lencap

Greetings -

Last time i bought a Porsche was 1987, a new 911, which I owned very briefly. Since then I've owned dozens of cars, but not another Porsche. At my age, I'm a "senior citizen", it's time I rectify that long hiatus.

So, a year ago I found an immaculate 2015 911 locally owned by a fellow Rennlist member. The car was spotless, only 6K miles, and equipped as I would like - a base car with panoramic roof, a required manual transmission (sorry, I'm old and like to shift myself), and some other nice basic options. The car was worth every penny that the seller asked, but I wasn't ready to make the commitment, and I've been regretting that decision ever since as manual transmission cars are harder to find, and prices continue to firm.

I've located a CPO base Cayman from an authorized dealer about 5 hours from my home. The car is base, manual tranny, 19" S wheels, Bi-Xenon headlights with the PDLS, Power Steering plus, XM radio, multifunction wheel, standard interior (black), dimming mirrors, sport tailpipes and tinted taillights. Frankly, other than the Bi-Xenon headlights, which I appreciate with my old eyes, the rest of the options are not significant to me.

What is significant is my intended use of the car. It's a "third car", likely a weekend/weekday fun toy for whenever the mood strikes me. I also have a Moto Guzzi California 1400 Motorcycle, and between the Porsche and the MG I think I've covered all of my toy requirements.

My question is about the base Cayman from this perspective: I don't intend to drive this car at/near the limit, likely not often above 6/10 of the limit. I'm in a city with about 500K people, and radar is everywhere along with photo cameras, etc. I don't expect to drive with real "attitude", but I do enjoy the feel of a fun to drive car. The Cayman S on paper is a better tool for many uses, but given my outlook it seems like overkill. I'm not much of a 0-60 guy, but I do enjoy handling. The other issue is that dedicated performance setups make the ride hard for my old bones, and makes my wife unwilling to ride for long distances. My motorcycle, for example, is my toy - she doesn't ride any more.

My goal is to have an enjoyable machine for when the urge strikes, provide a platform for my wife to join me in that journey, and give her a platform that she may actually drive herself (she was a very skilled driver, but arthritis has taken a toll). The car I found is CPO warrantied until 2021, and the car has under 7K miles on it.

My everyday DD is a 2017 VW Sportwagen 5 speed manual. It's amazing how much I enjoy that car. It does everything I want (carries grandkids and their stuff, costs nothing to own/run, and is surprising in how it drives - 170HP from a 1.8liter turbo). It also makes me wonder if I need the Cayman at all - I really won't use that much more performance from it compared to my DD routine in my neighborhood. On the other hand, I would hate to loose out on a CPO 6 cylinder engine Cayman (I really will miss that sound). I don't want to regret letting this car pass me by, like I did last year with the 911 Carrera.

Given what I've described, is my decision to purchase the Cayman reasonable? I'm not worried about resale value, but I also don't want to get something that won't "scratch my itch" when I need it to. So, do I have the right tool for the job? I believe I do, but your thoughts are welcome and invited.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

lencap

Any replies are welcome - especially related to the base Cayman and driving enjoyment. I'm not overly worried about resale value, and I assume that a late model manual transmission 6 cylinder engine Cayman with CPO warranty will certainly be attractive to a future owner, if I later decide to resell the car.

champignon

Of course no one can answer this question for you. The question would be if you like the car and if you enjoy driving it? Does the expected depreciation over the next few years look like something you can't accept, or is it irrelevant to you? If you are happy with the power of your VW DD, then obviously the Cayman will have considerably more than that. The MT in the Porsche will be far superior to what you have in the VW. The Cayman will have electric power steering, but if you are happy with how this feels when you drive the car, that is not important.

This car will probably suffer considerable price depreciation over the next few years, given that it is so new at this point. That would be the major issue in my mind, that the car is a bit too new to have already gotten deeply into its depreciation curve. Also, if you wanted a very powerful car, it might be better to get an "S" model.

Good luck!

lencap

Thanks for the reply. I expect it to depreciate, but the dealer is offering me the car at the lowest price I've found compared to other dealerships within 500 miles of me, and it includes a CPO warranty until September 2021. That seems pretty reasonable. I also think that late model 6 cylinder cars will hold value a bit better as some will undoubtedly prefer that engine to the newer 4 cylinder cars (even if they are technically better - they won't sound the same).

The 2016 model I'm looking at is a base car, with 19" Cayman S wheels, convenience package, Bi-Xenon PDLS, Power steering Plus, Sport tailpipes, auto dimming mirrors/integrated rain sensors, multifunction steering wheel, XM satellite radio. I've seen 2014 cars selling in the low $40s with CPO warranty, so maybe the depreciation won't be too bad - $10K depreciation over two years is about $400/month - well worth it from my perspective. If it's $15K for depreciation, I'd be a somewhat surprised, but even then the cost is $600/month. Not particularly cheap, but not as much as a lease.

Any other thoughts about deprecation are welcome, and I'd especially like comments about the driving experience versus the S model, or versus other cars.

By the way, I also have a Moto Guzzi California 1400 motorcycle - a very enjoyable ride. Between the Porsche, VW and the Moto Guzzi, all three vehicles total less than the base price for a new 911 with fees/taxes. Not bad at all from my perspective.

Thanks again to all.

eyedoc

Considering you're not tracking the car, a base Cayman will offer all the sport handling, braking and performance you seem to require. I can relate to everything you want out of this car. It is for these same reasons I have a base 09 Boxster, 19"Cayman wheels, MT, Bi-Xenon headlights, with Dynamic cornering, rain sensor/self dimming mirrors, heated seats- all I need! Don't stress over depreciation-it's not a rare car, and therefore not an investment. Maintain it,drive it & enjoy it. There will always be some value in the fact that it is NA 6 cyl manual.

lencap

Thanks Eyedoc - it's great to have your perspective as it seems to exactly mirror my own. In the end of all the cars I've owned, the ones I remember the most had something special - a joy of driving/ownership/etc.

The base Cayman ticks all the right boxes for me. And frankly, at my age, the biggest mistake is worrying about depreciation. No one wants to have a lot of depreciation, but for me the bigger issue is "how much time is left to enjoy a sports car"?

I'm in good health, and hope to remain that way, but reality suggests that delaying to find the perfect car at the best possible price isn't the best strategy. Having the time to enjoy a great car with my wife of 45 years is the goal - and for that a basic three pedal sports car can't be beat.

eyedoc

Lencap. PM sent

lencap

Thanks Eyedoc - I replied.

bkrantz

lencap, as one senior to another, I say use your wisdom to decide how much car you really need--and dismiss any ideas of image or impressing others. Like eyedoc posted, a recent base model Cayman is an incredible car with amazing performance. It may not be as fast as a Cayman S, or 991, or GT4, or ...

But it may be fast enough for you. I say, please yourself.

lencap

Thanks BK - I appreciate the advice, and I agree with it wholeheartedly.

kcheves

I had a base 987 Cayman, and it was a fantastic car. The handling was superior to my 911, and I thought the power (which was less than the 981 you're looking at) was perfectly adequate if you kept the revs up. It's a very fun car, you'll love it.

ejdoherty911

For the purpose you describe a 2016 base Cayman should be a very enjoyable ride. The mid engine set up and Porsche quality should offer a sporty ride you are currently not experiencing with the VW.

lencap

Greetings to All -

I've been "radio silent" as I consider what I want with my car purchase decision. The bottom line is not what I expected - I'm going to do nothing right now. I've driven the 2016 & 2017 Caymans, both base and S versions. They are all fine machines, and that's part of the confusion.

I have an inherent bias against the 4 cylinder engines - this is bias, not fact, and so it's hard to be objective. I was raised on NA engines, and find turbo/supercharging not "real" engines. That's my bias, and I admit it. The problem is that when I drove the newer 4 cylinder engines I found that they weren't so bad. Yes, the exhaust note was different, but in reality, I learned that sometimes being louder isn't better. This may not apply to everyone, but as you know I'm a senior - and as much as I'm surprised to write this, I rather enjoyed the different exhaust note of the 4 cylinder engines. It's not a F1 sound, and lots of times it sounds pretty strange, but it isn't a reason to dismiss the entire car.

I'm also unsure what these newer engines will mean for future valuation. Do the older 6 cylinders hold value better as people prefer their more comforting exhaust sounds, or in a year or so will the added performance of the newer engines make believers out of us "older folk". I don't know, so for now the main reason for buying the 2016 Cayman was to have "the last of the breed". While that's still true, I'm not sure if that's enough of a reason to buy the 2016 car.

I have another inherent bias - against American cars. I don't think I have to explain this bias very much - it's been with me for decades and I'm sure I'm not alone with it. So, another completely unexpected result of my testing was my drive in a friend's Shelby GT350. I don't have the skill to get the most out of this car, but he does. To say I was surprised is an understatement. The car is in many ways the polar opposite of the Porsche cars. The Shelby is relatively heavy, revs to a very healthy 8250 RPMS, and has sight lines that are best described as "interesting". It was a completely different feel than any of the Porsches. His friend has a Grand Sport Corvette that I drove "in anger" on a closed corse. It also surprised me - another different car, with some similarities to the Porsche, but a very different feel as well.

What this led me to consider is the difference in "American Iron" design. Both the Corvette and Shelby had low end torque to a greater degree than the Caymans (naturally so given their displacement and intended mission), and truth be told the "finesse" feeling of the Porsche, which is very evident compared to the American cars, wasn't as much fun in everyday driving compared to the higher torque of the other cars. Don't misunderstand my comment - I live in a city with a population of 500,000. In that setting there are lots of 25-30 MPH crowded streets, lots of red lights, lots of law enforcement and generally lots of other things that prevent, or at least severely limit, the type of open road and sweeping turn driving that makes a sports car truly fun and engaging. In that environment straight line speed, even if it's from stoplight to stoplight on occasion, can be entertaining. And when that burst is powered by tons of torque, it's actually more fun than I expected. I haven't driven a high HP high torque American engine car in decades. And when I did they had far less low end torque and typically terrible handling. That's not my experience with the current crop of American cars. Again, I'm not saying that we should all buy American cars, but I am saying that if I look at what they offer I can understand why many people like them. Frankly, I did too.

That's probably what attracted me to the 718 Cayman - the greater torque compared to the 2016 Cayman is very noticeable, especially in base model trim. To finalize my confusion, my friend introduced me to the Ford dealer (he has a Shelby as well) and he told me that with the new 2018 Mustang about to hit showrooms, there are amazing deals on outgoing 2017 Mustang GTs. He offered to sell me a Mustang GT (base model, not the Premium) with 6 speed manual transmission, 435 HP, 400 TQ, lots of standard equipment - bluetooth, all kinds of "modes", and lots more, for $30,000 brand new "out the door price". That includes a $1300 gas guzzler tax. Think about that for a moment - $30K including taxes, fees, shipping, registration, etc. and including a 3 year 36K bumper to bumper warranty and a 5 year 60K mile powertrain warranty.

That kind of caught my attention. Yes, few people cross shop Mustangs and Caymans - I get it, but I also drove the base Mustang and like the other cars it has a bucket of TQ at low RPMs, and revs pretty aggressively. Being heavier (3700 pounds) it's more of a GT than true sports car, but it is also far more comfortable on public roads, and despite not handling like the Cayman it's actually more usable than I expected it to be.

So, with all of that confusion, regardless of what I decide, I realize that I'm not in a position to make a definitive commitment. And for that reason, I decided to wait until I do have a better idea of what I want. My heart is on the Porsche, likely a Cayman based on price, but it's pretty hard to ignore the value of the American cars, especially as the new models are coming out. I also have to really determine how much "pure driving" I'll actually do. The open road is a great goal, but the reality is that open roads aren't very common where I live, and may not be where you live either. In that environment, is there a better "tool" for everyday driving than the cars I'm considering.

The Shelby is still selling at sticker price - about $60K, that's for a 529 HP car with a 8250 redline and great track tools built in (magnetic shocks, etc.). The Grand Sport was about the same price, with track package and even higher HP/TQ. The Mustang GT is HALF the price of either, still gives some LOL moments when floored, and costs almost nothing to run (with the exception of 15 MPG gas in town). The point isn't that anyone should buy an American car because of the price, but my bias against American cars definitely took a different turn after having put lots of time in the Shelby, Corvette and Mustang GT. By the way, the three 718 Cayman S cars I saw, equipped with lots of toys (many of which aren't needed/necessary) topped $85,000 - $90,000 at the dealership I visited. That surprised me quite a bit. $85K versus $30K for a Mustang. Yeah, I know - apples and oranges, and maybe even thoughts of outrage at making the comparison. But seriously, at least for me, is the Cayman S worth THREE Mustang GTs? That's a lot harder to answer from a purely objective perspective after hours behind the wheel of each car.

Different cars, different missions, different perspectives and "baggage", but my snobbery did indeed have a swift kick applied to it in just the right places. A 435 HP/400 TQ brand new car for $30,000 out the door. Really?, REALLY!, Really?! - that's just how I felt, and it was totally unexpected.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts, suggestions and patience. I'm as surprised as you are about this post - I seriously never thought I'd be writing anything like this.

FactoryMatt

go 987.2 with the 2.9.

$30K. more visceral steering. still get the sound. plenty of thrust in second gear (still geared to 70+). cockpit feels more like your old 911. don't have to worry about de-coking the Direct Injection deposits down the road.

if you're going merican, drive the camero (i know you mentioned the vette). maybe a 1LE? By all accounts the chassis is world-beating. i.e. puts M cars to shame. sight-lines are a challenge though. talking last of a breed, OHV pushrod small block.....

lencap

Thanks Factory - I did drive the Camaro - I couldn't see out of the car! The front windows are slits, the back view is worse, side sill height is ridiculous. They took a wonderful chassis and engine and put it into a basically unusable body shell.

I still admire and covet Porsche cars - they are special for a reason. The purpose of my post was only to suggest that the experience of driving all of these cars made me focus on the primary point - What is my intended driving use, and which tool best matches that use?

I still am a handling junkie - that's Porsche's strength, and likely always will be. The rest of the post just tried to highlight my conflicts - suburban environment with limited open road riding potential, the reality of speed cameras, radar/laser, etc. In those circumstances I can fully appreciate why people choose HP/TQ over handling.