Cayman S
02-24-2005, 11:06 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
OK, I'll be the bad guy.
I'm not too keen on a Boxster coupe, particularly if they are going to continue to position it below a 911. The Boxster was designed from the ground up as a convertible, and it looks great as a convertible. The 911 was a coupe even from long ago, and the cab looks.....well......like an afterthought. There isn't much of a price spread between the Boxster S and a Carrera, and PAG has declared that the Cayman (boy, that name sucks) will be positioned both in price and assuming performance between the Boxster and the 911.
Given the above, there's only one simple conclusion for me. Want a Porsche convertible? Get the Boxster. Want a coupe? Get the 911.
As always, that's IMHO. I'll put on a flame suit anyways
.
I'm not too keen on a Boxster coupe, particularly if they are going to continue to position it below a 911. The Boxster was designed from the ground up as a convertible, and it looks great as a convertible. The 911 was a coupe even from long ago, and the cab looks.....well......like an afterthought. There isn't much of a price spread between the Boxster S and a Carrera, and PAG has declared that the Cayman (boy, that name sucks) will be positioned both in price and assuming performance between the Boxster and the 911.
Given the above, there's only one simple conclusion for me. Want a Porsche convertible? Get the Boxster. Want a coupe? Get the 911.
As always, that's IMHO. I'll put on a flame suit anyways
.
02-24-2005, 11:09 AM
#17
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You're not the only one who feels that way. There's an interesting thread on the Pelican board about the new car here: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=207879
Not many fans there, either. Too bad, I think it'll be a kick *** car. ..bad name notwithstanding.
Not many fans there, either. Too bad, I think it'll be a kick *** car. ..bad name notwithstanding.
02-24-2005, 11:30 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by Palting
Given the above, there's only one simple conclusion for me. Want a Porsche convertible? Get the Boxster. Want a coupe? Get the 911.
As always, that's IMHO. I'll put on a flame suit anyways.
As always, that's IMHO. I'll put on a flame suit anyways
.
02-24-2005, 02:37 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by MikeN
There's only one problem with that theory.......I don't want to pay the extra $15k for the base 911. There are tons of people who want a more affordable coupe from Porsche........I don't like roadsters at all.
And, let's face it. Any car that costs upwards of $50K would not be in the "affordable" category. That $7-8K diff, spread out over several years payment by loan or by lease payments, won't seem so big once anyone starts looking at cars in this price range.
02-24-2005, 04:04 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Palting
No, the price diff will not be $15K. Remember, this Cayman will be priced between th Boxster S at $53K and the C2 at $70K. Estimate price diff would be $7-8K.
And, let's face it. Any car that costs upwards of $50K would not be in the "affordable" category. That $7-8K diff, spread out over several years payment by loan or by lease payments, won't seem so big once anyone starts looking at cars in this price range.
And, let's face it. Any car that costs upwards of $50K would not be in the "affordable" category. That $7-8K diff, spread out over several years payment by loan or by lease payments, won't seem so big once anyone starts looking at cars in this price range.
"Want a Porsche convertible? Get the Boxster. Want a coupe? Get the 911."
Well there most certainly is a $17K difference between the Boxster S and the base 911.......those were the two you meant.....right??
No, I don't want to pay $70K for a 911 at this point, it's not worth it to me. What's wrong with Porsche coming out with a lower than 911 priced coupe?.....and if it's fully based on the Boxster it should be priced in the same range as the Boxster.
Even with a $50K car I'm not stupid enough to fork over another $7k just because Porsche thinks I should. Maybe some will.......I won't.
02-25-2005, 12:55 AM
#21
The latest unofficial shots look quite different from the masked spyshots we've been seeing. The aft roofline is continuous where the previous spyshots show a break in the curve. Also the hips look smoothed out a bit which is beneficial to the design. The big hips look good on the drop top, not so on the coupe.
02-25-2005, 02:39 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by MikeN
There's only one problem with that theory.......I don't want to pay the extra $15k for the base 911. There are tons of people who want a more affordable coupe from Porsche........I don't like roadsters at all.
The price difference between the Cayman and 997 base will be 10K at most, and I am more than willing to get the 997 instead.
02-25-2005, 10:23 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
I must admit the boxster coupe idea sounded good to me - I weanted a hot one, light weight, get the 3,6 engine in there and it could be serious fun.
However I can't see myself driving around in a "cay-man-***" as its sure to be known shortly.
Cross me off the list of potential customers just because of the name !!!
What was wrong with "Boxster coupe"?
If they say you couldn't use boxster because it was derived from roadster then
boxer + coupe = "Boxer C", "Boxcoupe", "Boxscoupe", Edsel, Ferdinand, Baron,
...gimmy some help here !!
should we send a petition to Porsche?
However I can't see myself driving around in a "cay-man-***" as its sure to be known shortly.
Cross me off the list of potential customers just because of the name !!!
What was wrong with "Boxster coupe"?
If they say you couldn't use boxster because it was derived from roadster then
boxer + coupe = "Boxer C", "Boxcoupe", "Boxscoupe", Edsel, Ferdinand, Baron,
...gimmy some help here !!
should we send a petition to Porsche?
02-25-2005, 10:57 AM
#25
I always thought "Boxster" was lame. And "Cayenne" seems totally out of place. Actually I think Cayman and Cayenne should trade names. "Cay-man-***" is a sretch... I think it will be referred to simply as Cayman. But we have to get past the names. They don't mean squat.
BMW should have named the 1-series "Beavis".
BMW should have named the 1-series "Beavis".
02-25-2005, 01:25 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Targa Tim
Buy a Boxster S, buy the optional hard top, put it on all the time, then this is your cheap Porsche coupe. The total price you pay will be cheaper than the Cayman.
The price difference between the Cayman and 997 base will be 10K at most, and I am more than willing to get the 997 instead.
The price difference between the Cayman and 997 base will be 10K at most, and I am more than willing to get the 997 instead.
02-25-2005, 02:00 PM
#27
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that first photo is just a 911 with some boxster touches "thrown on."
Notice how long the rear side windows are? This is a mid-engine car not a rear engine car, right? I can't wait to see this thing because it just might be exactly what I'm looking for.
If history is any guide, they will release a non-S version of it in 6-10 months like they did with the SUV.
boxster starts at 43,800...911 starts at 69,300. That's almost 27,000 dollars difference...essentially half again the price...not exactly something you can "hide through financing."
If you are looking to get a porsche, but don't have any desire to get a convertible, then you've been waiting for this for a long time.
This year we get the 295 hp S version, and next year we get the as-of-yet unannounced 265 hp "regular" cayman with 17" rims and no PSM or something to help make up for the otherwise negligible differences. The cayman will by its very nature be more solid and at the same time lighter than the boxster. It is going to be something quite different from a 911.
Notice how long the rear side windows are? This is a mid-engine car not a rear engine car, right? I can't wait to see this thing because it just might be exactly what I'm looking for.
If history is any guide, they will release a non-S version of it in 6-10 months like they did with the SUV.
boxster starts at 43,800...911 starts at 69,300. That's almost 27,000 dollars difference...essentially half again the price...not exactly something you can "hide through financing."
If you are looking to get a porsche, but don't have any desire to get a convertible, then you've been waiting for this for a long time.
This year we get the 295 hp S version, and next year we get the as-of-yet unannounced 265 hp "regular" cayman with 17" rims and no PSM or something to help make up for the otherwise negligible differences. The cayman will by its very nature be more solid and at the same time lighter than the boxster. It is going to be something quite different from a 911.
02-25-2005, 02:34 PM
#28
Advanced
I thought I had read a couple of months back that the "base" Cayman (or C7 at the time) would basically be a Boxster S coupe. And the C7S, or Cayman S now, would have a more powerful engine. That all makes sense.
So, let's pretend that things do happen that way and in 2 years one can basically get a Boxster S coupe (Cayman) for the same price as the Boxster S (but with better performance since it will be a lighter, more rigid car), or you can pay more, say 8-10K more, and get a more powerful car with a few more options thrown in, like 19" wheels and PASM.
Would that really be that crazy? After all, what does a 997S offer for 10K more than a base 997 other than the engine and a couple of options?
Whatever the 997S has over a base 997 is probably what the Cayman S will have over a Cayman. And since a base Cayman will really be a Boxster S coupe, is it nuts for Porsche to ask more for the Cayman S than the Boxster S?
They *should* charge less for a coupe than for a convertible, but this is Porsche, they charge more for performance, period. And ceteris paribus, a coupe will be a better perfermer than its cabrio version.
They should have introduced the base Cayman first in my opinion. Then they could have charged the same as the Boxster S, probably make more money (since a coupe is cheaper to make than a cabrio) and it would have been faster than a Boxster S. Everyone would love it. Then they could have offered the even higher-performing Cayman S for another 8-10K and people would have had no problems with it.
Just poor marketing and a horrendous name.
So, let's pretend that things do happen that way and in 2 years one can basically get a Boxster S coupe (Cayman) for the same price as the Boxster S (but with better performance since it will be a lighter, more rigid car), or you can pay more, say 8-10K more, and get a more powerful car with a few more options thrown in, like 19" wheels and PASM.
Would that really be that crazy? After all, what does a 997S offer for 10K more than a base 997 other than the engine and a couple of options?
Whatever the 997S has over a base 997 is probably what the Cayman S will have over a Cayman. And since a base Cayman will really be a Boxster S coupe, is it nuts for Porsche to ask more for the Cayman S than the Boxster S?
They *should* charge less for a coupe than for a convertible, but this is Porsche, they charge more for performance, period. And ceteris paribus, a coupe will be a better perfermer than its cabrio version.
They should have introduced the base Cayman first in my opinion. Then they could have charged the same as the Boxster S, probably make more money (since a coupe is cheaper to make than a cabrio) and it would have been faster than a Boxster S. Everyone would love it. Then they could have offered the even higher-performing Cayman S for another 8-10K and people would have had no problems with it.
Just poor marketing and a horrendous name.
Last edited by mbr129; 02-25-2005 at 03:50 PM.
02-25-2005, 03:48 PM
#29
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I actually think it was luck and happenstance that the Boxster came ot as a convertible first. Before the Boxster, Porsche was dying. The Boxster, a cheaper Porsche, mid-engine, fun, sport-about convertible saved the company. It appealed to a whole new market totally separate from the 911 market. The coup, I think, would have been too close to the 911 and would not have had the same result. Taking the lesson learned that other markets want the Porsche marque, Porsche then further broadened their base with the Pepper. Now, they are trying to fill in the gaps with the Lizard.
02-25-2005, 07:12 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Palting
Want a Porsche convertible? Get the Boxster. Want a coupe? Get the 911.