Multiple error code at startup car runs fine Cayenne Turbo 2008
02-12-2017, 11:21 PM
#16
Dang, all the simple stuff seems OK. It is beginning to sound like it could be a bad ground or bad electrical connection, perhaps in a connector... somewhere. There are a lot of grounds and a lot of connectors. I'd start with the ground for the battery cable... just loosen the bolt a little, still tight enough to offer resistance when you wiggle the cable on the bolt to rough-up connecting surfaces, then retighten the bolt. I would unplug and re-plug all the connectors and fuses around the dash also... every connector you can find and get to.
03-05-2017, 09:55 PM
#17
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To all the folks who own cayenne's , do not automatically change battery ( $200) or alternator ( $1500) based on initial recommendations made here.
Well meaning advise here included that both might be the cause of my issue I however have found that my alternator is good and also my battery is strong. I'm still working this out... and hope to do so publicly in a way that will help other 2008 Porsche Cayenne Turbo owners.
See the thread above to understand about how to check each thing.
I drove the car after cutting and re-soldering and heat shrink wrapping all wires that had a joint both on driver and passenger sides...
Now I have managed to eliminate the Chassis and PSM errors, and my chassis height and PSM systems work as they should, however I still show CEL and Airbag error messages on the dash.
I'm still showing airbag and also CEL. when I dig into the details using Durametric, I show will come in my next post.
Well meaning advise here included that both might be the cause of my issue I however have found that my alternator is good and also my battery is strong. I'm still working this out... and hope to do so publicly in a way that will help other 2008 Porsche Cayenne Turbo owners.
See the thread above to understand about how to check each thing.
I drove the car after cutting and re-soldering and heat shrink wrapping all wires that had a joint both on driver and passenger sides...
Now I have managed to eliminate the Chassis and PSM errors, and my chassis height and PSM systems work as they should, however I still show CEL and Airbag error messages on the dash.
I'm still showing airbag and also CEL. when I dig into the details using Durametric, I show will come in my next post.
Last edited by AusTexCTT; 03-05-2017 at 10:46 PM.
03-06-2017, 08:32 PM
#18
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Just wanted to post and thank all of you who have given me ideas about things to look into my CTT.
I believe that the remaining errors may clear after some miles, will advise back one I can drive the car a bit.
I still have things basically torn apart and am leaving it that way to facilitate easier access to wiring for now, once I am sure things have been corrected, I have an interesting Idea for how I will wrap the two main wiring harness under the floor with Bicycle inner tubes that are are them glued up around the bundle or zip tied.
I did manage to clip one of the fiber optic lines running on the passenger side and was very concerned, I rigged up a fix by clipping both ends square, using 4 zip ties around a thin diameter heat shrink tubing. Sounds terrible but stereo is working at all four corners just fine so I'll call it a win. the alternative was to replace the entire line at what I can only assume is great cost from Porsche.
I have to admit, after going through this ordeal with the wiring, and know that I'll be due to replace alternator, water pump, and other parts soon, along with my concerns about the use of extremely cheap plastic connectors and components that will harden and crack in the coming use throughout the engine bay and elsewhere, I am considering very hard if I will keep the car much longer.
Its been down or undrivable 1.5 months out 4 months of ownership, and has stranded me twice in that time.
I'm not feeling very confident to take the family on a trip in this car, breaking down far from home where there is no Porsche dealership would be a really big issue, am considering getting something more reliable and with better parts and service availability. Really is too bad Porsche decided to cheap so badly on key parts on a 110k car.
I believe that the remaining errors may clear after some miles, will advise back one I can drive the car a bit.
I still have things basically torn apart and am leaving it that way to facilitate easier access to wiring for now, once I am sure things have been corrected, I have an interesting Idea for how I will wrap the two main wiring harness under the floor with Bicycle inner tubes that are are them glued up around the bundle or zip tied.
I did manage to clip one of the fiber optic lines running on the passenger side and was very concerned, I rigged up a fix by clipping both ends square, using 4 zip ties around a thin diameter heat shrink tubing. Sounds terrible but stereo is working at all four corners just fine so I'll call it a win. the alternative was to replace the entire line at what I can only assume is great cost from Porsche.
I have to admit, after going through this ordeal with the wiring, and know that I'll be due to replace alternator, water pump, and other parts soon, along with my concerns about the use of extremely cheap plastic connectors and components that will harden and crack in the coming use throughout the engine bay and elsewhere, I am considering very hard if I will keep the car much longer.
Its been down or undrivable 1.5 months out 4 months of ownership, and has stranded me twice in that time.
I'm not feeling very confident to take the family on a trip in this car, breaking down far from home where there is no Porsche dealership would be a really big issue, am considering getting something more reliable and with better parts and service availability. Really is too bad Porsche decided to cheap so badly on key parts on a 110k car.
03-06-2017, 08:49 PM
#20
Drifting
I did a write up of this last fall. My case, I had water coming in the drivers door wiring harness.
After soldering all the wires I started getting implausible codes on my coolant sensor. Also if I hook a durametric to the system and drive with the car, things start acting funky. So I may do the last of the 3 wires that are crimped. I re-did 2, but 1 looked fine so left it.
I question if there are other wires I somehow missed in the bundle.
https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...-flashing.html
After soldering all the wires I started getting implausible codes on my coolant sensor. Also if I hook a durametric to the system and drive with the car, things start acting funky. So I may do the last of the 3 wires that are crimped. I re-did 2, but 1 looked fine so left it.
I question if there are other wires I somehow missed in the bundle.
https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...-flashing.html
03-27-2017, 04:42 PM
#21
Drifting
Started getting PSM errors on the dash and limp mode. So I guess I missed something.
I have heard rumours of people say the corrosion went way back into the wire, would rather test for resistance than just randomly cut lengths of wire.
Any hard truth to this, i.e. it happened to you and you fixed it?
I have heard rumours of people say the corrosion went way back into the wire, would rather test for resistance than just randomly cut lengths of wire.
Any hard truth to this, i.e. it happened to you and you fixed it?
03-27-2017, 06:22 PM
#22
It would take a LONG time for corrosion to completely consume copper wire and change the resistance of the wire. With an insulation layer on the wire that is still in-tact (not allowing much oxygen inside the wire) you'd be looking at decades. Corrosion itself (inside a wire) does not raise resistance as long as some copper wire remains. The corrosion would have to dissolve nearly all the copper wire for you to measure a resistance change. Corrosion at a plug or other type of connector can raise resistance and interfere with high-frequency signals, but generally, unplugging and reconnecting "cleans" the surface enough to get a couple of years of use before the corrosion returns and affects the connection again. If the insulation on the wire is failing and is full of cracks, all bets are off, anything can happen if that's going on, including fire.
For crimping wire connections, NO cheap crimping tool EVER does the right job. I'm talking about the types of crimpers that work like common pliers with "fittings" to fit various pin sizes. The only thing those types of crimpers are good for is holding the wire to the pin long enough to solder the connection. There ARE crimping tools that WORK and will prevent having to solder connections... but they are more expensive. They have gear reduction in them to multiply the force you can exert with your hands on the handles of the "pliers-like" tool. That extra multiplication applies enough force to cold-weld the wire to the pin for a permanent connection that will never pull apart and will never need to be soldered. Cold welding is a real thing... but it takes a LOT of pressure to do it... more pressure than you can exert with a conventional crimping tool. In cold-welding, you squeeze the copper wire and the connector/pin so hard the 2 metals fuse on a molecular level, essentially becoming a single "piece" after the connector is attached.
For crimping wire connections, NO cheap crimping tool EVER does the right job. I'm talking about the types of crimpers that work like common pliers with "fittings" to fit various pin sizes. The only thing those types of crimpers are good for is holding the wire to the pin long enough to solder the connection. There ARE crimping tools that WORK and will prevent having to solder connections... but they are more expensive. They have gear reduction in them to multiply the force you can exert with your hands on the handles of the "pliers-like" tool. That extra multiplication applies enough force to cold-weld the wire to the pin for a permanent connection that will never pull apart and will never need to be soldered. Cold welding is a real thing... but it takes a LOT of pressure to do it... more pressure than you can exert with a conventional crimping tool. In cold-welding, you squeeze the copper wire and the connector/pin so hard the 2 metals fuse on a molecular level, essentially becoming a single "piece" after the connector is attached.
03-27-2017, 07:52 PM
#23
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Scoot - you should visit Harbor Freight. One of their "tools that work" - is a lever-drive ratcheting crimper, with good accurate jaws. Cost is a fraction of what a professional one costs - but does as good a job.
03-27-2017, 09:12 PM
#24
Drifting
Thanks, I see mentions of capillary action. In my case, the wire had disinegrated at the solder joint to green dust.
It would take a LONG time for corrosion to completely consume copper wire and change the resistance of the wire. With an insulation layer on the wire that is still in-tact (not allowing much oxygen inside the wire) you'd be looking at decades. Corrosion itself (inside a wire) does not raise resistance as long as some copper wire remains. The corrosion would have to dissolve nearly all the copper wire for you to measure a resistance change. Corrosion at a plug or other type of connector can raise resistance and interfere with high-frequency signals, but generally, unplugging and reconnecting "cleans" the surface enough to get a couple of years of use before the corrosion returns and affects the connection again. If the insulation on the wire is failing and is full of cracks, all bets are off, anything can happen if that's going on, including fire.
For crimping wire connections, NO cheap crimping tool EVER does the right job. I'm talking about the types of crimpers that work like common pliers with "fittings" to fit various pin sizes. The only thing those types of crimpers are good for is holding the wire to the pin long enough to solder the connection. There ARE crimping tools that WORK and will prevent having to solder connections... but they are more expensive. They have gear reduction in them to multiply the force you can exert with your hands on the handles of the "pliers-like" tool. That extra multiplication applies enough force to cold-weld the wire to the pin for a permanent connection that will never pull apart and will never need to be soldered. Cold welding is a real thing... but it takes a LOT of pressure to do it... more pressure than you can exert with a conventional crimping tool. In cold-welding, you squeeze the copper wire and the connector/pin so hard the 2 metals fuse on a molecular level, essentially becoming a single "piece" after the connector is attached.
For crimping wire connections, NO cheap crimping tool EVER does the right job. I'm talking about the types of crimpers that work like common pliers with "fittings" to fit various pin sizes. The only thing those types of crimpers are good for is holding the wire to the pin long enough to solder the connection. There ARE crimping tools that WORK and will prevent having to solder connections... but they are more expensive. They have gear reduction in them to multiply the force you can exert with your hands on the handles of the "pliers-like" tool. That extra multiplication applies enough force to cold-weld the wire to the pin for a permanent connection that will never pull apart and will never need to be soldered. Cold welding is a real thing... but it takes a LOT of pressure to do it... more pressure than you can exert with a conventional crimping tool. In cold-welding, you squeeze the copper wire and the connector/pin so hard the 2 metals fuse on a molecular level, essentially becoming a single "piece" after the connector is attached.
03-27-2017, 09:46 PM
#25
Yes, capilllary action is real, but if oxygen can't get through the insulation, corrosion is far far far slower... hence the exposed connection disintegrating... more than likely nothing is wrong with the rest of the wire... yet. It could become a problem in the future, but it will take a while. The safest fix would be to replace the entire harness, then "weatherproof" the connectors with "outdoor" electrical tape so moisture can't get into that connector again. But replacing that entire harness simply may not be practical depending on how it is routed, how many branches there are, etc.
03-27-2017, 10:30 PM
#26
Drifting
Yes, capillary action is real, but if oxygen can't get through the insulation, corrosion is far far far slower... hence the exposed connection disintegrating... more than likely nothing is wrong with the rest of the wire... yet. It could become a problem in the future, but it will take a while. The safest fix would be to replace the entire harness, then "weatherproof" the connectors with "outdoor" electrical tape so moisture can't get into that connector again. But replacing that entire harness simply may not be practical depending on how it is routed, how many branches there are, etc.
03-29-2017, 10:13 AM
#27
Drifting
I pulled the relay tapped it, tested, and seems ok (one under the seat) and then placed it back in. Going to replace it anyways as it seems to be one of those DME Relay type things the 993/944/968 issues had and they are cheap at $30.
Otherwise when the weather gets better I am pulling the carpet on the passenger side to look for splices.
Otherwise when the weather gets better I am pulling the carpet on the passenger side to look for splices.
06-13-2017, 05:16 AM
#29
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Car has run fine for 6 months, still showing Airbag and CEL
So I've been running the car for 6 months now, original issues never returned, so looks like I got the correct wires repaired, Duramentric shows DME, Airbag, and one other module as "not present", clearly they are as the car still runs and drives, so looking like I may need to reset my gateway(s) by pulling fuse 40 for 10 seconds.
Will try this tomorrow.
If that has no effect I plan to take out seats, and carpet and inspect the rest of the harness on both sides for any other splices and fix them then go from there.
Will try this tomorrow.
If that has no effect I plan to take out seats, and carpet and inspect the rest of the harness on both sides for any other splices and fix them then go from there.
06-20-2017, 09:06 AM
#30
Track Day
Hey AusTexCTT,
Have you checked the yellow connector under the driver's seat? I had the airbag light on dash and found a broken wire off the yellow connector under the seat. The connector sits low and must've got caught while moving the seat, ripping the wire off. I disconnected battery, soldered wire back on, then tie wrapped the connector higher up in the seat to gain more clearance. Started up car and the airbag light on dash went out. Problem solved.
Have you checked the yellow connector under the driver's seat? I had the airbag light on dash and found a broken wire off the yellow connector under the seat. The connector sits low and must've got caught while moving the seat, ripping the wire off. I disconnected battery, soldered wire back on, then tie wrapped the connector higher up in the seat to gain more clearance. Started up car and the airbag light on dash went out. Problem solved.