Friend looking at a gt4
08-20-2018, 06:06 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Is your info confirmed?
I think this is a great topic of discussion, as much of the info out there is unconfirmed.
I once pinned the limiter for a brief sec (literally was a few tenths of a sec) on my old 991, and was worried about the DME. I then called my shop (a very reputable Porsche race builder I wish to keep unnamed) and asked if I had to worry about anything (overrevs on my DME). I was told, overrevs are only accumulated from downshifting into post rev limiter ranges, ie downshifting while high in rev range, into a pinned rev limit situation.
Another anecdote I will share is with a friend who is a tech in Porsche Service, who used to own a 981S. He is an extremely meticulous tech and car owner, who also pinned the car once or twice and in a paranoid state ran a DME Report (for free, must be nice) and the DME didn't record any overrevs each time.
Lastly, on the 981/991 if you pin the car, the ecu cuts fuel. So I am not sure if this instance records an overrev, I do not believe it does as that is what the fuel cut is for. Finally, the car mentioned above was clearly a track car. Probably by a driver who tracked it with autoblip off and this is most likely what led to the extensive overrev counts.
Lots of conflicting info out there. It would be great if a BGB, SST, HRD, GMG, RS1, or even a dealer could shed some light on the matter and put the myths to rest. For now, I am always careful but I do trust my sources, and believe that pinning will not show on a DME.
I think this is a great topic of discussion, as much of the info out there is unconfirmed.
I once pinned the limiter for a brief sec (literally was a few tenths of a sec) on my old 991, and was worried about the DME. I then called my shop (a very reputable Porsche race builder I wish to keep unnamed) and asked if I had to worry about anything (overrevs on my DME). I was told, overrevs are only accumulated from downshifting into post rev limiter ranges, ie downshifting while high in rev range, into a pinned rev limit situation.
Another anecdote I will share is with a friend who is a tech in Porsche Service, who used to own a 981S. He is an extremely meticulous tech and car owner, who also pinned the car once or twice and in a paranoid state ran a DME Report (for free, must be nice) and the DME didn't record any overrevs each time.
Lastly, on the 981/991 if you pin the car, the ecu cuts fuel. So I am not sure if this instance records an overrev, I do not believe it does as that is what the fuel cut is for. Finally, the car mentioned above was clearly a track car. Probably by a driver who tracked it with autoblip off and this is most likely what led to the extensive overrev counts.
Lots of conflicting info out there. It would be great if a BGB, SST, HRD, GMG, RS1, or even a dealer could shed some light on the matter and put the myths to rest. For now, I am always careful but I do trust my sources, and believe that pinning will not show on a DME.
Just bouncing off the rev limiter would only show range 1, maybe 2.
08-20-2018, 06:21 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
The driver of the car money shifted. It occurred 20 engine operating hours ago. Not enough time to know for sure if there is no damage, but given more time, it will be known with more certainty. Porsche will still CPO a car with range 5-6 over revs if there has been 100 operating hours since the incident.
My friend over rev'd my GT4 to a range 6, and then did another over rev to range 5 a few weeks later. I continued to drive and track the car for another 30 track days and the engine ran just fine. The reality is the engine was undamaged. The perception by the hand wringers is that the car is untouchable. Perception over rules reality, so I sold the car to carmaxx. I know plenty more people with GT4 over revs range 5 and 6 whose cars are still running at the track totally fine. It definitely turns into a PITA during resale time, which is why I didn't bother doing a private sale, but if the number of hours since the event occurred comes close to 100, the engine is fine.
08-20-2018, 06:27 PM
#18
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08-20-2018, 07:41 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
08-20-2018, 07:41 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
Pffftt... Hold my beer. I've seen plenty worse and the cars all still run just fine with no issues.
The driver of the car money shifted. It occurred 20 engine operating hours ago. Not enough time to know for sure if there is no damage, but given more time, it will be known with more certainty. Porsche will still CPO a car with range 5-6 over revs if there has been 100 operating hours since the incident.
My friend over rev'd my GT4 to a range 6, and then did another over rev to range 5 a few weeks later. I continued to drive and track the car for another 30 track days and the engine ran just fine. The reality is the engine was undamaged. The perception by the hand wringers is that the car is untouchable. Perception over rules reality, so I sold the car to carmaxx. I know plenty more people with GT4 over revs range 5 and 6 whose cars are still running at the track totally fine. It definitely turns into a PITA during resale time, which is why I didn't bother doing a private sale, but if the number of hours since the event occurred comes close to 100, the engine is fine.
The driver of the car money shifted. It occurred 20 engine operating hours ago. Not enough time to know for sure if there is no damage, but given more time, it will be known with more certainty. Porsche will still CPO a car with range 5-6 over revs if there has been 100 operating hours since the incident.
My friend over rev'd my GT4 to a range 6, and then did another over rev to range 5 a few weeks later. I continued to drive and track the car for another 30 track days and the engine ran just fine. The reality is the engine was undamaged. The perception by the hand wringers is that the car is untouchable. Perception over rules reality, so I sold the car to carmaxx. I know plenty more people with GT4 over revs range 5 and 6 whose cars are still running at the track totally fine. It definitely turns into a PITA during resale time, which is why I didn't bother doing a private sale, but if the number of hours since the event occurred comes close to 100, the engine is fine.
I wouldn't immediately write that car off but I probably would do a compression test as part of the ppi and if the results are fine engine is probably fine. My GT4 limiter is set to 8150rpm, others have spun the 9a1 higher without issue but the stock engine doesn't make any power up there so it isn't really a thing.
08-20-2018, 07:45 PM
#22
Pffftt... Hold my beer. I've seen plenty worse and the cars all still run just fine with no issues.
The driver of the car money shifted. It occurred 20 engine operating hours ago. Not enough time to know for sure if there is no damage, but given more time, it will be known with more certainty. Porsche will still CPO a car with range 5-6 over revs if there has been 100 operating hours since the incident.
My friend over rev'd my GT4 to a range 6, and then did another over rev to range 5 a few weeks later. I continued to drive and track the car for another 30 track days and the engine ran just fine. The reality is the engine was undamaged. The perception by the hand wringers is that the car is untouchable. Perception over rules reality, so I sold the car to carmaxx. I know plenty more people with GT4 over revs range 5 and 6 whose cars are still running at the track totally fine. It definitely turns into a PITA during resale time, which is why I didn't bother doing a private sale, but if the number of hours since the event occurred comes close to 100, the engine is fine.
The driver of the car money shifted. It occurred 20 engine operating hours ago. Not enough time to know for sure if there is no damage, but given more time, it will be known with more certainty. Porsche will still CPO a car with range 5-6 over revs if there has been 100 operating hours since the incident.
My friend over rev'd my GT4 to a range 6, and then did another over rev to range 5 a few weeks later. I continued to drive and track the car for another 30 track days and the engine ran just fine. The reality is the engine was undamaged. The perception by the hand wringers is that the car is untouchable. Perception over rules reality, so I sold the car to carmaxx. I know plenty more people with GT4 over revs range 5 and 6 whose cars are still running at the track totally fine. It definitely turns into a PITA during resale time, which is why I didn't bother doing a private sale, but if the number of hours since the event occurred comes close to 100, the engine is fine.
08-20-2018, 07:52 PM
#23
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Archimedes
All good and well but given there's about a hundred GT4s out there for sale, why take the risk? If there's nothing to the DME report, why do they even log over revs?
08-20-2018, 09:15 PM
#24
Pro
Thread Starter
So to add some color to the situation
the consigner owns an Indy Porsche shop , and is a good friend both the seller and the buyer. The owner and the seller know each other. The seller has deep pockets and put a ton of money into this car after all said done went and bought a gt4 clubsport and 18 gt3. And is Going to take big hit but is fine it.
I have nothing to do w the transaction other than helping buyer who is a porsche noob. I also know all 3 parties and would comfortably say the sellers would stand behind the car if the motor detonated in short order but want it in writing. Having said all of that I agree no shortage of gt4 s out there so easy to find others drama free but with the exception this car is set up over the top!
Was as going to speak w our local pcar service dept tmrw to see if that car came in w engine issue if it would be denied w this dme report
in service date is early 16
the consigner owns an Indy Porsche shop , and is a good friend both the seller and the buyer. The owner and the seller know each other. The seller has deep pockets and put a ton of money into this car after all said done went and bought a gt4 clubsport and 18 gt3. And is Going to take big hit but is fine it.
I have nothing to do w the transaction other than helping buyer who is a porsche noob. I also know all 3 parties and would comfortably say the sellers would stand behind the car if the motor detonated in short order but want it in writing. Having said all of that I agree no shortage of gt4 s out there so easy to find others drama free but with the exception this car is set up over the top!
Was as going to speak w our local pcar service dept tmrw to see if that car came in w engine issue if it would be denied w this dme report
in service date is early 16
08-20-2018, 09:36 PM
#27
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Does the car have a tune on it?
08-20-2018, 09:44 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
He buzzed the engine and held it in range 4 longer than range 3, completely probable but possibly indicative of over commitment in a turn.
Your logic is sound and you are absolutely correct, your driver's instinct would direct you to get out of the Over Rev situation ASAP - but data show that apparently was not done here. Not exactly something for a driver to brag about. (data does not lie)
Correct, but stated another way; It only indicates the LAST time an over rev situation occurred and how many counts duration at that incident.
THIS ! Once again dOOd is true
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DME REPORT, it directs you to now focus on the transmission. Drive the car and note shifting/downshift smoothness under a variety of conditions. If you notice the slightest hesitation, notchiness, excessive takeup, clunking, etc then you've found something. Stock GT4 transmission is smooth and easy to shift. If you drive it and it is fine then perhaps negotiate price downwards mentioning DME report will cause diminished value upon you reselling it later.
These are robust cars and it could be fine but your re-sale will be diminished by that report.
Your logic is sound and you are absolutely correct, your driver's instinct would direct you to get out of the Over Rev situation ASAP - but data show that apparently was not done here. Not exactly something for a driver to brag about. (data does not lie)
I’m not an expert here but can someone explain to me how you can have more range 4 over revs than range 3.
Report shows 358 over revs in range 4 and only 69 in range 3.
My logic is that you would hit range 3 prior to hitting range 4 so range 3 number should be higher or possibly equal to range 4.
Or or is my logic completely screwed up and I reading the report wrong.
Report shows 358 over revs in range 4 and only 69 in range 3.
My logic is that you would hit range 3 prior to hitting range 4 so range 3 number should be higher or possibly equal to range 4.
Or or is my logic completely screwed up and I reading the report wrong.
THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE DME REPORT, it directs you to now focus on the transmission. Drive the car and note shifting/downshift smoothness under a variety of conditions. If you notice the slightest hesitation, notchiness, excessive takeup, clunking, etc then you've found something. Stock GT4 transmission is smooth and easy to shift. If you drive it and it is fine then perhaps negotiate price downwards mentioning DME report will cause diminished value upon you reselling it later.
These are robust cars and it could be fine but your re-sale will be diminished by that report.
Last edited by Perimeter; 08-21-2018 at 09:19 AM.
