JoeRJGR

Howdy guys,

I have a 944 N/A track car which I am just finishing up putting coilovers on. The car had a "track alignment" from my last mechnic who has since changed shops. The only thing I remeber is that he "toed it out" as much as he could. Thing handled great.

This car will only be used at the track. Any suggestions on the proper settings for a 4 wheel track alignment?

Car is an 84 N/A....

Thanks for eveyone's input..

timo944

Joe:

It depends on three things:

1. Is this alignment for track only?
2. What rate springs do you have?
3. What kind of tires?

I use the following for a track car with 400# springs, hoosier tires:

Body level at 5" from rocker panel to ground, front and back
Front alignment: Caster 2.0 deg (stock setting)
Camber - 2.5 to -3.0 deg
Toe 1/8" out (not too much more or you will wear tires faster)

rear alignment: Camber -1.5 deg
Toe 1/8" in

These are pretty normal settings. With street tires you shoudl be OK, with stock suspension you should be OK too. The ride height is a big deal, not so much the 5" measurement, but that it's level front to back. Helps under breaking, and getting the car to rotate.

Have fun!

timo

JoeRJGR

Timo-

Thanks for the input. The car is track only and I run 400 lb springs up front...500 in the rear. I am putting coilovers all the way around and thus can do any ride height...

Tires will be Hoosiers or Kumho Victoracers

timo944

Joe,

The alignment number will work well, but:

- with Hoosiers (R3S04) you may want more camber in the front. I actually run 3 to 3.5 in the front and 2.5 in the rear (depending on the track). Any more than three degrees and you start to lose traction in the early part of the turn.

Kuhmo's - The V710 I do not know - ask Tire Rack for advice on camber. For victor racers I understand they like less camber - maybe 2-2.5 in front and 1-1.5 in back.

Get the ride height correct, it pays off, but more importantly, corner balance the car. this is expensive because it is time consuming, but with coil overs all around it's not too bad a job. You probably want 50.0% cross weight ((RF+LR)/(LF+RR)). Don't get the car too low or you will get bump steer.

Then do alignment per above.

Remember - do the car as it will be driven, with the weight of the driver (and passenger) in the seat(s).

Timo

JoeRJGR

Timo,

Thanks for the info...much appreciatted. How low would you go with the car? To keep in SCCA ITS the car needs to be now lower than 5". Not sure with PCA says....

timo944

A lower ride height (and center of gravity) is always good to a point, but I have had problems going too low, mainly banging the sway bars and oil pan on the curbing. I don't like the SCCA rule, and would prefer to have the car at 4-1/2 to 4-3/4" ride height, but I have beat that problem in an way by using two sets of wheels:

- I use 225/50/15 tires on 7x15 rims for SCCA. My ride height is 5" on the button.
- I use 225/45/15 on 8x15 for PCA which lowers the car another 1/4".

You could use 7x16's for SCCA (and PCA) but they are more expensive.

BTW there is no ride height rule for PCA.

timo

C5Driver951

Not to highjack your thread, but Timo where did you get 15x8 wheels? Is your car an early or late 944?

I have an 89 944cup car in training and cannot find 15x8s for my offset... So, I am running 225/45s on 15x7 phonedials.

I also have kept my ride height somewhat higher to avoid bumpsteer issues.

JoeRJGR

Timmo,

You're a wealth of info on 944 race inof. Thnaks a lot.

One more question for you....Are you running coliovers? If so...what did you do with the TB's???

I find keeping them in ridiculous, but technically you have to. Have you ever had either SCCA or PCA check? How could they? They can't remove the cap...at least not on an early car.. spring plate and everything els ehas to come out....got no idea on later cars.

Way's I have heard they confirm bars are in...

1. Drill a hole in the T/B tube and tap a pencil against the bar.
2. Remove the shocks and see if the car can support its weight.

The whole issue stinbks....I mean I don't see the point. Both series allow colovers so why insist you keep the TB's? Plus..they are so blinkin heavy....

It hacks me off because I'll end up putiing them back in and I know 50% cars out tere don't have them..

Thanks again!

C5Driver951

944 cannot have coilovers in SCCA competition. At least not in ITS.

timo944

Yep Joel - you are absolutely right - can't use springs in the rear on a 944in SCCA. I use torsion bars only, and it doesn't bother me. Once the ride height it set you're OK. Just play with the front to get the corner balance set up.

While I think of it - make sure that when you reset the torsion bars, the ride height adjustment is not too far to one end of the range. I have a friend with this and we think it is severly limiting camber (the spring plate is angled up, so the spring plate and torsion bar plate make a V). Also make sure your rear suspension is well seated in the body to maximize camber adjustment.

15x8's - ha ha good question. I have an '88 944, but it has an '86 suspension. I wrecked old yeller (the '86) last year and wanted to save time building a new car, so I just moved all of the suspension components over to the '88 chassis I found. The '86 has narrower track, so I can fit the standard 911 Fuchs on the car on all 4 corners. This is the ultimate set-up for me - I love it.

happy trails!

timo

Orjan

I don't know whether they are comparable, but here's our settings from our recent complete alignment. Car is -87 NA with coilovers in front, #300 hypercoils, yellow koni double adjustable, 968 M030 30mm hollow swaybar, 25.5mm t-bars in rear with 968 M030 koni with helper spring, 19mm 968 M030 swaybar.
We have:
Front: Camber: 3.5 deg, toe-in 0.11 deg, caster: max.. about 3.5 deg.
Rear: Camber 4 deg, toe in 4 deg(!!)

Rather aggressive settings indeed, and I was worried about tire wear, but our Toyo R1Rs are not hurting from the rear toe or camber. Had the car to Mantorp Park, Sweden (3.1Km, quite open track) last week and it stuck like glue (or at least as good as it can get with our class limitations of 205/55-16 tires).
The car has a slight understeer, probably due to the softer rear suspension.
Our AX-22 logger recorded 1.44 lateral G, and I think that's decent for non-slicks "just" 205 wide.

We are by no means done with suspension setup, but I think the worst enemy in alignment is to have inconsistent and/or unknown angles. Our angles didn't look all bad separately, but when comparing angles (especially toe) back to front, we had some serious errors.

Good luck!

/Ørjan

M758

On my 944-spec car I run 350lbs fronts, 30 mm t-bars. (Rules limit me to 30 mm rear bars)

Ride height is 4" or so (level front to rear) and about as low as you can get a 944 unless you relocate the suspension.

Front 3.5 deg negative, toe 0 to 1/32rd of tow out

Rear 2.5 deg negative with 3/16 toe in.. I am running a mix of stock rubber and ploy rear bushigns. Run all steel and you run less rear toe in.

Car wear down 225/50 R15 toyo RA-1 at fair pace (40 heat cycles) and wear is even across the face of the tires and among all 4 tires. Car is 2620 lbs with driver and ballast and one of the fastest in the spec class.