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Oil threads are useless without data. And valid data means extended tests on the same sort of vehicle, engine and driver.
In this case I'll believe Porsche. I think they, or Mobil (at Porsche's request) have done the tests and found their oils are suitable for the vehicle. The German's are funny that way - they usually do actually test things before stamping them with a seal of approval. I'll take their tests over anecdotal evidence posted on an internet forum. Thinking an oil is "great!" without saying why is really rather useless.
I don't want to make an argument here but when it comes to Mobil One does anyone believe Porsche picked it because it was the best oil? It's a huge marketing contract for Mobil to join up with Porsche as well as other manufacturers.
We don't all hail Porsche's testing and engineering prowess when it comes to Plastic Coolant pipes? How about Driveline Center support bearings that last 50~80K when they last over double or triple that easily in most every other vehicle? How about the Cayenne S engines with the cylinder scoring? A good UOA will tell you all you need to know about an oil. A company like Blackstone that does thousands of these with a database of many other oils and engines to compare with is one of the best tools out there. In general I'll go with Porsche's oil weights but that's about as far as I'll take their recommendations.
I don't want to make an argument here but when it comes to Mobil One does anyone believe Porsche picked it because it was the best oil? It's a huge marketing contract for Mobil to join up with Porsche as well as other manufacturers. We don't all hail Porsche's testing and engineering prowess when it comes to Plastic Coolant pipes? How about Driveline Center support bearings that last 50~80K when they last over double or triple that easily in most every other vehicle? How about the Cayenne S engines with the cylinder scoring? A good UOA will tell you all you need to know about an oil. A company like Blackstone that does thousands of these with a database of many other oils and engines to compare with is one of the best tools out there. In general I'll go with Porsche's oil weights but that's about as far as I'll take their recommendations.
"On newer water-cooled Porsche engines where Mobil 1 0w40 is recommended, a simple change to an oil with CJ-4 rating or preferably an oil with SL or CI-4 rating as well as a viscosity of 5w40 rather than 0w40 are two changes that can be done in addition to more frequent oil changes to ensure longevity of newer engines. Granted most of these oils will not come with Porsche approval, so if your vehicle is under warranty, defer to the Porsche approval list and select a 5w40 viscosity where appropriate over that of a 0w40, regardless of API rating, as all will carry the most recent API ratings."
In reality ANY motor oil kept at the correct level will keep an engine running well over 25k miles without ever being changed. What I see a lot of posters forgetting is the chemical change of the "oil" with the addition of combustion by-products, moisture, enviromental contaminants and wear metals quality of the base stock becomes a moot point when its all the other crap that is corroding and damaging your internals. Posters that say oil quality will not overcome mechanical/clearance shortcomings are absolutely correct.
In the thorough testing and UOA I've dine in my 2 997s (one of which is a RUF supercharged car), multiple Mobil 1 5W-40 oils showed distinct breakdown of the additive package in them via TAN & TBN values as low as 4,000-5,000 miles and these were street miles only, no track. These Blackstone quantitative results were also qualitatively analyzed by Jake Raby (any of you 996 or 997 owners should know who he is) and Lake Speed of Driven Lubricants. Motul 8100 xcess 5W-40, which is Porsche A40 Approved was better, but I've since switched both those cars to Driven DT40. i'll use up my remaining Motul in my '09 CTTS and then likely change that one over as well to have fewer oils I have to maintain an inventory of, but based on my personal experience and personal UOA results, I believe that Porsche selecting Mobil had more to do with Marketing and monies paid to Porsche than Mobil being the best synthetic oil for their engines. in my opinion, running any oil beyond a 5,000 mile service intervalis not a good idea. I use a 4,000 mile interval on my 997s and a 5,000 mile interval on my Cayenne.
In the thorough testing and UOA I've dine in my 2 997s (one of which is a RUF supercharged car), multiple Mobil 1 5W-40 oils showed distinct breakdown of the additive package in them via TAN & TBN values as low as 4,000-5,000 miles and these were street miles only, no track. These Blackstone quantitative results were also qualitatively analyzed by Jake Raby (any of you 996 or 997 owners should know who he is) and Lake Speed of Driven Lubricants. Motul 8100 xcess 5W-40, which is Porsche A40 Approved was better, but I've since switched both those cars to Driven DT40. i'll use up my remaining Motul in my '09 CTTS and then likely change that one over as well to have fewer oils I have to maintain an inventory of, but based on my personal experience and personal UOA results, I believe that Porsche selecting Mobil had more to do with Marketing and monies paid to Porsche than Mobil being the best synthetic oil for their engines. in my opinion, running any oil beyond a 5,000 mile service intervalis not a good idea. I use a 4,000 mile interval on my 997s and a 5,000 mile interval on my Cayenne.
Me too. When changing from Mobil 1 to one of the DT (40 or 50) Driven products, you have to do an engine flush with a Driven BR product (30 or 40), which are their petroleum based Break In oils. It's an oil and filter change with the BR for 100-200 miles, then an oil and filter change refilling with the DT. The reason for this is that it's been shown that the anti-wear additive package in the Mobil 1 oil doesn't play well together with that in the Driven DT oil. I'm about 1,400 miles out from the next oil change on both 997s, which I do at 4,000 miles, so that means probably 4-6 weeks on my wife's and 8-10 weeks on mine (supercharged car).
I'm expecting to see improvement in the UOA at this first change, but actually better and more representative results at the next one, but that's a ways out.
Just moved a few months back and my house and shop are a mess but I have an old Mobil One Ow-40 UOA and a follow on Redline 5w-40 UOA which had most metals (Iron, Tin, Copper) were about half from the previous Mobil One Oil change. I'll post them when I get around to finding them and un-packing everything. The first Mobil One change was done around 55K to 61K (approx 6K on the oil) and the Redline was just after at around 61K to 68K (approx 7K on the oil). I purposely ran the Redline an extra 1K just to see how it would compare to the Mobil One. With only a few thousand miles more on the Cayenne with the Redline at the start compared to the Mobil One I don't think the Cayenne engine would be wearing anymore.
In the thorough testing and UOA I've dine in my 2 997s (one of which is a RUF supercharged car), multiple Mobil 1 5W-40 oils showed distinct breakdown of the additive package in them via TAN & TBN values as low as 4,000-5,000 miles and these were street miles only, no track. These Blackstone quantitative results were also qualitatively analyzed by Jake Raby (any of you 996 or 997 owners should know who he is) and Lake Speed of Driven Lubricants. Motul 8100 xcess 5W-40, which is Porsche A40 Approved was better, but I've since switched both those cars to Driven DT40. i'll use up my remaining Motul in my '09 CTTS and then likely change that one over as well to have fewer oils I have to maintain an inventory of, but based on my personal experience and personal UOA results, I believe that Porsche selecting Mobil had more to do with Marketing and monies paid to Porsche than Mobil being the best synthetic oil for their engines. in my opinion, running any oil beyond a 5,000 mile service intervalis not a good idea. I use a 4,000 mile interval on my 997s and a 5,000 mile interval on my Cayenne.
Some very good observations/thoughts here....
Though I am not sure I understand why Driven thinks you need to flush the engine with their break in oils, other than to sell more oil...
Without further ado, I just received back the most recent UOA from Blackstone on my wife's '05 997 C2S (attached PDF in addition to the pic in case it's too small) and thought you guys might find it interesting how much better the Joe Gibbs Driven DT40 is holding up in this 997 motor compared to the A40 approved Motul 8100 xcess. It's viscosity at 4,000 miles is better than the Motul even when the Motul was changed at a 3,600 mile interval, and the Phosphorous & Zinc levels, which are critical to the life of these motors, are the highest compared to any of the Motul samples.
I'm now very interested to see the #s from my supercharged 997 that will come due for it's first DT40 analysis in a few months as this is the car that initially exposed the shear issues with the M1 and had me shorten the change interval with the Motul from 5,000 to 4,000 miles.
Based on these #s, I'll be going back to a 5,000 mile change interval to see what the #s look like there.
The guys at Blackstone are often asked "which oil should I use?" and their responds? (See below, from their Information/FAQ). Personally I use a Porsche-approved oil in the viscosity recommended for my temperatures, and I change it more often than recommended. It looks and smells good going in, and looks and smells bad coming out. What's the best oil to use?
Ah, the million dollar question. We are an independent lab, so we don't make recommendations. It has been our experience that oil is oil, and either petroleum or synthetic-based oil will work well for just about any engine.
Come on, you're holding out on me. I should use synthetic, right?
Buddy, you should use whatever you want. Synthetic oil won't guarantee a longer engine life any more than my eating organic food will guarantee I'll live until I'm 90. We here at Blackstone generally use regular petroleum-based oil because honestly, it works just as well for us.
11-11-2016, 05:03 PM
