Why Bother ???
03-05-2002, 09:42 AM
#16
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Don you wrote:..
"1. First and foremost Porsche must remain independent. Can you imagine the uproar if they WERE bought out."
Who cares?
Who cares if they were bought out?
Don, tell me what difference would it make?
Look at Ferrari.
Period.
End of argument.
"1. First and foremost Porsche must remain independent. Can you imagine the uproar if they WERE bought out."
Who cares?
Who cares if they were bought out?
Don, tell me what difference would it make?
Look at Ferrari.
Period.
End of argument.
03-05-2002, 09:49 AM
#17
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996 cab,
How long would you think the line up would be for a $50,000 Ferrari, or a $40,000 Ferrari, what about $30,000?
Can you figure it out yet, or do I have to spell it out further?
We are not saying that the SUV will be unsuccesful, Porsche will probably sell all the SUV's they make, but that doesn't mean the company is better off in the long run. Short term, yeah they may have more sales, more profits - no doubt - but if they don't get back into racing, the very reason they are able to sell an SUV badged as a Porsche will no longer exist - they dropped out of Lemans for F sakes?...
Am I the only one that sees this?
Guys the well will run dry if it isnt replenished.
How long would you think the line up would be for a $50,000 Ferrari, or a $40,000 Ferrari, what about $30,000?
Can you figure it out yet, or do I have to spell it out further?
We are not saying that the SUV will be unsuccesful, Porsche will probably sell all the SUV's they make, but that doesn't mean the company is better off in the long run. Short term, yeah they may have more sales, more profits - no doubt - but if they don't get back into racing, the very reason they are able to sell an SUV badged as a Porsche will no longer exist - they dropped out of Lemans for F sakes?...
Am I the only one that sees this?
Guys the well will run dry if it isnt replenished.
03-05-2002, 11:32 AM
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roschpe,
I am trying hard to see your point however having looked at all probable reasons and eliminated possible answers I am still stumped!
So you now do not object to a Porsche SUV so long as PAG brings out a BIG BHP car. Ok, I now know where you are coming from.
Just a word of advise, KISS – Keep It Simple St***d!
I am trying hard to see your point however having looked at all probable reasons and eliminated possible answers I am still stumped!
So you now do not object to a Porsche SUV so long as PAG brings out a BIG BHP car. Ok, I now know where you are coming from.
Just a word of advise, KISS – Keep It Simple St***d!
03-05-2002, 12:04 PM
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bloke,
to answer your question, I have an order for the Turbo version that I am expecting in Q1 '03.
I was amongst the first owners of the Boxster 2.5ltr in the UK back in 1997/8 - no medal awards pls just clap, thank you.
A 996 was a natural progression.
We as a family have a Mercs A-Class and the C2 Cab. A Cayenne would be a natural progression from the A-Class for us.
We had considered ML, Freelander, X5 and Jeep however we felt the relationship and service delivery at the Porsche dealership was ahead by miles – my take on cars are simple, IF the total package (dealer relationship, reliability, image, practicality, range, resale value etc) is amongst the best, I would always keep to the brand. The engineering is just superb - only a minority quibble, but then you cannot please EVERYONE.
to answer your question, I have an order for the Turbo version that I am expecting in Q1 '03.
I was amongst the first owners of the Boxster 2.5ltr in the UK back in 1997/8 - no medal awards pls just clap, thank you.
A 996 was a natural progression.
We as a family have a Mercs A-Class and the C2 Cab. A Cayenne would be a natural progression from the A-Class for us.
We had considered ML, Freelander, X5 and Jeep however we felt the relationship and service delivery at the Porsche dealership was ahead by miles – my take on cars are simple, IF the total package (dealer relationship, reliability, image, practicality, range, resale value etc) is amongst the best, I would always keep to the brand. The engineering is just superb - only a minority quibble, but then you cannot please EVERYONE.
03-05-2002, 12:39 PM
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If Porsche put out a street legal 850hp car then Roschpe (the coward) would be happy. He wouldn't buy it, no no no no, he can't afford it, BUT he would sleep safe in the knowledge that Porsche is building a car for which there might be 250 buyers. He then figures these 250 buyers will keep Porsche's future safe.
Now he cries, "Look at Ferrari". I think we all know that this fool would be the first person howling if Porsche got bought out. He'd howl even louder if the Cayenne was at fault.
Roschpe(the coward) simply wants Porsche to return to racing (a reasonable request) and produce an 850hp street legal car which he won't buy and cannot afford anyway. When Porsche does this, he'll be pleased, he'll rain his approval down upon Porsche for heeding his wisdom. He won't buy anything mind you. He won't contribute to Porsche's bottom line. His dad with the 80's Benz's MIGHT do that, but alas, Roschpe will approve. Cause after all, he reads all these big marketing books and knows where to find more in all the local libraries.
K
Now he cries, "Look at Ferrari". I think we all know that this fool would be the first person howling if Porsche got bought out. He'd howl even louder if the Cayenne was at fault.
Roschpe(the coward) simply wants Porsche to return to racing (a reasonable request) and produce an 850hp street legal car which he won't buy and cannot afford anyway. When Porsche does this, he'll be pleased, he'll rain his approval down upon Porsche for heeding his wisdom. He won't buy anything mind you. He won't contribute to Porsche's bottom line. His dad with the 80's Benz's MIGHT do that, but alas, Roschpe will approve. Cause after all, he reads all these big marketing books and knows where to find more in all the local libraries.
K
03-05-2002, 01:31 PM
#23
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You guys just need to face the fact that Porsche has (and continues to) change! I mean they have started to mass produce their cars more than ever before. This is evidenced by the sharing of a lot of components between the Boxter and the 996. Porsche simply can't afford to buid cars like they used to (slow production with major attention to detail)! That is why they nearly went under in the early to mid 90s.
I have zero doubts that Porsche will extend its sales with this new SUV. Would I buy one, well no. But I wouldn't buy a new Boxter or 996 either.
Porsche's buyers have also changed. There are less and less "enthusiasts" buying these cars, and more first timers coming in. Remember, Porsche started life as a builder of moderately priced, no frills high performance cars. Their new lineup is aimed at a different market.......those who like the image of a Porsche. Let's face it, your dollar today buys a lot more Porsche than it did just 10 years ago, thus they have broadened their customer base with the Boxter, and the new SUV will do the same.
Porsche will continue to be very profitable with their lineup. The problem is that most of you don't like their new developments.
I also believe the rear-engined design will eventually go away in favor of larger displacement front mounted engines. Funny how things change, isn't it.
I have zero doubts that Porsche will extend its sales with this new SUV. Would I buy one, well no. But I wouldn't buy a new Boxter or 996 either.
Porsche's buyers have also changed. There are less and less "enthusiasts" buying these cars, and more first timers coming in. Remember, Porsche started life as a builder of moderately priced, no frills high performance cars. Their new lineup is aimed at a different market.......those who like the image of a Porsche. Let's face it, your dollar today buys a lot more Porsche than it did just 10 years ago, thus they have broadened their customer base with the Boxter, and the new SUV will do the same.
Porsche will continue to be very profitable with their lineup. The problem is that most of you don't like their new developments.
I also believe the rear-engined design will eventually go away in favor of larger displacement front mounted engines. Funny how things change, isn't it.
03-05-2002, 01:31 PM
#24
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Answer to Roschpe re Porsche independence. This is just a personal thing with me. I owned a small ($13 million/year) manufacturing business in Seattle. My competitors were all large conglomerates. We did quite well because we were fiercly independent and our customers appreciated what we were able to do for them. Prior to that I worked for two of these large companies as a Division Manager. Customer always came last in these large companies. Fiat (at least their automotive division) is losing money, and of course Ferrari literally bleeds them to death with their costs; Jaguar is a Ford now, etc.,etc. If Volkswagen bought Porsche and put them in their model lineup I would look for another independent marque....but that's just me.
Fiat is smart not to interfere with Ferrari (at least as far as the public is concerned), but the real reason they produce so few cars each year is because they lose so much money per unit.
Having been a business owner I've also learned to respect other people's opinions because one can't actually change another's feelings. Porsche had to do something...broaden their product line or sell the company....and that may be where the differing opinions begin. But, you must admit they had to do something, and a low end sports car that was talked about for some time would not provide the revenue stream. If Porsche sold the company, it would not turn out like a Fiat/Ferrri relationship, it would be more like a Ford/Jaguar relationship. Then Porsches would be manufactured on modified T'bird/Lincoln LS platform. No thanks! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
Fiat is smart not to interfere with Ferrari (at least as far as the public is concerned), but the real reason they produce so few cars each year is because they lose so much money per unit.
Having been a business owner I've also learned to respect other people's opinions because one can't actually change another's feelings. Porsche had to do something...broaden their product line or sell the company....and that may be where the differing opinions begin. But, you must admit they had to do something, and a low end sports car that was talked about for some time would not provide the revenue stream. If Porsche sold the company, it would not turn out like a Fiat/Ferrri relationship, it would be more like a Ford/Jaguar relationship. Then Porsches would be manufactured on modified T'bird/Lincoln LS platform. No thanks! <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />
03-05-2002, 02:25 PM
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well said Don.
I also run a small business and in these tough times I note the number of my competition begging to be 'bought' by bigger companies.
Big businesses are ONLY INTERESTED IN ONE THING - P R O F I T S by the bucket loads. To achieve their aims they cut cost or lower their quality. FIAT, BMW, AUDI and FORD buy independent sports cars because it is cheaper than build a brand to rival the aforementioned marquee.
If PAG gets the same success from the SUV market as it did when it entered the over-populated 2-seater sports car market with the Boxster, then the next generation 911s should be truly the defining model – faster, lighter, economical and ultimately a racer.
I would also like to see a true 4-seater GT from Porsche like the Fez 456 – niche but needed to bolster bottom line profits. The V8 from the Cayenne would be ideal for such a car.
So in the ideal world Porsche could have the following line-up;
1) 2-seater mid-engine roadster – V6 & Turbo from $30k
2) SUV – V6, V8 & V10 from $40k
3) 4-seater front engine – V6, V8 & V10 from $50k
4) 911 rear-engine 2+2 racer – spec to order from $75k
5) The Carrera GT 2-seater super car – V10 $P.O.A
Am I only on the above?
I also run a small business and in these tough times I note the number of my competition begging to be 'bought' by bigger companies.
Big businesses are ONLY INTERESTED IN ONE THING - P R O F I T S by the bucket loads. To achieve their aims they cut cost or lower their quality. FIAT, BMW, AUDI and FORD buy independent sports cars because it is cheaper than build a brand to rival the aforementioned marquee.
If PAG gets the same success from the SUV market as it did when it entered the over-populated 2-seater sports car market with the Boxster, then the next generation 911s should be truly the defining model – faster, lighter, economical and ultimately a racer.
I would also like to see a true 4-seater GT from Porsche like the Fez 456 – niche but needed to bolster bottom line profits. The V8 from the Cayenne would be ideal for such a car.
So in the ideal world Porsche could have the following line-up;
1) 2-seater mid-engine roadster – V6 & Turbo from $30k
2) SUV – V6, V8 & V10 from $40k
3) 4-seater front engine – V6, V8 & V10 from $50k
4) 911 rear-engine 2+2 racer – spec to order from $75k
5) The Carrera GT 2-seater super car – V10 $P.O.A
Am I only on the above?
03-05-2002, 03:10 PM
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Well put..you probably have hit the nail on the head as far as Porsche's ultimate lineup. Don't kow what they have planned for racing program after they swallow the Cayenne startup, but I'm sure we'll all be impressed. Porsche still likes to win. Great namebrand advertising. Racing gives you more TV and print coverage per unit of time or unit of print than any other venue. IMHO their turbo SUV platform could be modified to produce one h**l of a 4 passenger GT type vehicle.
Porsche's independent future is a no-brainer for the folks who can think in more than one dimension! <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> even more!
Well put..you probably have hit the nail on the head as far as Porsche's ultimate lineup. Don't kow what they have planned for racing program after they swallow the Cayenne startup, but I'm sure we'll all be impressed. Porsche still likes to win. Great namebrand advertising. Racing gives you more TV and print coverage per unit of time or unit of print than any other venue. IMHO their turbo SUV platform could be modified to produce one h**l of a 4 passenger GT type vehicle.
Porsche's independent future is a no-brainer for the folks who can think in more than one dimension! <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> even more!
03-18-2002, 10:24 AM
#28
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Here in Britain the Cayenne will be bought as a car for the poser wife to take the kids to school, the only time it will go off road will be when it goes up the kerb.
Come on how many real rear engined Porsche enthusiasts will buy one.
The natural family car choice for a Porsche driver is a Merc E55 AMG estate or an Audi RS6 avant.
And........a 4X4 thats good on the track? why bother!!!
I don't have problem with Porsche building the Cayenne, but why don't they also concentrate at what they do best like manufacturing a good sensibly priced enthusiasts car like the old 1993 968 Club Sport.
What we could do with is a Boxster 3.2 RS lightweight.
1100 kgs max
260 bhp
No power steering
Lightweight Recaros
Manual hood
Manual locking and windows
Sports suspension
Bigger brakes
Limited slip diff
17" magnesium wheels
Priced at £35,000 maximum.
I would have one in my garage!!!!
Come on how many real rear engined Porsche enthusiasts will buy one.
The natural family car choice for a Porsche driver is a Merc E55 AMG estate or an Audi RS6 avant.
And........a 4X4 thats good on the track? why bother!!!
I don't have problem with Porsche building the Cayenne, but why don't they also concentrate at what they do best like manufacturing a good sensibly priced enthusiasts car like the old 1993 968 Club Sport.
What we could do with is a Boxster 3.2 RS lightweight.
1100 kgs max
260 bhp
No power steering
Lightweight Recaros
Manual hood
Manual locking and windows
Sports suspension
Bigger brakes
Limited slip diff
17" magnesium wheels
Priced at £35,000 maximum.
I would have one in my garage!!!!
03-18-2002, 11:07 AM
#29
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LOL yeah George, unlike all the Boxsters, and 996's built that all end up on the track...oh wait, wait a minute...no, plenty of posers driving those around town at 30mph too.
K
K
03-18-2002, 06:00 PM
#30
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Yeah those Porsche designers don't know what they're doing eh? At $1100 per share they're really a stupid company...they should be listening to a bunch of wahoos on a bulletin board, and in a web article, about how to develop their vehicles and what vehicles to develop.
Laughing hysterically...