GVA-SFO

Very interesting, as I can read here, we are a kind of “small team”, for which, “Turbo” is not that well appreciated.

Let me post again what I consider as an excellent article about “turbos”:
https://carbuzz.com/features/this-is...onomy-is-a-lie

Now, for @GTS1, in my side, my “manual fix” ..is an old Boxster S, that is quite modified for been a pretty good track (and fun car) !
For example, to give you a good picture, I have two set of wheels: one has BF Goodrich G-Force R1, ..and the other set has Nitto NT01 !
I do have a brand new set of tires, with Pilot Sport, ..but these are not on rims !
I think, this should gives you a good view of the use of this Boxster !
(note : some persons would say, “ah, 2 set of Michelin ! J, ..these are the ones that knows, ..that BF Goodrich is a Michelin 100% subsidiary !)

By the way, you can “see” the it here :
https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...l#post15001266

Back on Panamera, even thinking that the above article is right, yes, my envy is to go “Turbo”, why ?
Simply to have one more V8, ..i.e.: trying to protect extinct races !
I do know pretty well the differences between a V8 N/A (after this Panamera) and a Turbo, ..as we also have a 2011 Cayenne Turbo.
I fully agree that the V8 normally aspirated is so great, but, if you want a Panamera V8, ..then you have to go Turbo ! (The GTS is not in my line, as imo, the suspension is set too stiff).
And also, no envy to go 2018, as, ..I’m like @cometguy, .. I DO (much) prefer the early Panamera line. A), for my eyes, the new one has no special character (lines) like the old one has, and B), the center console with glass is may be good for the “smartphone addicts”, but, for me : “no way Jose”.

That been said, I’m in the hunt for an “old” Turbo with “no miles”, CPO good for at least 2 years, (3 would be better), and a series of specific options that I want, ..before pulling he trigger !
Ah, I forgot, it can be any colors, ..but black (Jet or normal).

Yes, I do NOT understand why Porsche is emasculating the number of cylinders of the best cars (i.e.: A 4S is now a V6 turbo), ..while the Audi brother is not making R8 V8 anymore, the new R8 are V10 only !)

GTS1

I truly appreciate all Porsches in one way or another, turbo or NA motors, old and new. I just tend to have an affinity toward the older 911s and NA side of things motor wise. I guess all of the ever increasing emissions standards are driving Porsche and others toward smaller displacement /smaller engines. Obviously forced induction keeps the power up. So in a lot of ways, I guess turbos are a good thing these days as we now move toward more hybrid electric. Anyway, for me when it comes to Porsches , I will stick with the NA version as long as they are available, used or otherwise. For the moment, my 970 P4 and 997.2 GTS continue to provide a wonderful experience for me every time I get behind the wheel of them.

B Russ

I will admit my 3.0tt is missing a bit of that Porsche sound and feel. It does perform well but the NA V8 is much more of what you would expect from a Porsche or a performance car. My next one will be V8 in some form as long as the still make them. I have no issue with turbo V8 and actually like forced induction motors.

c4racer

Ya - I am not a fan of these smaller displacement turbo motors being used to improve the CAFE averages. What a crock that whole mess is.

I am enjoying my pair of NA V8 performance cars - the big 970 S with the little 4.8 and the small 6th gen Camaro SS with the 6.2 and 6MT. Both fantastic cars in their own right that I enjoy the heck out of every time I am lucky enough to drive either one !

GVA-SFO

..Very close to be “back on topic” !
After selling my P4S last year, I just was very close to get a Silver Turbo, with low miles, but realized that it had PCCB, I was scared ! (..it was an “S” !!)
If you read this thread, you will see that I have been often on non paved roads, and frankly, I’m very scared that “free stones” could make some quite expensive hit on the rotors !
I think also that PCCB could be nice when you are the first owner, but, ..this could be a super high cost item if you do a lot of miles !
So, at the “last minute”, I did pass after a lot of hesitations.
Funny, I understood (after going back and asking if “it was still there”), I understood that it was sold (to someone that traded in a 500 miles brand new S6 Plus) !
Well, I will continue my hunt for a black or Silver low miles Turbo (“non S”) with the options that I would love to have (and, the most important : ..be CPOed !)
Hope to be back on topic soon !

991MK2

I went from a 991.2TTS to a 971 Turbo S E Hybrid ST. Best decision ever made and has been a daily for the last few weeks.

lbcgolf

Y not both?

Hell, even GT3 drivers who track their cars prefer steel rotors to PCCB. And here I though ceramics were just better at the track, lol. The ones that make the least sense are the 4E-Hybrids with PCCB. What a waste of potential stopping power when the majority of the braking will be done by the regen motors!

dryadsdad

I'm new to Panamera ownership too coming from 911 land and also a Cayenne TT thrown in until we discovered we're not SUV folks - even Porsche brand SUV's.

I'm in complete agreement with your OP that the PDK is a huge letdown. We just got back from a week's trip which had two days of driving for a total of almost 2,000 miles. Those were long days but here in the western US, if you get lucky as we did, you can keep it above 100 for miles and miles. We formed up with an S-class and another to speedplay for almost a full tank of gas. Speeds up to 130 mph indicated. When I had to slow down to 80 mph, it felt as if we could exit the car and walk alongside of it.

Even after all those miles per day including having to slow down for local streets, where the PDK should be welcome, I can't stand it. It feels unnatural given my lifetime of three pedal driving. Everything else about the car is great including its handling which surprised me at how good it was. Gosh, would it be terrific with a 7 speed. Ha ha on that.

GVA-SFO

@Dryadsdad : ..A Panamera like that one :



Oups, this was in Europe, some time ago. (For sure, no photoshop : a real one.)
Yes, this would be then THE 100% Perfect car !

The problem "here", is to get the best possible CAFE score. Only a computer driven gear shifter can make it easier, ..and it has to be in "normal" mode.
Frankly, between "that" and the VW "Dieselgate", ..I do not see a real difference.

Btw, I would be curious to know that you call "an S-class" ?

I did drove through your state some weeks ago, i.e.: after flying to Denver, renting a car, going South, i.e.: to Colorado Spring ..to drive up to Pikes Peak, (then to the Great Sand Dunes, then to Mesa Verde), we went West to Shiprock, ..and then East i.e.: via the 64 (sure with a stop in Taos), and then ..all the way to Washington D.C. !
(Last year in the long ones, we did Philadelphia to San Francisco.)

Or : yes, I do love the long drives in this beautiful country.
Last week end, we simply did a San Francisco to Los Angeles (and back), but with our CTT.
The ride was comfy enough, ..or quite nice, comparing about being in L.A. that Friday evening. This was not really comfy. (Shaking so much that water of the hotel pool went for free ride !)
It is very true that long rides in CTT are very different than long rides in Panamera !
I think NOTHING beats a Panamera (with Air Suspension) for long rides.

In our case, we had SUV, ..well before they were named like that. A long times with multi 911 + multi Range Rover (first: the generation "one"), that had a long inclined shifter, ..and a low power 130 hp V8 (from Buick !)
Still, I do continue to enjoy such type of car. It is true that to tow our (small ..but heavy) boat, ..or my Boxster when going to track, I would say : what can you do without such a car ?

I'm still looking to get another Panamera, but I have not found one yet that have the options that I'm looking for, and the colors combo (inside/outside) that I like.
No problem, I'm patient. Well, I should not say "no problem", as the odometer of the CTT is now already over 100k !
(Recently, we got on the fly a new "option" with the CTT : Automatic Passenger Feet Shower ! Hopefuly, I found the tap.)

dryadsdad

To me and AFAIK, others, S-Class means a Benz S model as opposed to, say the M or E class among others. These are wonderful cars while on warranty but scary complex when off which is part of the reason they plummet in value faster than almost any other car. Last I heard, these had 100 sensors along the CAN any of which can fail or grow wonky necessitating a difficult diagnosis (which sensor is it?) and a more difficult fix.

We have the steel suspension in the Panny which I find works to our needs perfectly. Two days ago we set out on an 800-mile trip which we planned on two days to complete. I drove exclusively. When we got to the planned stopping place at 500 miles, I felt no different from when we set out so we simply re-fueled, ate and resumed the journey to its completion. After driving those 800 miles, I wasn't even slightly fatigued. I'd not hesitate to plan and execute a 1,000-mile trip if we wished to rush to our destination.

Yes, the CAFE is why the PDK is programmed in D to start in second gear. The Vettes shift from 1 to 4 unless you add a cut off to deactivate the relevant solenoid. I'm sure this is common in cars. Bob Lutz referred to CAFE standards as putting buyers and car companies into a war against each other. I agree, but so what. Manual Pannys are as rare as virginal prostitutes.

We too had an early SUV in our case a G1 Ford Explorer which was an all right car rather than the bloated lumbering monstrosities they've morphed into. My guess is carmakers have increased the size of all their offerings to accommodate the obesity epidemic overrunning our nation. Our cars easily could handle us if we grew from our current 170 and 130 lb respectively into 400 lbs each. While 400 pounders are rare, 300 pounders are a good deal more common than most think so the world must address them if you wish to sell to them. If you go into a doc's office, you'll see some 'love seats' in the waiting room. Those are 500 lb chairs or chair to fit a 500 lb person. At work we had to replace our 300 lb chairs with 500 lb ones since the lesser capacity became too light for safety.

While we prefer, in general, travel by motorcycle, I have to admit the Panny's HVAC made a huge difference considering the shade temperatures were roughly 40C or over 100F. 400 miles of such on a bike is likely all we could take which is a stretch for my wife. We each ride our own bikes.

I hope you soon find your ideal Panny but the CTT seems like a luxurious alternative until then.

GVA-SFO

Still looking for a 2014-2016 Turbo, and in a recent find, ..I just understood today that Porsche has blocked all the sales of the ones that have "Sport Plus" option (a must in my view !) from 2012 to 2016, for ..improper fuel economy ratings of 2012-2016 !

Do anybody here have heard anything about this news ?

walkabout

Just made the same move last week. Traded my 2014 911 Turbo for a Panamera sport Tourismo. I have owned a large variety of Porsche's over 50 years or so. I enjoyed the 991.1 Turbo as much as any I have owned and never thought I would sell it. I live at 5500 feet near a major ski area and could only drive the Turbo 6 months a year , and I got tired of driving a SUV ( including Cayenne ) as my daily driver. I now intend to drive the PST as my daily driver and enjoy driving a Porsche daily instead of only on occasions in good weather. The PST is too new to me to have any major conclusions but so far I think it is an incredible car with a true Porsche feel.

krabman

It has now been fleshed out somewhat: It seems that Porsche used cars for certification with longer gears, cut and paste from the complaint regarding 2010-2016 Porsche Panamera and the 2009-2016 Porsche 911...

The complaint says, “Test vehicles had a longer gear ratio than those actually sold to customers. A longer gear ratio means lower fuel consumption (and slower acceleration), which in turn means fewer CO2 emissions. In the vehicles actually sold or leased to consumers, Porsche used shorter gear ratios, which meant those cars performed better but also emitted more CO2 than the test vehicles had.”

End cut and paste...

This is in litigation now so we should be hearing more as it moves forward.

B Russ

I moved on from my 2014 pan 4s 3.0 to a 18 4.0tt. then added the 17 911 4s. Got it covered pretty well now.
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GVA-SFO

@krabman : ..(more than) Very interesting !
Can I ask where you sourced that info ?