Antigravity

Hi all,

We, recently signed on as a sponsor for Rennlist a few months ago.... we are Antigravity Batteries, all we do is lithium ion batteries vor Powersports/Motorsport and related products such as our MICRO-START mini jump-starters. I have been answering questions on Rennlist for a few months on the GT3 side of the forum, but wanted to start a thread on the Performance Mod side of things since this is a modification that is done in many Performance/Race Cars.

My intention is not to blast about Antigravity Batteries but rather just have a thread for all questions related to Lithium Batteries, the potential issues and benefits and general questions anyone might have. There's a lot of misinformation about lithium batteries out there, and when I post here I will be telling the facts about lithium batteries and the best uses for them and what you should consider when considering a lithium battery. And I will not be trying to overhyped them but I will be explaining the facts and being blunt about what is offered by not only Antigravity and the other brands. Though we are on here as a Vendor and I am selling product, my main intention will be to educate those who are interested so you will be able to make well-informed decision from what I say about them.

To tell a little bit about my company Antigravity Batteries I'm the owner and President, Scott S. We have been around since 2010. We started making LIthium-Ion for Motorcylces and Powersport Vehicles early on and became quite successful in the arena. We then went on to develop a ground breaking product called the MICRO-START, it was the FIRST mini-jump starter. You have probably seen this type of device, there are tons of brands now.... but we were actually the creator of that channel in 2013. Consumer Reports rated our XP-10 model as the #1 Rated Jump-Starter. And about two years ago we introduced our first Automotive Specific Lithium-Ion battery... the RS-20... which has recently been updated to the RS-30 model , which is the game changer for those looking at Lithium-Ion Batteries for their Cars. I will get into that in another thread.

We traditionally have been more on the OFF-ROAD side of things with our Batteries... we do alot of Baja Racing and are in a lot of Trophy Trucks in the Lucas Oil Series type stuff. But we do alot of the Global Time Attack and other racing. We also do alot of bike stuff from World Superbike to Supercross/MX, GNCC and Nitro Boats and more. My point here is, you might not have heard of us... but we are one of the leaders in this segment. We are pretty much developing the most advanced Lithium-Ion Starter Batteries available... This year we now going to push directly toward the Automotive market because it is dramtically underserved and the products are NOT all that great... though a couple companies DO make a good battery.

We have a complete line of Lithium-Ion Starter Battery products that can be in applications from World-Class Racing to Daily Driving. So if you have any questions about any brand, or our brand, the benefits of lithium, what is required to maintain them properly, how small of a battery you can use, the weight saving or anything, please feel free to ask.

I am going to post this video about our latest battery that has just set the technological bar for Lithium Batteries... but we have batteries from 3 pounds to 5 pounds that will rip start any of the Porsche Race/Track Vehicles up to 800 Horsepower with ease. Or our more street oriented RS-30 and everything in-between.

Our website is here ANTIGRAVITY BATTERIES
,

GVA-SFO

Antigravity

Appreciate your response, thanks. Was surprised no one really inquired. We have a thread on the GT3 forum and it is 24 pages. But I think this area must not be visited as much. Just trying to get out the information and answer any questions anyone might have an interest in Lithium Batteries pros and cons.

ClubsportSP

Brian Himmelman

Antigravity

Hi Clubsport, what were you looking to possibly put the RS-30 into? The battery should work great for just about any application, what may vary is how long it can sit before it goes in to sleep mode if there is any parasitic draw that exists but the beauty of the battery is that it was designed to be used in old and new daily drivers and has the battery management system to protect itself. One thing you may have to delve into a little is the mount. Depending on the existing stock battery size the battery tray adapter could easily still work but getting the information and sizing would be a good first step.
Hi Brian, great thing about this battery is you really shouldn't have to do anything. One great advantage Lithium has over lead/acid is that it has a much slower natural discharge rate, almost non-existent in comparison. So the simple answer is you really shouldn't have to do anything and will be able to pop it right in when the GT3 arrives in December.

Thank you guys and please let us know if you have any other questions at all.

ClubsportSP

Antigravity

The alternator will only put out standard voltage in a 12v system so you should have no issues there as far as the battery coping. In other words the charging system on a car is only going to put out what the battery needs providing the charging system is working correctly. The only way we would recommend the ATX20-RS would be if the car was "track use only". It has so much smaller of a capacity in comparison to the RS-30 and while the newer Porsche's have pretty good energy management there's a good chance an older one will have a higher parasitic drain you'd have to deal with. When you look at the capacity rating the RS-30 is an actual 30AH while the ATX20-RS is 30AH PbEq which is significantly lower in real time. The Re-Start batteries like the ATX20-RS are really designed for performance use only and the RS-30 is designed specifically for a daily use vehicle in regards to automobiles. Hopefully that helps but please let us know if you have any other questions. You can also email chad@antigravitybatteries.com directly as well.

kouzman

Question:
i am considering the rs-30 for my 991.1 turbo s. The car has standard electronics with two additions. A built in escort radar which starts as soon as I turn the the on and a 2 channel blavkvue dash cam. For the camera I am considering their factory accessory battery pack that runs the battery when the car is turned off and only charges when the car is running. I live in NYC and the car usually spends the winter in a non heated garage.

What should I expect from such an install of the rs-30 and what are the caveats and recommendations under the scenario above? Due to the simplicity of the install I would even consider removing the small battery and installing the factory one during the winter.
​​​​​​And on the factory battery, how do you ensure that it stays charged when not used? Can I keep it on a trickle charger off the car?

Weight savings are impressive and since I track the car, even autocross 40 pounds will make a huge difference. I already removed about 30 pounds with an inconel echaust and I am looking to get a lighter set of wheels.

Antigravity

Hi Kouzman,

I've had the almost EXACT similar situation from a 991.1 Turbo owner in Florida who does Daily Driving and half mile racing... It was one of the few times we have heard of some flags coming up after installing our RS-30. As it turned out he had a Camera and a Radar Detector also.
Long story short was there was some conflict the Camera was having overall that made some flags come up during driving.... so he installed a proprietary camera battery as you are talking about, and all of a sudden no more flags. He also had a Radar Detector but the Camera seemed to be the issue. So those Camera Batteries designed for the Car that power the Camera are something we now tell anybody with a Camera to look into. They actually effect the stop start systems voltage readings... not always but since we saw this happen we bring it up with people who have cameras. It might have also been how he installed the Camera on the car. All I know it all was fine after he put in the Camera back up battery.

With the RS-30 the caveats are that you do only get 30Ah which is less Amp Hour Capacity than the Lead Battery. Though it has way more cranking power. But I will point out that in all the 991s we have multiple statement of I haven't driven for 8 weeks and it started fine. On my personal GT3 RS I have had a stint of 7 weeks without starting the car, and I was leaving the hood open as well as opening the doors every few days to trigger the systems interior lighting.... but honestly the Cars Battery energy management system turns off the Parasitic drains so well that I'm not worried about this aspect anymore. So we expect a MINIMUM of 6-8 weeks of sitting without needing to be on a maintainer in the 991s provided you don't have other electronics like USB Chargers or your Bluetooth actively connected, or your Camera. I'm talking the stock cars without added accessories because that is the cars we are testing in and got feed back from. So our objective was meant to have the battery sit a minimum of 6 weeks... if you intend to leave it longer than that you can put it on a lithium specific Maintainer. And yes you can put your Car battery on the maintainer on the floor, but keep in mind you do NOT want to do this in an enclosed space for long periods of time because LEAD/ACID batteries release Hydrogen Gas while charging, very explosive... so while its not a lot I just want to warn you. It's just best to charge it... take if off and repeat. Lithium does not have this issue.

Another caveat is to use a LITHIUM SPECIFIC Maintainer. Lead/Acid has a different charging curve than Lithium and can damage the battery by over-cycling the Lithium battery. But also note.... YOU DO NOT have to leave this battery on a trickle charge in general... there is no need, and we do not recommend ANY battery be left on trickle chargers if you don't need to store it, or don't have excessive parasitic drains... they just end up cycling the battery for no reason. So just for storage in your Car you can put it on one if you want to keep it alive for 3 months when you store it. But also note you can turn this battery OFF for storage if you take it out of the Car and put your Lead/Acid in for the storage time. Then just turn it on when you are ready to go again, it will hold a full charge for about 8 month and longer and you can just turn it on later and be ready to go.

You need the battery tray to make for a simple direct swap for the RS-30 into any Porsche using the Group 48 aka H6 Battery. Its a tray we make that you put on the battery, then it mounts directly like your stock battery. Literally one bolt to swap it out on the mount. See the image below...

There is also a 25 page thread on the GT3 forums here that I go into massive discussion of all things lithium... you will be an expert on lithium if you read it all.... https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...for-2-gt3.html

GVA-SFO

I use an "ATX12-24 / 720" since some years on my Boxster (track + fun use) and I'm more than very happy.
I wonder if the setup would be OK if I go on the modification from OEM ancillary/belt powered steering power to electric powered steering kit !
(less ancillary load, less weight on oil, pipe and cooling set, ..but more electricity demand !)

Would you think the Antigravity battery will be fine with an electric power steering setup ?

By the way, I use a "polystyrene home made" shape adaptor for the install in the battery bay, would be great to have a better (material) adaptor, I'm sure, we have all the same problem to install such (great) battery !

Scooby921

Are there any concerns for charging of the battery? The old lead-acid batteries seemed to be happy taking 10-30A off a charger. The newer AGM batteries must use a low amp trickle charger or they run into issues. What about Lithium batteries? What about the output of the alternator? Does it need to be modified to achieve nominal current to avoid battery damage?

Antigravity

Here are the facts about it...

1- First I have to put the Disclaimer.... The ATX12-24 is an extremely compact, and powerful battery and a good choice for Track use... BUT it does not have the protections of our more recent models. So this can be dangerous is the battery is allowed to over-discharge severly. For example over-discharge will damage a lithium battery... but additionally if you over- discharge it severely... then jump-start it or bump start it, or put it accidentally on a Lead/Acid charger this will cause a FAST-CHARGE on a Lithium Battery while at a low state of voltage/charge... which Lithium DOES NOT LIKE, and can result in the battery bloating up to worst case scenario of melting down in high-heat. So you have to be watchful of this and I'm sure you were because you used it well. That is why we push our newer products, because they have the protections built in so the average Customer can't accidentally damage or ruin it. But with that being said we still have a big demad for these very small foot-print, hi-power models. They just need more attention. The YTX12-24 is 15Ah... so that is actually a good amount of Ah for most Road Race/Track Vehicles.

2- Since the ATX12-24 has the ability to discharge high continuous current, and has nothing choking creating resistance ( no BMS) it could handle the additional load of the Electric Power Steering.... But within that you have to make sure you know the Amp Draw of the Electric Powersteering Unit. While I'm not worried of the ATX12-24 ability to put out the current to power a high Amp item like the Electric Powersteering, the fact is the Alternator should be covering this load mostly, while the battery is just keeping it stable the the current draw a bit more stable if the demand is peaking for a few moments. You do not want to have a condition where the Alternator is not putting out sufficient wattage to power the Accessories (fans, maybe AC, lighting, Elect. Powersteering, etc) and still charge the battery. Hope that make sense to you.

3) We have battery hold downs for most of the Models, but are in production on ones for the YTX12-24, and YTX/ATX20s... should be 6-8 weeks for those.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Antigravity

IN you car the battery will charge perfectly fine. Lithium Operate at roughly the same thresholds as lead but has a higher nominal voltage, and should not be charged above 14.8v. But this won't happen in most all stock/standard vehicles because most every alternator made works on a standardized voltage output... meaning most don't go above 14.6 in general though that may vary from 13.8 to 14.8 overall.

YOu concern with a Lithium Battery is just you don't want to use a Lead/Acid Charger because of a different charging Curve, and when lithium is in a severly over-discharged state it needs to be massaged up to about 10.5v where it then can take a very fast charge. But if it is extremely over-discharge and then the car is jump started or push started then it can pump in to high of a voltage for lithium. BUT>>>> Our RE-START batteries have the protections built in to PREVENT THIS. So that is why you want to use the RE-START versions of the Battery unless you are Track only and want to deal with the potential for over-discharge.

YOu DO NOT have to modify anything in the Car to use a Lithium Battery. Though there is the PIWIS system that on later Porsches you can put in you have a lithium battery. But on my GT3 RS I have intentionally left it in it regular setting without any ill effect because the car is charging exactly in the range lithium operates in. After testing this for another few months I am going to switch to the Lithium setting in PIWIS and do a comparison on the voltages and actions of the Alternator and see what changes it actually makes. But again no changes are actually necessary, and not flags have been encountered. The car just sees a fully charged battery sitting at 13.2v and goes about its business...

Scooby921

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not looking to buy / implement a new battery yet, but wanted to make sure nothing in my normal approach to vehicles and batteries needs significant change if and when I do.