porsche post - it's just a realization that my toolbox seems to already have the tools I need - adding another one that will be a specialty tool seemed extravagant. And, truth be told, I don't mind funding three grandchildren 529 plans a bit more aggressively as a bonus for being willing to consider alternative uses for the money. I can afford the Porsche, but I've also aged to the point where I've seen lots of things happen that I never expected - I like having extra reserves, and follow my old Boy Scout motto - be prepared.
Thanks again to all for the help, patience and wisdom - all helped me as I tried to figure out the best way forward. I think I made the right decision, but I know I'm going to second guess myself, especially when I realize I won't be able to find another car in that condition and mileage for anywhere near the price I was offered. I may be back in another post soon - I have the title: "The One That Got Away - Non-Buyer's Remorse".
Be well everyone.
Actually the VW Sportwagen would remain the DD. The issue is the garage space - two car garage and I'd have 3 cars and a motorcycle. Clearly the VW could remain outside, and that was the plan, but it would involve jockeying cars around fairly often since I'm retired and would likely take the Porsche out when everyone else is working (I really like retirement). We have restricted parking where I live - all cars have to be parked in the garage or driveway overnight.
The issue was also complicated by my mental angst over "resource efficiency". The Cayman would compete, at least to a degree, with the Moto Guzzi for fun time, especially since my wife wasn't "wowed" by the car. I ride the bike solo, her arthritis really leaves her with little desire to ride anymore. Can't blame her a bit. That was the reason for a sports car - we could enjoy a fun ride together. I was disappointed that she found the Porsche a bit more challenging to enter/exit than expected. She could do it, but I realized that she wasn't really enjoying it.
Her car is a BMW 2011 335d we bought new and has less than 55K miles on it. It is a Steptronic transmission and keeps the diesel engine at peak torque (430 lb/ft) from 1550-4000 RPM - essentially the entire RPM range. She puts it in "sport mode" and it keeps the revs high, tapping into 266 HP. That doesn't sound like much, but the shove from the torque is very visible and enjoyable - especially so in a larger city environment where we live and much of the driving is from traffic light to traffic light.
The Cayman base engine was really "torque challenged" unless the revs were halfway or more across the RPM range. The lack of low end torque, need to "flog it" to get the torque to kick in, and the relatively high gearing of the transmission gave us a riding combination best suited for long sweepers and tight turning roads - few of which exist within 30 miles of our home. That, and the much higher seating position of the BMW 335, made it clear that for her the BMW would always be her preferred ride - and again, I'd have made the same decision.
So, I was left with this question: "Do I buy a wonderful car, that may or may not get the use I expect, at a cost that exceeds the value of all the remaining vehicles I own?" The 2017 Sportwagen, 2011 BWM and 2014 Moto Guzzi combined have a current market value less than the cost of the 2016 Cayman. That seems disproportionate to the expected use. It made me wonder if I should consider upgrading my wife's car, and the reply was: "If you're not happy with your car, get whatever you want, but leave my car alone - I like it". That seemed to clarify things. I'll add that since 1999 we've owned 7 BMW cars, and I've owned 2 BMW motorcycles. She also doesn't like the newer BMWs - hates the auto "on/off" when stopping, hates the electric steering, and hates the 4 cylinder engine with 8 speed transmission "it's always shifting".
After giving it a honest evaluation, the best solution was to do nothing right now. I was getting a great deal, and thought that the downside of owning the last 6 cylinder manual transmission car wasn't very much, but if the car doesn't make you want to drive it, then it isn't the right car - and that was the bottom line.
Again, this isn't a bash Porsche post - it's just a realization that my toolbox seems to already have the tools I need - adding another one that will be a specialty tool seemed extravagant. And, truth be told, I don't mind funding three grandchildren 529 plans a bit more aggressively as a bonus for being willing to consider alternative uses for the money. I can afford the Porsche, but I've also aged to the point where I've seen lots of things happen that I never expected - I like having extra reserves, and follow my old Boy Scout motto - be prepared.
Thanks again to all for the help, patience and wisdom - all helped me as I tried to figure out the best way forward. I think I made the right decision, but I know I'm going to second guess myself, especially when I realize I won't be able to find another car in that condition and mileage for anywhere near the price I was offered. I may be back in another post soon - I have the title: "The One That Got Away - Non-Buyer's Remorse".
Be well everyone.
06-20-2017, 12:48 AM
#18
Late Porkchops
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Everybody's different.
From the minute I test drove the Cayman on the road, and rather extensively on the track too, I knew what I wanted. Well . . if a 991 911R was in the picture that would be different.
For all the reasons you mentioned, I love my Cayman - but in the reverse direction.
When I go somewhere in it I want it to be under me. Around me. With one or two people in it.
After having a garage full of motorcycles (including BMW motorcycles and cars and X5) for years this Cayman is perfect for my wife and I to go on a Texas weekend run. If we are taking kids then I will use her MB SUV ( probably going to be a Cayenne next time around ) or my truck. Otherwise we want to be out on a dinner run, or a Porsche club gig, or just a cruise in the Cayman.
When I went to the Porsche dealer I had a great new powerful and fast Boss Mustang. It would scald the tires anywhere and was fun. But it wasn't what the Cayman is and I (we) never drove it.
I went to the Porsche dealer and drove the new 991, a 991 S, and a Cayman S. While it was somewhat of a decision with the 991S, the truth is, and I have said it here several times, is that if I didn't know the 991 said 911 on it, then I would pick the Cayman every time from the seat and wheel. So it was an easy choice knowing the Cayman was going to soon be a 4 cylinder car.
I love my Cayman, and while there are lots of good Porsches and other cars too, I am hard pressed to think of many others I truly would want in place of the Cayman. In addition to - well yeah, I could make a list. But to me its that good. I pass the BMW dealer everyday and never give it a look or a second thought. But again thats me - any my garage now looks a lot like hmmmm . . Porsche. So I better not be changing or there is going to be some bigger work to do.
I thought about the price of the 2016 Cayman before I decided on it. Versus the 991S it was an easy choice. The price of my 1986 951 was a lot bigger in October of 1985 at over 36,000$. A new F250 is bumping into Cayman price territory too. But with a year and half left to pay the Cayman off completely I can truthfully say that I have never thought about the value/price of it another time. It's that good of a car. For me. Oh yeah, Mrs TR likes it too.
From the minute I test drove the Cayman on the road, and rather extensively on the track too, I knew what I wanted. Well . . if a 991 911R was in the picture that would be different.
For all the reasons you mentioned, I love my Cayman - but in the reverse direction.
When I go somewhere in it I want it to be under me. Around me. With one or two people in it.
After having a garage full of motorcycles (including BMW motorcycles and cars and X5) for years this Cayman is perfect for my wife and I to go on a Texas weekend run. If we are taking kids then I will use her MB SUV ( probably going to be a Cayenne next time around ) or my truck. Otherwise we want to be out on a dinner run, or a Porsche club gig, or just a cruise in the Cayman.
When I went to the Porsche dealer I had a great new powerful and fast Boss Mustang. It would scald the tires anywhere and was fun. But it wasn't what the Cayman is and I (we) never drove it.
I went to the Porsche dealer and drove the new 991, a 991 S, and a Cayman S. While it was somewhat of a decision with the 991S, the truth is, and I have said it here several times, is that if I didn't know the 991 said 911 on it, then I would pick the Cayman every time from the seat and wheel. So it was an easy choice knowing the Cayman was going to soon be a 4 cylinder car.
I love my Cayman, and while there are lots of good Porsches and other cars too, I am hard pressed to think of many others I truly would want in place of the Cayman. In addition to - well yeah, I could make a list. But to me its that good. I pass the BMW dealer everyday and never give it a look or a second thought. But again thats me - any my garage now looks a lot like hmmmm . . Porsche. So I better not be changing or there is going to be some bigger work to do.
I thought about the price of the 2016 Cayman before I decided on it. Versus the 991S it was an easy choice. The price of my 1986 951 was a lot bigger in October of 1985 at over 36,000$. A new F250 is bumping into Cayman price territory too. But with a year and half left to pay the Cayman off completely I can truthfully say that I have never thought about the value/price of it another time. It's that good of a car. For me. Oh yeah, Mrs TR likes it too.
06-20-2017, 09:53 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
If the Cayman didn't "speak" to you, then it wasn't for you. One day you'll come across a car, your brain will say, "Look, dude! There it is!" and you'll buy it and enjoy it.
06-25-2017, 07:01 PM
#20
well, here's a little "after the fact" input. I'm also a senior (mid 70's) with a long resume of sports cars, including a few "high end" cars. And I had decided the Cayman was to be my end of the line sports car, (although I told my wife the last 3 were the "last one" 
)
An S would have been my preference, but not a requirement. Obviously, If you lust for a Porsche, performance probably is a factor, but max performance is no longer a deal-breaker. I decided I was only interested in 6MT, 987.2 cars. I've looked at about a half-dozen in the past year, and very recently bought a well optioned, pristine 2011 base, 45K miles, all records and services on time and up-to-date.
My past favorite toy was my '91 MR2 turbo. The more accustomed I become to my Cayman, the more I realize how similar it feels to the MR2. (I know, the purists here will probably ban me.)
And I feel sure I told my wife the truth this time...this will be the last toy. Very pleased with my choice. (And I sold my last bike several years ago)
)An S would have been my preference, but not a requirement. Obviously, If you lust for a Porsche, performance probably is a factor, but max performance is no longer a deal-breaker. I decided I was only interested in 6MT, 987.2 cars. I've looked at about a half-dozen in the past year, and very recently bought a well optioned, pristine 2011 base, 45K miles, all records and services on time and up-to-date.
My past favorite toy was my '91 MR2 turbo. The more accustomed I become to my Cayman, the more I realize how similar it feels to the MR2. (I know, the purists here will probably ban me.)
And I feel sure I told my wife the truth this time...this will be the last toy. Very pleased with my choice. (And I sold my last bike several years ago)
06-25-2017, 07:07 PM
#21
06-26-2017, 11:10 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Yes - I'm in after the fact on this too but just want to add in a few comments for anyone in the future looking at the base Cayman. It's an exceptional car. I too have dropped down in power over the years but absolutely enjoy the 2.7 short-stroke small cylinder engine. Yes - the torque kicks in at around 4500 RPM so I DO have / get to drive it harder to eek out the power. It's a great daily driver and the PDK in manual mode, once it's warmed up, is absolutely astonishing.
I think the OP found a great car but with the grand kids and all, and maybe not the right colour combination etc..., when it came right down to it, wasn't REALLY wanting a sports car. Heck - he could pick up a 997 variant for the same price and have 2 seats in the back for the grand kids.
There was no mention of the age of the grand kids BUT what I suspect is when they get older one or two of them will be a junior petrol head and THEN the interest in picking up a Porsche may be re-kindled.
I think the OP found a great car but with the grand kids and all, and maybe not the right colour combination etc..., when it came right down to it, wasn't REALLY wanting a sports car. Heck - he could pick up a 997 variant for the same price and have 2 seats in the back for the grand kids.
There was no mention of the age of the grand kids BUT what I suspect is when they get older one or two of them will be a junior petrol head and THEN the interest in picking up a Porsche may be re-kindled.
06-27-2017, 12:44 AM
#23
What follows is a copy of my post on the General Porsche discussion board earlier this evening. I'm placing it here because much of the help I got in my search for a Porsche came from your comments in this section. I'm posting it to answer several PMs I've had about "What did you decide". I realize this post may be viewed as "odd", and I frankly admit that I feel somewhat the same. But, at the same time, I wanted to try to describe why I reached the decision I did, and at the same time, I wanted to thank everyone for their time, suggestions, and honest comments about what things I should consider. All of them are welcome, and I thank each of you for taking the time to help me make some decisions.
**
Greetings to All -
I've been "radio silent" as I consider what I want with my car purchase decision. The bottom line is not what I expected - I'm going to do nothing right now. I've driven the 2016 & 2017 Caymans, both base and S versions. They are all fine machines, and that's part of the confusion.
I have an inherent bias against the 4 cylinder engines - this is bias, not fact, and so it's hard to be objective. I was raised on NA engines, and find turbo/supercharging not "real" engines. That's my bias, and I admit it. The problem is that when I drove the newer 4 cylinder engines I found that they weren't so bad. Yes, the exhaust note was different, but in reality, I learned that sometimes being louder isn't better. This may not apply to everyone, but as you know I'm a senior - and as much as I'm surprised to write this, I rather enjoyed the different exhaust note of the 4 cylinder engines. It's not a F1 sound, and lots of times it sounds pretty strange, but it isn't a reason to dismiss the entire car.
I'm also unsure what these newer engines will mean for future valuation. Do the older 6 cylinders hold value better as people prefer their more comforting exhaust sounds, or in a year or so will the added performance of the newer engines make believers out of us "older folk". I don't know, so for now the main reason for buying the 2016 Cayman was to have "the last of the breed". While that's still true, I'm not sure if that's enough of a reason to buy the 2016 car.
I have another inherent bias - against American cars. I don't think I have to explain this bias very much - it's been with me for decades and I'm sure I'm not alone with it. So, another completely unexpected result of my testing was my drive in a friend's Shelby GT350. I don't have the skill to get the most out of this car, but he does. To say I was surprised is an understatement. The car is in many ways the polar opposite of the Porsche cars. The Shelby is relatively heavy, revs to a very healthy 8250 RPMS, and has sight lines that are best described as "interesting". It was a completely different feel than any of the Porsches. His friend has a Grand Sport Corvette that I drove "in anger" on a closed corse. It also surprised me - another different car, with some similarities to the Porsche, but a very different feel as well.
What this led me to consider is the difference in "American Iron" design. Both the Corvette and Shelby had low end torque to a greater degree than the Caymans (naturally so given their displacement and intended mission), and truth be told the "finesse" feeling of the Porsche, which is very evident compared to the American cars, wasn't as much fun in everyday driving compared to the higher torque of the other cars. Don't misunderstand my comment - I live in a city with a population of 500,000. In that setting there are lots of 25-30 MPH crowded streets, lots of red lights, lots of law enforcement and generally lots of other things that prevent, or at least severely limit, the type of open road and sweeping turn driving that makes a sports car truly fun and engaging. In that environment straight line speed, even if it's from stoplight to stoplight on occasion, can be entertaining. And when that burst is powered by tons of torque, it's actually more fun than I expected. I haven't driven a high HP high torque American engine car in decades. And when I did they had far less low end torque and typically terrible handling. That's not my experience with the current crop of American cars. Again, I'm not saying that we should all buy American cars, but I am saying that if I look at what they offer I can understand why many people like them. Frankly, I did too.
That's probably what attracted me to the 718 Cayman - the greater torque compared to the 2016 Cayman is very noticeable, especially in base model trim. To finalize my confusion, my friend introduced me to the Ford dealer (he has a Shelby as well) and he told me that with the new 2018 Mustang about to hit showrooms, there are amazing deals on outgoing 2017 Mustang GTs. He offered to sell me a Mustang GT (base model, not the Premium) with 6 speed manual transmission, 435 HP, 400 TQ, lots of standard equipment - bluetooth, all kinds of "modes", and lots more, for $30,000 brand new "out the door price". That includes a $1300 gas guzzler tax. Think about that for a moment - $30K including taxes, fees, shipping, registration, etc. and including a 3 year 36K bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year 60K mile powertrain warranty.
That kind of caught my attention. Yes, few people cross shop Mustangs and Caymans - I get it, but I also drove the base Mustang and like the other cars it has a bucket of TQ at low RPMs, and revs pretty aggressively. Being heavier (3700 pounds) it's more of a GT than true sports car, but it is also far more comfortable on public roads, and despite not handling like the Cayman it's actually more usable than I expected it to be.
So, with all of that confusion, regardless of what I decide, I realize that I'm not in a position to make a definitive commitment. And for that reason, I decided to wait until I do have a better idea of what I want. My heart is on the Porsche, likely a Cayman based on price, but it's pretty hard to ignore the value of the American cars, especially as the new models are coming out. I also have to really determine how much "pure driving" I'll actually do. The open road is a great goal, but the reality is that open roads aren't very common where I live, and may not be where you live either. In that environment, is there a better "tool" for everyday driving than the cars I'm considering.
The Shelby is still selling at sticker price - about $60K, that's for a 529 HP car with a 8250 redline and great track tools built in (magnetic shocks, etc.). The Grand Sport was about the same price, with track package and even higher HP/TQ. The Mustang GT is HALF the price of either, still gives some LOL moments when floored, and costs almost nothing to run (with the exception of 15 MPG gas in town). The point isn't that anyone should buy an American car because of the price, but my bias against American cars definitely took a different turn after having put lots of time in the Shelby, Corvette and Mustang GT. By the way, the three 718 Cayman S cars I saw, equipped with lots of toys (many of which aren't needed/necessary) topped $85,000 - $90,000 at the dealership I visited. That surprised me quite a bit. $85K versus $30K for a Mustang. Yeah, I know - apples and oranges, and maybe even thoughts of outrage at making the comparison. But seriously, at least for me, is the Cayman S worth THREE Mustang GTs? That's a lot harder to answer from a purely objective perspective after hours behind the wheel of each car.
Different cars, different missions, different perspectives and "baggage", but my snobbery did indeed have a swift kick applied to it in just the right places. A 435 HP/400 TQ brand new car for $30,000 out the door. Really?, REALLY!, Really?! - that's just how I felt, and it was totally unexpected.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, suggestions and patience. I'm as surprised as you are about this post - I seriously never thought I'd be writing anything like this.
**
Greetings to All -
I've been "radio silent" as I consider what I want with my car purchase decision. The bottom line is not what I expected - I'm going to do nothing right now. I've driven the 2016 & 2017 Caymans, both base and S versions. They are all fine machines, and that's part of the confusion.
I have an inherent bias against the 4 cylinder engines - this is bias, not fact, and so it's hard to be objective. I was raised on NA engines, and find turbo/supercharging not "real" engines. That's my bias, and I admit it. The problem is that when I drove the newer 4 cylinder engines I found that they weren't so bad. Yes, the exhaust note was different, but in reality, I learned that sometimes being louder isn't better. This may not apply to everyone, but as you know I'm a senior - and as much as I'm surprised to write this, I rather enjoyed the different exhaust note of the 4 cylinder engines. It's not a F1 sound, and lots of times it sounds pretty strange, but it isn't a reason to dismiss the entire car.
I'm also unsure what these newer engines will mean for future valuation. Do the older 6 cylinders hold value better as people prefer their more comforting exhaust sounds, or in a year or so will the added performance of the newer engines make believers out of us "older folk". I don't know, so for now the main reason for buying the 2016 Cayman was to have "the last of the breed". While that's still true, I'm not sure if that's enough of a reason to buy the 2016 car.
I have another inherent bias - against American cars. I don't think I have to explain this bias very much - it's been with me for decades and I'm sure I'm not alone with it. So, another completely unexpected result of my testing was my drive in a friend's Shelby GT350. I don't have the skill to get the most out of this car, but he does. To say I was surprised is an understatement. The car is in many ways the polar opposite of the Porsche cars. The Shelby is relatively heavy, revs to a very healthy 8250 RPMS, and has sight lines that are best described as "interesting". It was a completely different feel than any of the Porsches. His friend has a Grand Sport Corvette that I drove "in anger" on a closed corse. It also surprised me - another different car, with some similarities to the Porsche, but a very different feel as well.
What this led me to consider is the difference in "American Iron" design. Both the Corvette and Shelby had low end torque to a greater degree than the Caymans (naturally so given their displacement and intended mission), and truth be told the "finesse" feeling of the Porsche, which is very evident compared to the American cars, wasn't as much fun in everyday driving compared to the higher torque of the other cars. Don't misunderstand my comment - I live in a city with a population of 500,000. In that setting there are lots of 25-30 MPH crowded streets, lots of red lights, lots of law enforcement and generally lots of other things that prevent, or at least severely limit, the type of open road and sweeping turn driving that makes a sports car truly fun and engaging. In that environment straight line speed, even if it's from stoplight to stoplight on occasion, can be entertaining. And when that burst is powered by tons of torque, it's actually more fun than I expected. I haven't driven a high HP high torque American engine car in decades. And when I did they had far less low end torque and typically terrible handling. That's not my experience with the current crop of American cars. Again, I'm not saying that we should all buy American cars, but I am saying that if I look at what they offer I can understand why many people like them. Frankly, I did too.
That's probably what attracted me to the 718 Cayman - the greater torque compared to the 2016 Cayman is very noticeable, especially in base model trim. To finalize my confusion, my friend introduced me to the Ford dealer (he has a Shelby as well) and he told me that with the new 2018 Mustang about to hit showrooms, there are amazing deals on outgoing 2017 Mustang GTs. He offered to sell me a Mustang GT (base model, not the Premium) with 6 speed manual transmission, 435 HP, 400 TQ, lots of standard equipment - bluetooth, all kinds of "modes", and lots more, for $30,000 brand new "out the door price". That includes a $1300 gas guzzler tax. Think about that for a moment - $30K including taxes, fees, shipping, registration, etc. and including a 3 year 36K bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year 60K mile powertrain warranty.
That kind of caught my attention. Yes, few people cross shop Mustangs and Caymans - I get it, but I also drove the base Mustang and like the other cars it has a bucket of TQ at low RPMs, and revs pretty aggressively. Being heavier (3700 pounds) it's more of a GT than true sports car, but it is also far more comfortable on public roads, and despite not handling like the Cayman it's actually more usable than I expected it to be.
So, with all of that confusion, regardless of what I decide, I realize that I'm not in a position to make a definitive commitment. And for that reason, I decided to wait until I do have a better idea of what I want. My heart is on the Porsche, likely a Cayman based on price, but it's pretty hard to ignore the value of the American cars, especially as the new models are coming out. I also have to really determine how much "pure driving" I'll actually do. The open road is a great goal, but the reality is that open roads aren't very common where I live, and may not be where you live either. In that environment, is there a better "tool" for everyday driving than the cars I'm considering.
The Shelby is still selling at sticker price - about $60K, that's for a 529 HP car with a 8250 redline and great track tools built in (magnetic shocks, etc.). The Grand Sport was about the same price, with track package and even higher HP/TQ. The Mustang GT is HALF the price of either, still gives some LOL moments when floored, and costs almost nothing to run (with the exception of 15 MPG gas in town). The point isn't that anyone should buy an American car because of the price, but my bias against American cars definitely took a different turn after having put lots of time in the Shelby, Corvette and Mustang GT. By the way, the three 718 Cayman S cars I saw, equipped with lots of toys (many of which aren't needed/necessary) topped $85,000 - $90,000 at the dealership I visited. That surprised me quite a bit. $85K versus $30K for a Mustang. Yeah, I know - apples and oranges, and maybe even thoughts of outrage at making the comparison. But seriously, at least for me, is the Cayman S worth THREE Mustang GTs? That's a lot harder to answer from a purely objective perspective after hours behind the wheel of each car.
Different cars, different missions, different perspectives and "baggage", but my snobbery did indeed have a swift kick applied to it in just the right places. A 435 HP/400 TQ brand new car for $30,000 out the door. Really?, REALLY!, Really?! - that's just how I felt, and it was totally unexpected.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, suggestions and patience. I'm as surprised as you are about this post - I seriously never thought I'd be writing anything like this.
06-28-2017, 12:34 AM
#24
Late Porkchops
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It is all about choices. I made the best one for me and Im sure you did too.
But Ill elaborate some of the choices I made to get to the Cayman.
I went to the 981 Cayman launch ( at another dealer here in Houston) in 2013 with a check in my truck to get one. It was such a metrosexual event driven by the particular dealers personnel, that I left early and went home with my check in my pocket.
A few weeks later I went by Ford looking for a new truck. And there set a Got To Have It Green Ford Mustang Boss 302. Me and the dealer boss and the owner are all tight, so in literally 15 minutes the Boss was bought and delivered a couple of days later. A nice Mustang with somewhat of the feel of my 1970 Mach 1 351 but better in every way of course.
Sometimes you have to go around to get around. I tried some other cars, and still came right back to Porsche and to the Cayman in particular.
Later a round at the track with almost all the Porsche cars reminded me of what I wanted and why. If I could have ordered it, that is had I really been paying attention earlier and known the 4 cylinder 718 was on tap, I would have likely gone a GTS with a few changes. But as it was I was caught flat footed and read there was going to be no more 6 cylinder Caymans. So I had to get busy and do some chit. And I did. The Cayman S suits me perfectly - just like I knew it was going to.
In my Cayman versus Boss ownership experience, I liked the Boss and Ford, but it wasn't close to the Porsche.
The Boss was bigger. It had tons of get up and go but its no faster even with the red key. The Boss costs less new by a long shot. You can buy them used for even less. We probably have every kind of Mustang there is right here in town. I wouldn't be super surprised if Bullitt rolled by. Heck there are fewer Caymans than 911s, so I like that.
The Boss was also heavier. It was also louder when you got on the loud pedal. Its a Mustang. The interior was ok but not anything except that. It had a trunk but no spare tire either. And I wasn't going to put Mrs TR in the Boss and take a trip down to San Antonio, or Dallas, or New Orleans, or further. All of which are just a fun little run in the Porsche. The Boss wasn't nearly as refined and multi faceted car as the Cayman in any regard. I figure if I wanted a big motor hot rod, I would strap a big inch built motor into an older Pontiac, or maybe a Dodge and go with that.
Is the Cayman a value car? I can say it easily is for me. But each owner has to make that equals sign total for himself. Yes it cost twice and more of my Boss. And another third over a Vette. And about a third less than a 991S. And I still have over a year to completely finish paying it off and that was putting in all the Boss sale money, and a trip to the bank for more of my own too as I didnt want any big payments on it. If I had a $1500 a month payment on it then I might feel differently. But I don't even think about the other cars anymore though. So in that context it was worth every nickel to me. I can't guess at whats it value will be later - and while it would be great if it happens to be good, I don't expect it to be anyting more than just what it is. For that matter my CS may be a long time finding a new owner - unless that 911R comes along. It is unlikely that any of these cars are going to appreciate anyway - or said another way, is that they will depreciate. Most all of these models are made in too big of numbers to become collectable cars anytime soon.
You know what else made it "value" in my mind? I looked at taking Mrs TR back to Europe again, but this time on one of the Porsche driving tours. It was going to be $25,000 at least. I said for my Boss, and 25K, I can get close to the Cayman I really want and we will take some trips here in the US. We can drive it, or I can put it in the trailer and haul it and drive it. Of course if I buy another new Porsche I am picking it up at the factory, but that is something for another time.
And the biggie . . none of the Mustangs, or the regular Vettes, or a Viper, have even close to the "feel" of the Cayman for me. I have had mine on curvy road runs here in Texas, yeah we have a few of those, and while it was spirited driving none of it was at the even close to the limit, and Cayman was in its element. It was so willing and so easy to drive too. Is it a drag car? No. Is it a muscle car? No. But it is a heck of a sports car and can easily do touring car duty. As for speed - you can easily spend a few quaint days in jail with just a little effort. It has speed to burn. And as I said before, that crest on the car drives Corvette drivers into fits. And they then spend a few quaint days in jail and in court.
Yes it gives up a little "prestige" to the 991 type 911. Oh well that happens sometimes. In my eye, the 981 Cayman looks better. It gives up some Hp too to the 911 or a GT3 and more to a Vette. But as the great Walter Rohrl said " Yes it is down just a little on power, but it turns in like no 911 can."
Something else is that the Cayman is just flat fun to drive. It puts a smile on my face every time I turn that Porsche shaped key. Mine is a year old with only 3000 miles and it will probably see more maybe 5000 miles this year. But every one of those was good. BTW I had 700 miles on the Boss when it moved out after 3 years. So in my case, the Cayman is being actually driven at least 10 times as much. While that still isn't much in total, it does go right to exactly why I got it.
At this point I'd like to have another Porsche in the stable, and I have seen what I want, but I have 1 Hp horses too. The 4 legged kind. Hey those things cost ya too. But when my daughter goes to college and gets settled, I am definitely on the hunt for a GT3 as my not Jay Leno garage by any stretch, but a really fun do it all 2 car set to see me to the end of sports cars.
But Ill elaborate some of the choices I made to get to the Cayman.
I went to the 981 Cayman launch ( at another dealer here in Houston) in 2013 with a check in my truck to get one. It was such a metrosexual event driven by the particular dealers personnel, that I left early and went home with my check in my pocket.
A few weeks later I went by Ford looking for a new truck. And there set a Got To Have It Green Ford Mustang Boss 302. Me and the dealer boss and the owner are all tight, so in literally 15 minutes the Boss was bought and delivered a couple of days later. A nice Mustang with somewhat of the feel of my 1970 Mach 1 351 but better in every way of course.
Sometimes you have to go around to get around. I tried some other cars, and still came right back to Porsche and to the Cayman in particular.
Later a round at the track with almost all the Porsche cars reminded me of what I wanted and why. If I could have ordered it, that is had I really been paying attention earlier and known the 4 cylinder 718 was on tap, I would have likely gone a GTS with a few changes. But as it was I was caught flat footed and read there was going to be no more 6 cylinder Caymans. So I had to get busy and do some chit. And I did. The Cayman S suits me perfectly - just like I knew it was going to.
In my Cayman versus Boss ownership experience, I liked the Boss and Ford, but it wasn't close to the Porsche.
The Boss was bigger. It had tons of get up and go but its no faster even with the red key. The Boss costs less new by a long shot. You can buy them used for even less. We probably have every kind of Mustang there is right here in town. I wouldn't be super surprised if Bullitt rolled by. Heck there are fewer Caymans than 911s, so I like that.
The Boss was also heavier. It was also louder when you got on the loud pedal. Its a Mustang. The interior was ok but not anything except that. It had a trunk but no spare tire either. And I wasn't going to put Mrs TR in the Boss and take a trip down to San Antonio, or Dallas, or New Orleans, or further. All of which are just a fun little run in the Porsche. The Boss wasn't nearly as refined and multi faceted car as the Cayman in any regard. I figure if I wanted a big motor hot rod, I would strap a big inch built motor into an older Pontiac, or maybe a Dodge and go with that.
Is the Cayman a value car? I can say it easily is for me. But each owner has to make that equals sign total for himself. Yes it cost twice and more of my Boss. And another third over a Vette. And about a third less than a 991S. And I still have over a year to completely finish paying it off and that was putting in all the Boss sale money, and a trip to the bank for more of my own too as I didnt want any big payments on it. If I had a $1500 a month payment on it then I might feel differently. But I don't even think about the other cars anymore though. So in that context it was worth every nickel to me. I can't guess at whats it value will be later - and while it would be great if it happens to be good, I don't expect it to be anyting more than just what it is. For that matter my CS may be a long time finding a new owner - unless that 911R comes along. It is unlikely that any of these cars are going to appreciate anyway - or said another way, is that they will depreciate. Most all of these models are made in too big of numbers to become collectable cars anytime soon.
You know what else made it "value" in my mind? I looked at taking Mrs TR back to Europe again, but this time on one of the Porsche driving tours. It was going to be $25,000 at least. I said for my Boss, and 25K, I can get close to the Cayman I really want and we will take some trips here in the US. We can drive it, or I can put it in the trailer and haul it and drive it. Of course if I buy another new Porsche I am picking it up at the factory, but that is something for another time.
And the biggie . . none of the Mustangs, or the regular Vettes, or a Viper, have even close to the "feel" of the Cayman for me. I have had mine on curvy road runs here in Texas, yeah we have a few of those, and while it was spirited driving none of it was at the even close to the limit, and Cayman was in its element. It was so willing and so easy to drive too. Is it a drag car? No. Is it a muscle car? No. But it is a heck of a sports car and can easily do touring car duty. As for speed - you can easily spend a few quaint days in jail with just a little effort. It has speed to burn. And as I said before, that crest on the car drives Corvette drivers into fits. And they then spend a few quaint days in jail and in court.
Yes it gives up a little "prestige" to the 991 type 911. Oh well that happens sometimes. In my eye, the 981 Cayman looks better. It gives up some Hp too to the 911 or a GT3 and more to a Vette. But as the great Walter Rohrl said " Yes it is down just a little on power, but it turns in like no 911 can."
Something else is that the Cayman is just flat fun to drive. It puts a smile on my face every time I turn that Porsche shaped key. Mine is a year old with only 3000 miles and it will probably see more maybe 5000 miles this year. But every one of those was good. BTW I had 700 miles on the Boss when it moved out after 3 years. So in my case, the Cayman is being actually driven at least 10 times as much. While that still isn't much in total, it does go right to exactly why I got it.
At this point I'd like to have another Porsche in the stable, and I have seen what I want, but I have 1 Hp horses too. The 4 legged kind. Hey those things cost ya too. But when my daughter goes to college and gets settled, I am definitely on the hunt for a GT3 as my not Jay Leno garage by any stretch, but a really fun do it all 2 car set to see me to the end of sports cars.
Last edited by TexasRider; 06-28-2017 at 01:51 AM. Reason: sp
06-28-2017, 11:02 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Great great viewpoints being shared here guys. Awesome.
TR - your approach is spot on and one that is very close to mine. I daily drive my Cayman and dig it's practicality and as you've pointed out, it's got more than enough skooch to get impounded for a week (happens with speeds 25 MPH over the limit).
And although I do lust for a GT car (GT3 variant, GT4?) I do love the contrast of a second car being from the air-cooled generation. The're super fun, very "analog" with very simple stripped down interiors, not a ton of power, and a great MT to row through the gears. There's a sense of "occasion" when you fire it up and head out. And it's a car my wife actually likes, which of course is a bonus.
lencap - whether you know it or not you've stumbled into a GREAT forum filled with GREAT Porsche owners. If petrol-head comradery is something you're looking for I am not sure you'll be able to top it. I've enjoyed your viewpoints and travels along the way. I think you'll eevntually bump into a Porsche that will tick enough boxes for you that you'll be downloading pictures, saving them as your desktop background, driving past the dealership at night etc... and... BAMM! You'll pick it up. Good luck on your hunt!
TR - your approach is spot on and one that is very close to mine. I daily drive my Cayman and dig it's practicality and as you've pointed out, it's got more than enough skooch to get impounded for a week (happens with speeds 25 MPH over the limit).
And although I do lust for a GT car (GT3 variant, GT4?) I do love the contrast of a second car being from the air-cooled generation. The're super fun, very "analog" with very simple stripped down interiors, not a ton of power, and a great MT to row through the gears. There's a sense of "occasion" when you fire it up and head out. And it's a car my wife actually likes, which of course is a bonus.
lencap - whether you know it or not you've stumbled into a GREAT forum filled with GREAT Porsche owners. If petrol-head comradery is something you're looking for I am not sure you'll be able to top it. I've enjoyed your viewpoints and travels along the way. I think you'll eevntually bump into a Porsche that will tick enough boxes for you that you'll be downloading pictures, saving them as your desktop background, driving past the dealership at night etc... and... BAMM! You'll pick it up. Good luck on your hunt!
06-28-2017, 01:52 PM
#27
Late Porkchops
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
If you want to go with young tatted crowd - Stang
Older greying gold chain Rolex crowd - Vette
All Pro - Go Stuttgart
Seriously - the Porsche is more car than either IMO and has great build quality. Spec on spec on paper the Cayman might not show it but its Hp feels bigger. Heck if you think it needs lots more, they got some turbos too.
The Cayman just costs more.
I could have sprung for the 991S and Ill tell you it was tempting. Primarily because it is a 911. It is also darn fine driving and handling car. It was also going to be about $50,000 more - but I still liked driving the Cayman more. If I had bought it for the prestige factor or here is my 911 - yeah I guess. But Ive never been about that. Heck a few guys here even said hell man get a 911 because it is Porsche's car, and maybe one day I will.
I like the hot rod Camaro too. That bugger is fast. It also carried some "availability" charge. Not for me. Ill pay the sticker but I won't pay more. Seeing out of the Camaro isn't the best. But it just doesn't have the Porsche feel.
Heck in some ways I'd use a 370 Z as a daily. I always liked Zs and had them in 260 a few of times. My buddies scoffed at the idea, making me more likely to do it. Then they said TR the high school parking lots are full of them . . and Ill be damn if they weren't right. Again after driving the Cayman though, it fell out.