PFC brakes
03-19-2018, 06:52 PM
#2
Race Director
PFC as far as I know and have been told makes nothing for the 991 cars. I have a 2017 Carrera GTS....switched to Girodisc 350mm front and rear so now I can use a GT3 front pad from Ferodo or Pagid or PFC...but only Ferodo and Pagid make rears that fit into our small rear caliper.
Sebring is my home track...I run advanced solo/instructor. I ate up Ferodo ds2500 pads real quick and they started to fail at Sebring even on a cold day leaving a ton of pad build up on the rotors. I tried Ferodo DS1.11 pads and they were better with temps but I ate through them in 2 days. In the past Pagid and PFC have been better. I will go back to Pagid Yellow RS29 again.
I find with the power of my 991.2 GTS with the new Turbo engine that the 350mm rotors and stock cooling is way too small for this car. The car needs at least 380mm front and 350mm rear with a larger rear caliper and better cooling ducts. Porsche didn't do a great job with brakes on the new S/GTS cars with the power they have. I am seeing much much higher speeds going into corners than I have with mypreviouse S and GTS Porsches.
Sebring is my home track...I run advanced solo/instructor. I ate up Ferodo ds2500 pads real quick and they started to fail at Sebring even on a cold day leaving a ton of pad build up on the rotors. I tried Ferodo DS1.11 pads and they were better with temps but I ate through them in 2 days. In the past Pagid and PFC have been better. I will go back to Pagid Yellow RS29 again.
I find with the power of my 991.2 GTS with the new Turbo engine that the 350mm rotors and stock cooling is way too small for this car. The car needs at least 380mm front and 350mm rear with a larger rear caliper and better cooling ducts. Porsche didn't do a great job with brakes on the new S/GTS cars with the power they have. I am seeing much much higher speeds going into corners than I have with mypreviouse S and GTS Porsches.
03-19-2018, 11:01 PM
#3
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Exactly same impression that I have. After I tuned my car, I'm still waiting to see all the potential when I return to Cup2 tires. With track season upon us, I need to figure it out what to do. My mechanic insists pagid is enough with stock discs. We run Blackhawk farms, road America and ginger man. The first is quite bad on brakes.
The way is see 3 basic solutions:
Pagid only
Gyrodisc plus pagid (or ferodo ) oem calipers
Big brake kit - Brembo probably
Optional would be adding GT4 cooling pipes, but I'm not sure about fitment given the under-panels being different.
Quite different budgets above. I share my car with my wife on track, so there isn't a lot of cooling in between. What I really don't want is going back and forth with those options, so I really appreciate the feedback!
The way is see 3 basic solutions:
Pagid only
Gyrodisc plus pagid (or ferodo ) oem calipers
Big brake kit - Brembo probably
Optional would be adding GT4 cooling pipes, but I'm not sure about fitment given the under-panels being different.
Quite different budgets above. I share my car with my wife on track, so there isn't a lot of cooling in between. What I really don't want is going back and forth with those options, so I really appreciate the feedback!
03-20-2018, 12:17 PM
#4
Race Director
John...also Cup2 tires are coming in N1 and N2....Im using Cup2 N0 and they've been wearing great but its interesting to find out the differences with the newer Cup2 tires. I wish Nitto NT01 came in stock 20" sizes for our cars....great track tires and usually cost much much less than the Michelins.
03-20-2018, 02:13 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by mdrums
John...also Cup2 tires are coming in N1 and N2....Im using Cup2 N0 and they've been wearing great but its interesting to find out the differences with the newer Cup2 tires. I wish Nitto NT01 came in stock 20" sizes for our cars....great track tires and usually cost much much less than the Michelins.
Not a lot of options on 20. I wanted to increase the rear to 315 but no Cup2s on that size. 325 would require different wheel width.
Big brake kits prices are high, but the OEM calipers won't take more than 350 mm, as far as I have read.
03-20-2018, 08:20 PM
#6
Race Director
Correct..you can do GiroDisc 350mm front which is stock size but will allow you to use the larger 2014-16 991.1 GT3 pads and you can increase rear rotor to 350mm with GiroDisc. Clark at Apexperformance.net has the correct info on this and product in stock.
03-21-2018, 12:20 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by mdrums
Correct..you can do GiroDisc 350mm front which is stock size but will allow you to use the larger 2014-16 991.1 GT3 pads and you can increase rear rotor to 350mm with GiroDisc. Clark at Apexperformance.net has the correct info on this and product in stock.
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03-21-2018, 07:25 PM
#9
Race Director
Humm.... Racing Brake has these on sale for $2800...380mm...the GiroDisc are $2400 and 350mm...but you can find slightly better pricing on the GiroDisc. For $400 to around 600 more I’d go with the Racing Brake.....I wish I knew about this when I bought my GiroDisc 5 months ago.
Also the Racing Brake replacement rotor rings are about $100 cheaper than GiroDisc!!!
Also the Racing Brake replacement rotor rings are about $100 cheaper than GiroDisc!!!
03-21-2018, 07:28 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by mdrums
Humm.... Racing Brake has these on sale for $2800...380mm...the GiroDisc are $2400 and 350mm...but you can find slightly better pricing on the GiroDisc. For $400 to around 600 more I’d go with the Racing Brake.....I wish I knew about this when I bought my GiroDisc 5 months ago.
03-21-2018, 07:40 PM
#11
Race Director
If you want to spend the cash the Brembo Big Brake kit with the much larger calipers are the way to go. Our front calipers are fine but the rear calipers are puny small pieces of junk. It’s not that bigger slows the car better...they do with less brake pressure...it’s that the bigger calipers, bigger pads and bigger rotors disparate the heat better...like much better.
03-21-2018, 08:01 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by mdrums
you probably should skip the Ferodo pads....not much pad material on them compared to Pagid or PFC...plus they wear fast and transfer heat to the caliper easy.I did Ferodo ...set of ds2500 and ds1.11 and that experiment was costly.
If you want to spend the cash the Brembo Big Brake kit with the much larger calipers are the way to go. Our front calipers are fine but the rear calipers are puny small pieces of junk. It’s not that bigger slows the car better...they do with less brake pressure...it’s that the bigger calipers, bigger pads and bigger rotors disparate the heat better...like much better.
If you want to spend the cash the Brembo Big Brake kit with the much larger calipers are the way to go. Our front calipers are fine but the rear calipers are puny small pieces of junk. It’s not that bigger slows the car better...they do with less brake pressure...it’s that the bigger calipers, bigger pads and bigger rotors disparate the heat better...like much better.
03-22-2018, 11:06 AM
#13
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Summary:
The "Brake" topic is a very misunderstood topic when it comes to a track / race car. Balance is the key to any ideal friction package. You will hear key terms involved when describing the balance of a car throughout all aspects of the corner ( entry , mid corner and exit ) that go beyond the suspension characteristics of the car. The braking balance is equally as important as the damper / suspension configuration when your looking for ideal compliance. We would be happy to discuss your current braking package with you in order to address any potential limitations or improvements that are possible.
Key Terms: Initial bite, Modulation and Release
Wear:
Brake wear and the topic of " which pads last longer then the others" is another highly misunderstood area in the braking world. There are numerous factors that go into brake wear. You have Pressure ( which various from driver to driver ), heat, ABS intervention and the actual circuit your running on. The only real way to measure this is in a constant environment. Also different pad compounds operate at different temperature ranges and if you run the pad outside this window you can see premature pad wear due to improper cooling.
* Wear sheets will paint a vivid picture of this*
Rotor and caliper size :
Rotor and caliper size on most Porsche Platforms are smaller in the rear then the front to help with the bias split. A classic example of this is why Porsche Motorsports homologated a 355 disc on the GT Daytona 991 when the vehicle was originally delivered with a 380mm rear disc. The oversized disc created too much bite in the rear of the car and tended to make the vehicle loose on entry due to having to much brake in the rear of the chassis. Even with Dual master cylinders and a bias adjuster it was still too much. There is a receipt around creating this balance and Bigger is not always better.
Please contact mike@rennsport-one or sales@friciton-one.com if you want to discuss the braking performance of your Porsche. After developing numerous propriatary compounds around the 987 / 997 / 981 /991 chassis we can help you achieve all of your friction needs.
The "Brake" topic is a very misunderstood topic when it comes to a track / race car. Balance is the key to any ideal friction package. You will hear key terms involved when describing the balance of a car throughout all aspects of the corner ( entry , mid corner and exit ) that go beyond the suspension characteristics of the car. The braking balance is equally as important as the damper / suspension configuration when your looking for ideal compliance. We would be happy to discuss your current braking package with you in order to address any potential limitations or improvements that are possible.
Key Terms: Initial bite, Modulation and Release
Wear:
Brake wear and the topic of " which pads last longer then the others" is another highly misunderstood area in the braking world. There are numerous factors that go into brake wear. You have Pressure ( which various from driver to driver ), heat, ABS intervention and the actual circuit your running on. The only real way to measure this is in a constant environment. Also different pad compounds operate at different temperature ranges and if you run the pad outside this window you can see premature pad wear due to improper cooling.
* Wear sheets will paint a vivid picture of this*
Rotor and caliper size :
Rotor and caliper size on most Porsche Platforms are smaller in the rear then the front to help with the bias split. A classic example of this is why Porsche Motorsports homologated a 355 disc on the GT Daytona 991 when the vehicle was originally delivered with a 380mm rear disc. The oversized disc created too much bite in the rear of the car and tended to make the vehicle loose on entry due to having to much brake in the rear of the chassis. Even with Dual master cylinders and a bias adjuster it was still too much. There is a receipt around creating this balance and Bigger is not always better.
Please contact mike@rennsport-one or sales@friciton-one.com if you want to discuss the braking performance of your Porsche. After developing numerous propriatary compounds around the 987 / 997 / 981 /991 chassis we can help you achieve all of your friction needs.
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03-22-2018, 04:38 PM
#14
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you probably should skip the Ferodo pads....not much pad material on them compared to Pagid or PFC...plus they wear fast and transfer heat to the caliper easy.I did Ferodo ...set of ds2500 and ds1.11 and that experiment was costly.
If you want to spend the cash the Brembo Big Brake kit with the much larger calipers are the way to go. Our front calipers are fine but the rear calipers are puny small pieces of junk. It’s not that bigger slows the car better...they do with less brake pressure...it’s that the bigger calipers, bigger pads and bigger rotors disparate the heat better...like much better.
If you want to spend the cash the Brembo Big Brake kit with the much larger calipers are the way to go. Our front calipers are fine but the rear calipers are puny small pieces of junk. It’s not that bigger slows the car better...they do with less brake pressure...it’s that the bigger calipers, bigger pads and bigger rotors disparate the heat better...like much better.
We are currently trying to find a 991 S or GTS to measure, since we are looking to develop a complete Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kit for the chassis. We are just about to release our complete kit for the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4, and you can see more on that kit here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t-finally.html
We already have front and rear brake kits for the 987, 981, 718 chassis. We also have a 997 coming in next week. If any of you are interested, please shoot me a PM.
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'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services
Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs
Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030
jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
'09 Carrera 2S, '08 Boxster LE (orange), '91 Acura NSX, Tesla Model 3 Performance, Fiesta ST
Jeff Ritter
Mgr. High Performance Division, Essex Parts Services
Essex Designed AP Racing Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits & 2-piece J Hook Discs
Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Spiegler Stainless Steel Brake Lines
704-824-6030
jeff.ritter@essexparts.com
03-23-2018, 10:47 AM
#15
Race Director
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with Ferodo on your car, but we have hundreds of 991 GT3 users, as well as thousands of other owners successfully running them on other platforms such as Corvettes, Camaro, Mustang, etc. The DS2500 doesn't have the heat capacity for track duty on a 911, and I'm not at all surprised they burned up quickly. We don't ever recommend that pad for a 911 unless it's strictly street/autoX, etc. The DS1.11 and DSUNO do have great heat capacity, and most of our customers get long wear out of them as well. John McLane, I'd suggest you check out the feedback on the Ferodo DS1.11 on the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4 forums before you jump to any conclusions about them based on one opinion. Negative feedback is a rarity, and certainly not the norm.
We are currently trying to find a 991 S or GTS to measure, since we are looking to develop a complete Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kit for the chassis. We are just about to release our complete kit for the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4, and you can see more on that kit here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t-finally.html
We already have front and rear brake kits for the 987, 981, 718 chassis. We also have a 997 coming in next week. If any of you are interested, please shoot me a PM.
We are currently trying to find a 991 S or GTS to measure, since we are looking to develop a complete Essex Designed AP Racing Competition Brake Kit for the chassis. We are just about to release our complete kit for the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4, and you can see more on that kit here: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t-finally.html
We already have front and rear brake kits for the 987, 981, 718 chassis. We also have a 997 coming in next week. If any of you are interested, please shoot me a PM.
I tried the ds2500 because Clark at Apex recommended them as a dual purpose pad and one that might not squeal on the street so much. They worked great on the street....horrible at the track. Maybe you guys should educate your dealers that the ds2500 isn’t for a 911 at the track! I wasted money due to this. Not Clark’s fault at all...he is only going on what you the manufacturer claims. Now you’re saying the ds2500 isn’t for a car at the track.
I read and talked with some GT3 and Cup guys that use the ds1.11 pads and liked them and some that didn’t. I thought I’d try them...they do not last on a 991.2 GTS....this car needs better brake cooling I know and your ds1.11 pads could handle it and the pad material got very thin after 2 days at Sebring. Other 991 guys running Pagid Yellows are seeing better pad wear.
If you would like to work with someone and have them try any other pads on a GTS at Sebring...I’d be happy to help.