2002sheds

Happy New Year, All !
I have a decision to make, and would love some input. 1 Year ago, I purchased my first Porsche vehicle -- a 2008 V6 Cayenne that now has 106k miles. It has been great -- so great, that I am trying to figure out a way to "add to the stable"...
Recently, I came across a 2004 Cayenne S with about the same mileage for about half of what I can probably sell my car for. If I combine the money left over from buying the 2004 S AND sell a truck that I have, I would have just about enough money to buy a 911 Cabriolet from the late 90's/early 2000s.
My rationalization is this: Our 10 year old son will need a car to drive at some point, so I could provide the Cayenne as a safe vehicle for him, and make the 911 my daily driver. A few factors/considerations...

* I don't have enough cash to go big/expensive. Future college tuitions are taking care of that...
* I am semi-retired, and will put very few miles on any car that I drive (maybe 8-9k miles/year, and that could even be split between vehicles).
* I have read enough about the 2004 Cayennes to at least give me pause. Maybe I would be trading a (so far) very reliable vehicle for one fraught with issues -- although I would have the "luxury" of a second vehicle at my disposal.
* I would have time to "go through" the 911 before making it my daily driver.
* I was young and stupid (some would argue that I still am stupid:-) once, and am well aware of the risk of giving a 16 year old a car to drive that can be so easily wrapped around a tree, but hopefully our kid is learning to respect such a vehicle :lowdown: through his experience with the one we have -- and we would not transfer ownership for several years, if only to keep some leverage ;-)

Any feedback/perspective is welcomed. I want to get my ducks in a row before having this conversation with my wife...

Petza914

The IMS bearing in a 911 of that age will need to be replaced. That year range has the smaller dual-row IMS bearing which can come apart, taking out the engine. Factor in about $3,000 for this into your purchase price. Do your 996 research and make sure to have a thorough PPI done on any car you're going to purchase. Other than that, it sounds like a fine idea that has benefits for both of you and 996 prices are very low - you might even be able to step up to a base, early 997, which has the same IMS bearing issue, but is a much better looking car due to the headlight design, classic Coke-bottle shape body, and nicer interior, but the prices are probably $10-$15k higher..

2002sheds

Hi Petza,
Great points --thanks! I have been reading as much as I can about these early 996s, and thought that the smaller, dual, IMS bearings were less prone to failure...good to know that they also are an issue.
I totally agree on the headlights. I do not like them at all, but am willing to go that route (the 996) because of budget. I am too much of a rookie to know what you mean by "coke bottle body"...I will try to do more research.
Thanks for the feedback -- this is exactly what I am hoping for from this forum!

leftlane

A super cheap 911 can very well end up as the most expensive vehicle you will ever buy. I'd be very careful trying to get into a 996 at the lowest possible cost - the early years that are the lowest price might have a lot of deferred maintenance required that will bring you right up to a better car price point.

I have a 996TT and a Cayenne GTS so I support the idea wholeheartedly, but you have to be smart about it and have the cash set aside to take care of the inevitable issues that pop up.

Petza914

Coke bottle shape means the front and rear fenders flare out with the doors being skinnier, like a Coke bottle. The straighter sides of the 996 were not well received after the curvy body of the 993, so Porsche went back to the curves with the 997.

The small, dual row bearing in the early 996 cars is more robust than the later small row bearing from the late 996s and 2005 997, but that actually contributes to the problem. The problem with the dual row bearing is it can shed a lot of ferrous material before finally failing. With the factory oil filter setup that contains a bypass valve, it can allow these particles to circulate unfiltered. Bottom line is any car with a small bearing, whether single row or dual row, should be replaced.

2002sheds

Hi LeftLane, Petza,
Petza, I was so focused on the headlights that I completely missed the lack of curves on the body -- although that may explain my brief infatuation with the Cayman...
LeftLane, I completely agree -- there is no such thing as a super low priced Porsche. I have done plenty of wrenching already on my Cayenne, but that is not including anything near the engine or transmission. I would absolutely get a PPI on both vehicles.
Leftlane, what are your thoughts on the 2004 Cayenne S? Supposedly, this one has been trouble-free so far (108k miles), and the CarFax will bear it out. I have seen it, and the vehicle looked as if it has been well cared for. That being said, I have read many horror stories on Rennlist about how evil the early years are...and I am certain that I would have to replace the coolant pipes -- if the current owner has replaced them, I am very surprised, as it has not yet come up...
I guess my concern is that I might be moving away from a trouble free car and into a world of pain...potentially with both vehicles, and almost certainly with the 2004 Cayenne S. That is why I called this a dilemma ;-)
Happy New Year!

leftlane

I think it would be a downgrade for you to go backwards on the Cayenne, plus you trade a vehicle that you know everything about for one you know nothing about. I'd keep your current Cayenne and eventually scratch the 911 itch later, but I don't think I'd go with your original idea.

Also - think twice about having your son drive a Cayenne anyway - in my eyes it sends the wrong message, even if it is an older one. That, plus the insurance for a teenager, will probably make you change your mind anyway.

2002sheds

Hi Leftlane,
There is a lot of wisdom in keeping a known quantity versus taking this plunge...

I am unsure of the downgrade part if I am going to the S model. I guess I don't know how the cars improved/the differences over those years (from 2004 until 2008). Mine has a very nice ApplePlay stereo head that was put in by the previous owner, along with backup camera. It also has the roof rack and towing package. It sounds like I need to do more research about the other changes.

I am also unclear what you mean about having my son drive a Cayenne and the message it would be sending... we hosted a foreign exchange student last year, and the high school parking lot was a mixture of the crappy cars I used to see and newer BMWs, etc. There is no doubt that the insurance may be enough to scuttle this idea, but are you talking about the impression it gives -- that he is a spoiled brat, for example? Since he is an only child (and gets dropped off at school in a Porsche), this battle is already underway :-)

leftlane

I am definitely old school and think that kids need to aspire to things - and not drive a Porsche as their first car, regardless of which one. My kids' high school parking lot is full of nice cars too, and I think it sets kids up to be entitled little snots. When I see a 16 year old girl cruising around in a convertible BMW I tend to think she is spoiled and her parents aren't doing her any favors.

This is just me - although I can say that there is zero chance my wife would have let me get either of my daughters a premium car when they were starting out. Add to it that almost every kid will have some fender bender and it makes no sense to indulge them right off the bat.

If my kids ever gave me any attitude about what I drive versus what they drive, I would remind them that although I am doing pretty well, they are broke as hell.

2002sheds

Hi LeftLane,
I am very Old School as well, and agree with you. My wide is of the same mind (no friggin' way is this kid driving a Porsche as his first car). I think I am throwing in the possibility of him driving the Cayenne later as a way to rationalize getting another Porsche :-)

leftlane

I'm with ya there - rationalize away!

prosled8

Spend some time on the 996 forum if the Cayenne purchase is giving you pause for reliability concerns. Those are time bombs, every last one of them minus the turbos and GT3s that come with the better engine. It is way more than the IMS, they also have bore scoring like the Cayenne and chain tensioner failures. Rarely do you see them get much beyond 100k miles. I watched closely as I considered one. The Cayenne is risky, the 996 is crazy nuts risky IMO. Spend a month on that forum and count the cars that drop, it is almost weekly.

I bought a 2004 Cayenne S new. Great car, helped convince me to go with my current '08 CTT. Probably not a great car for a teenager but that is your call.

2002sheds

Hi Pro,
Great points. I am definitely getting nervous about the 996.

What would you say are the main differences between the 2004 and 2008 Cayennnes? I understand that one is an S and one a turbo...I am just wondering the other differences are beyond the change in taillights...is there a different motor? Mainly cosmetic changes?

Torre

I would avoid an a 955 S, if the money is tight. There are plenty more issues with those than a V6 957. From coolant pipes to cylinder scoring.

Marv

If spending money on repairs is something that makes you nervous, then any Porsche is going to give you anxiety.

Some will be worse than others, statistically speaking, but the worst can happen with any car.

The best thing to do is to buy a Porsche cash and have a slush fund in the bank for the unexpected.

Doing anything else just increases your odds of having a financial disaster that will sour your life.