Panamera - Tesla competitor??
10-13-2014, 06:50 PM
#16
Coal powered cars are the wave of the future...?
Electric motors produce instant torque, so they're quick, but run the quarter, recharge, rinse and repeat. Had a Tesla pass me on the right the other day then cut back in front of me - he advanced exactly one car length on the freeway - jerk.
James
Electric motors produce instant torque, so they're quick, but run the quarter, recharge, rinse and repeat. Had a Tesla pass me on the right the other day then cut back in front of me - he advanced exactly one car length on the freeway - jerk.
James
May be my English is too bad to be readable! I'm sorry for that.
In summary, Yes, burning coal to make energy is very bad, ..but still, it is 4 (FOUR) times better than burning gasoline with a car !
..or may be it is simply to hard to digest !
10-13-2014, 07:14 PM
#17
In the mean time, it is also good to remember the following for the gasoline :
. How much energy is used to drill a well ?
. How much energy is used to pump the oil out of the well ?
. How much energy is used to pump the oil through the pipes in to tank in the harbors ?
. How much energy is used to pump the oil in the supertankers ?
. How much energy is used by the supertankers to bring the oil to US coasts ?
. How much energy is used to pump the oil out of the supertankers ?
. How much energy is used to deliver the oil to the refineries ?
. How much energy is used by the refineries to transform oil into gasoline ?
(Here, I learnt that the 139 refineries currently in service, ..are the largest US gaz consumers !!)
. How much energy is used to deliver the gasoline from refineries to gas stations ?
..All of that, knowing that 85% of the gasoline used by the cars does nothing else than heating up the planet !
We do “that” since about 100 years, but, again, even if I’m a big time lover of V8’s (and good flat 6), I think we are seriously approaching the time to change.
10-13-2014, 10:16 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
Seems that you did NOT read my message above James !!
May be my English is too bad to be readable! I'm sorry for that.
In summary, Yes, burning coal to make energy is very bad, ..but still, it is 4 (FOUR) times better than burning gasoline with a car !
..or may be it is simply to hard to digest !
May be my English is too bad to be readable! I'm sorry for that.
In summary, Yes, burning coal to make energy is very bad, ..but still, it is 4 (FOUR) times better than burning gasoline with a car !
..or may be it is simply to hard to digest !
But perhaps it would help if you explained how I could have read your response before I made the original post...?
I'm not saying that burning coal to make electricity is worse than burning gasoline to fuel your car - I hate the butt ugly Panameras as much as anyone. I'm just pointing out that, even though they are heavily subsidized, electric cars are not a free ride. There are costs, both financial and environmental involved in producing electricity. And, yes, 67% of an electric car's energy comes from burning fossil fuels. 39% from burning coal.
James
Last edited by jheis; 10-14-2014 at 01:18 AM.
10-14-2014, 04:36 AM
#19
Thanks for my English.
Ok, I’ll try to explain : I was talking about my answer, that is the post # 11, ..after your message, that is the post #9, (in the “page 1”).
It looks like we are not on the same track.
Let me try to see if something can be done :
You do not like (like me) when humans burn coal !
Here, we are in a 100% agreement.
But, it seems that you like very much the cars with gasoline engine.
Well, I like them too, but, on my side, I try to express that driving a car with a gasoline engine, is worse than burning coal !
So, for me, if you want to stay honest, a gasoline engine car driver CANNOT be critic against an electric car driver, for the good reason, that even if this electric car driver would resides in a country where 100% of the electricity is made by burning coal, this electric driver would still be 4 (yes, four) time better for the planet, ..than the gasoline car driver.
This is what I was trying to explain to you , in my response, post #11, in the page 1 of this topic !
Ok, I’ll try to explain : I was talking about my answer, that is the post # 11, ..after your message, that is the post #9, (in the “page 1”).
It looks like we are not on the same track.
Let me try to see if something can be done :
You do not like (like me) when humans burn coal !
Here, we are in a 100% agreement.
But, it seems that you like very much the cars with gasoline engine.
Well, I like them too, but, on my side, I try to express that driving a car with a gasoline engine, is worse than burning coal !
So, for me, if you want to stay honest, a gasoline engine car driver CANNOT be critic against an electric car driver, for the good reason, that even if this electric car driver would resides in a country where 100% of the electricity is made by burning coal, this electric driver would still be 4 (yes, four) time better for the planet, ..than the gasoline car driver.
This is what I was trying to explain to you , in my response, post #11, in the page 1 of this topic !
10-14-2014, 05:43 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
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we bought the tesla NOT to save the environment, gas or to appear "green". i bought the tesla to terrorize my in-laws, to give them reason to wear Depends. i can raise my mother-in-law's blood pressure by 10mm/hg when i pull up on her driveway, and another 20 on every on-ramp. the D can't get here soon enough.
10-14-2014, 10:58 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
I bought a Panamera S e Hybrid because I wanted a performance car that would use less of our finite fuel supplies for casual driving. I've got a 6.7 kW solar array on my roof, so there's not really any question of where the energy is coming from.
I considered the Tesla S P85, but decided against it because of reliability concerns, range limitations, and the fact that it's not really a performance car in any respect other than straight line acceleration. Weight was a non-issue, because the PSeH and the model S are about the same weight.
The announcement of the P85D has me second-guessing myself, since the increase in power and the 4 wheel drive make up for a lot of that. I find the PSeH a little difficult, because it wants to give me either the throttle response I want (in Sports+) or the electric cruising I want once I reach speed (in e-Power), but not both.
On the other hand, I took a drive last week with my wife and mother in law that is not currently possible in the Tesla. It was over 300 miles, and there were no Superchargers remotely close to the route. I had 3 people in the car, so using my wife's Cayman S wouldn't have been a choice either.
I considered the Tesla S P85, but decided against it because of reliability concerns, range limitations, and the fact that it's not really a performance car in any respect other than straight line acceleration. Weight was a non-issue, because the PSeH and the model S are about the same weight.
The announcement of the P85D has me second-guessing myself, since the increase in power and the 4 wheel drive make up for a lot of that. I find the PSeH a little difficult, because it wants to give me either the throttle response I want (in Sports+) or the electric cruising I want once I reach speed (in e-Power), but not both.
On the other hand, I took a drive last week with my wife and mother in law that is not currently possible in the Tesla. It was over 300 miles, and there were no Superchargers remotely close to the route. I had 3 people in the car, so using my wife's Cayman S wouldn't have been a choice either.
10-14-2014, 02:09 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
I take it back.
I just took the car to the store, and on the way back I engaged Sports+ mode. I've been sticking to e-Power, trying to get the kind of acceleration I want while retaining electric cruise, and failing. It's just not that much fun to drive in e-Power. In Sports+ mode, man, it's a different car. I just about gave myself whiplash with my first standing start, and I was trying for moderate throttle.
I really did feel that instant-on electric torque. My Supra Turbo had a similar power to weight ratio, and it never gave me that kind of experience from a dead stop.
I don't need the 600+ HP of the Tesla P85D. 416 is enough for me, provided the car is programmed to deliver it. I need to be more active about swapping back and forth. Ideally I really want a software patch that will give me the responsiveness I want while being willing to turn off the engine when I'm done with it. The hardware is definitely capable, it's just the user interface.
I just took the car to the store, and on the way back I engaged Sports+ mode. I've been sticking to e-Power, trying to get the kind of acceleration I want while retaining electric cruise, and failing. It's just not that much fun to drive in e-Power. In Sports+ mode, man, it's a different car. I just about gave myself whiplash with my first standing start, and I was trying for moderate throttle.
I really did feel that instant-on electric torque. My Supra Turbo had a similar power to weight ratio, and it never gave me that kind of experience from a dead stop.
I don't need the 600+ HP of the Tesla P85D. 416 is enough for me, provided the car is programmed to deliver it. I need to be more active about swapping back and forth. Ideally I really want a software patch that will give me the responsiveness I want while being willing to turn off the engine when I'm done with it. The hardware is definitely capable, it's just the user interface.
10-15-2014, 07:03 PM
#23
Hmmm, by the way, there is a beautiful 2014 Panamera GTS dark gray, with dark gray interior at Rector, (brand new) and the price is VERY attractive. I just saw it today. I was close to trade my P4S against this one, but decided that I will not.
If you are interested, just call Randy Hill, you can say that you read my post !
If you are interested, just call Randy Hill, you can say that you read my post !
05-07-2015, 10:16 PM
#24
Instructor
GVA-SFO: if you're still in the market, Stead has a whole bunch of Pannys in stock at very attractive prices. Exec demo GTS, Turbo, Turbo S, Executive, etc. Also some new 2014s that they want to get rid of. My favorite is a 2014 agate grey GTS exec demo with gorgeous Alcantara interior and fully loaded. They're asking $134k. Just FYI. I know this because I'm in the market myself.
That said, I landed on this thread because I was trying to find comments about Teslas from current Panny owners. I test drove a P85D a few days ago and was impressed. Tough choice.
That said, I landed on this thread because I was trying to find comments about Teslas from current Panny owners. I test drove a P85D a few days ago and was impressed. Tough choice.
05-07-2015, 10:32 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
I'm not sure how many Panamera owners have actually driven a Tesla. I haven't, and I probably should have at least looked. Most of us (and I'm definitely including myself) are not talking from personal experience.
One thing I've become more aware of since I wrote last, the P85D, while a ridiculous drag-strip monster, is even more of a drag strip car and less of a sports car than I first knew. The battery pack has a hard time delivering that tremendous power for a long time due to waste heat. The P85 had that problem, and the additional motor in the P85D doesn't change the battery's limits.
If you head on over to the official Tesla forums, you'll find a few threads on the subject. Also a couple complaining about reduced power output once the battery drops to 50% or so. It's still peppy, but it's not doing face-melting 0-60 in 3 seconds anymore.
Arguably, that's not that important, since most of us only really use the acceleration of cars like this for a few seconds at a time. Going down on an on-ramp, or maybe passing on a country road, but mostly we're cruising, not racing.
One thing I've become more aware of since I wrote last, the P85D, while a ridiculous drag-strip monster, is even more of a drag strip car and less of a sports car than I first knew. The battery pack has a hard time delivering that tremendous power for a long time due to waste heat. The P85 had that problem, and the additional motor in the P85D doesn't change the battery's limits.
If you head on over to the official Tesla forums, you'll find a few threads on the subject. Also a couple complaining about reduced power output once the battery drops to 50% or so. It's still peppy, but it's not doing face-melting 0-60 in 3 seconds anymore.
Arguably, that's not that important, since most of us only really use the acceleration of cars like this for a few seconds at a time. Going down on an on-ramp, or maybe passing on a country road, but mostly we're cruising, not racing.
05-07-2015, 10:39 PM
#26
Drifting
I test drove a P85D a few days ago and was impressed. Tough choice.
P.s. Handles pretty damn good, too!
05-08-2015, 01:22 AM
#27
Instructor
I have two Porsches now, and I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a Panny Turbo S. But after driving the P85D, I'm not so sure. It really is the future. And this coming from a guy who was biased against EVs just a few days ago. But after experiencing it, I'm a believer.
The instant-on torque of the P85D is incredible. Honestly, the P85D has won before the Panny even gets started. You don't think about this until you drive the P85D. It's just so easy to accelerate. Zero delay. No drivetrain take-up, no computer saying, "are you sure?" None of that. It just blasts off.
That all said, I don't think the Tesla is visually appealing inside or out, and I hate the gigantic touch screen. I would much rather see several smaller screens, ala 918 (and future Panny concepts).
The instant-on torque of the P85D is incredible. Honestly, the P85D has won before the Panny even gets started. You don't think about this until you drive the P85D. It's just so easy to accelerate. Zero delay. No drivetrain take-up, no computer saying, "are you sure?" None of that. It just blasts off.
That all said, I don't think the Tesla is visually appealing inside or out, and I hate the gigantic touch screen. I would much rather see several smaller screens, ala 918 (and future Panny concepts).