Good bye 911 (after 30 year non stop), hello Panamera !
02-02-2016, 12:47 AM
#211
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This is so funny :
Porsche CEO Oliver Blume just said : “..No one buys a Porsche because they're interested in having someone else drive it “ !!!
Now, he should explain to me why he let a computer changing the gears on mine.
Or, would he have the guts to also said that this (PDK) is nothing else than another trick to lower the emission of CO2 ???
Porsche CEO Oliver Blume just said : “..No one buys a Porsche because they're interested in having someone else drive it “ !!!
Now, he should explain to me why he let a computer changing the gears on mine.
Or, would he have the guts to also said that this (PDK) is nothing else than another trick to lower the emission of CO2 ???
02-02-2016, 01:12 AM
#212
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
The display said today : "Chassis Problem" !!!!
Too bad that I have no way to answer, as I would say : "Hey, Dummy, this is 4'000 miles that I saying that !"
..I hope that the computer will keep this message on his memory !
02-02-2016, 09:53 AM
#213
What?
This is so funny :
Porsche CEO Oliver Blume just said : “..No one buys a Porsche because they're interested in having someone else drive it “ !!!
Now, he should explain to me why he let a computer changing the gears on mine.
Or, would he have the guts to also said that this (PDK) is nothing else than another trick to lower the emission of CO2 ???
Porsche CEO Oliver Blume just said : “..No one buys a Porsche because they're interested in having someone else drive it “ !!!
Now, he should explain to me why he let a computer changing the gears on mine.
Or, would he have the guts to also said that this (PDK) is nothing else than another trick to lower the emission of CO2 ???
Last edited by AndrewP; 02-02-2016 at 03:16 PM.
02-03-2016, 12:48 AM
#214
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, ..if for you, PDK in manual mode is the same as a stick shift, ..then, we are simply not thinking the same ! (And, I doubt we will ever agreeing on such topic.)
I respect your love for PDK, like I just hope that you will respect that for my view, PDK is a computer driven gear shifting, and/or simply “another” (!!!) trick, to optimize emission control (to lower CO2 taxes).
No question of being a purist here, but for me, (and for some others) amongst the components of the pleasure of driving, ..there is the pleasure of acting on clutch and changing gears using a shift stick.
While I can well understand that this is not true for everybody, I would just hope that “the others” could also understand such view.
Now, more deeply : I do think that Dr. Blume is not right with his latest statement (i.e.: ““..No one buys a Porsche because they're interested in having someone else drive it“
As, I’m sure they will still be some people that would buy Porsche that can be “computer (fully, ..not only the gear box) driven”, ..i.e.: in order to use it like : “ Go, car, let’s drive down town and find a parking slot right in the front of the terasse of thedowntownchicbar, and if no spot, then just cruise around till you find one” !
..May be they are more of this kind of potential customers, ..than the ones that love stick shift !
I respect your love for PDK, like I just hope that you will respect that for my view, PDK is a computer driven gear shifting, and/or simply “another” (!!!) trick, to optimize emission control (to lower CO2 taxes).
No question of being a purist here, but for me, (and for some others) amongst the components of the pleasure of driving, ..there is the pleasure of acting on clutch and changing gears using a shift stick.
While I can well understand that this is not true for everybody, I would just hope that “the others” could also understand such view.
Now, more deeply : I do think that Dr. Blume is not right with his latest statement (i.e.: ““..No one buys a Porsche because they're interested in having someone else drive it“
As, I’m sure they will still be some people that would buy Porsche that can be “computer (fully, ..not only the gear box) driven”, ..i.e.: in order to use it like : “ Go, car, let’s drive down town and find a parking slot right in the front of the terasse of thedowntownchicbar, and if no spot, then just cruise around till you find one” !
..May be they are more of this kind of potential customers, ..than the ones that love stick shift !
02-03-2016, 09:10 AM
#215
I certainly respect your preference for a manual transmission. Why did you get a vehicle with a PDK?
Yes, a manual makes track work more challenging and engaging, but I am still working on weight transfer on track and find that the PDK allows me to concentrate on that. For that matter, I rather like the AWD setup of my TTS and that may not be considered a pure sports car setup. Drove a GT4 on track and enjoyed it so am contemplating a Spyder, as mentioned, as the top down experience outweighs the track focused suspension and other bits on the GT4, as well as the fact that GT4 allocations are rare.
Yes, a manual makes track work more challenging and engaging, but I am still working on weight transfer on track and find that the PDK allows me to concentrate on that. For that matter, I rather like the AWD setup of my TTS and that may not be considered a pure sports car setup. Drove a GT4 on track and enjoyed it so am contemplating a Spyder, as mentioned, as the top down experience outweighs the track focused suspension and other bits on the GT4, as well as the fact that GT4 allocations are rare.
02-03-2016, 02:04 PM
#216
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Quite easy answer :
Because this is not available in the USA :
And, do not get me wrong, for me, the Panamera is the best handling 4 doors that I ever drove. For me, just too bad that we cannot have it in Manual in the US.
And, my “fun/track” car is manual !
(At least, it is a Boxster, so, the engine is in the right position !)
I agree that for non professional, occasional track guys, a “fast automatic” gearbox is more easier than a traditional gearbox car. The perfect solution could be a sequential GB, but, beside the cost, a sequential requires a decent amount of “flight time” in order to be “OK” and efficient with it, particularly for downshifting.
So, yes, I could say that in an “amateur driving” good world, the track car should be PDK, and the road car should be manual.
But, I’m in the opposite !
I can understand that a TTS (I have no experience at all with this car) should be very efficient on track. The AWD kind of balance the rear engine, but I would think that in “short and curvy” tracks, it should be very tough for the car.
I suppose the car should be much more happy in fast tracks. (For example, like in the (super) good ones that I know (in Europe) would be Monza or, le Castellet (Paul Ricard) !
Being fast with an AWD is also a challenge that require “flight time”, as this is all but not easy. An AWD is a very different animal at the limit, ..than a rear WD !
I understand your envy for a Spyder, and this, big time.
To my view, it is for sure the BEST Boxster ever produced by Porsche.
Or, may be more simply : a “current” 911S Cab with the engine at the right position !
(And close to 400 pounds lighter that an N/A model, or, ..500 less of the latest (turbo) one !)
What can be better than that ???
I could simply call it "a 911S with the engine at the right place" !)
It even as the best brakes you can dream about !
..but, it is a ..Manual car !!
Because this is not available in the USA :
And, do not get me wrong, for me, the Panamera is the best handling 4 doors that I ever drove. For me, just too bad that we cannot have it in Manual in the US.
And, my “fun/track” car is manual !
(At least, it is a Boxster, so, the engine is in the right position !)
I agree that for non professional, occasional track guys, a “fast automatic” gearbox is more easier than a traditional gearbox car. The perfect solution could be a sequential GB, but, beside the cost, a sequential requires a decent amount of “flight time” in order to be “OK” and efficient with it, particularly for downshifting.
So, yes, I could say that in an “amateur driving” good world, the track car should be PDK, and the road car should be manual.
But, I’m in the opposite !
I can understand that a TTS (I have no experience at all with this car) should be very efficient on track. The AWD kind of balance the rear engine, but I would think that in “short and curvy” tracks, it should be very tough for the car.
I suppose the car should be much more happy in fast tracks. (For example, like in the (super) good ones that I know (in Europe) would be Monza or, le Castellet (Paul Ricard) !
Being fast with an AWD is also a challenge that require “flight time”, as this is all but not easy. An AWD is a very different animal at the limit, ..than a rear WD !
I understand your envy for a Spyder, and this, big time.
To my view, it is for sure the BEST Boxster ever produced by Porsche.
Or, may be more simply : a “current” 911S Cab with the engine at the right position !
(And close to 400 pounds lighter that an N/A model, or, ..500 less of the latest (turbo) one !)
What can be better than that ???
I could simply call it "a 911S with the engine at the right place" !)
It even as the best brakes you can dream about !
..but, it is a ..Manual car !!
Last edited by GVA-SFO; 04-25-2016 at 07:16 PM.
02-06-2016, 06:00 PM
#217
Well, isn't that the whole point of the Panamera Executive models, that you want someone else to drive it while you lounge with all that legroom in the back, or do they sell these to drivers who are just very concerned about rear passenger comfort?
02-09-2016, 01:08 PM
#218
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I would like to take the opportunity, thanks to the quite important number of people (many thanks to all of you), viewing this topic, i.e.: I'm quite impress to be close to 40'000 view today !) to copy here the latest news from EPA :
************************************************
WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars. The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal. The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled "Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2."
The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs commonly converted strictly for use at the track. While the Clean Air Act prohibits certain modifications to motor vehicles, it is clear that vehicles built or modified for racing, and not used on the streets, are not the "motor vehicles" that Congress intended to regulate.
"This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles," said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. "Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion."
SEMA submitted comments in opposition to the regulation and met with the EPA to confirm the agency's intentions. The EPA indicated that the regulation would prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars and make the sale of certain emissions-related parts for use on converted vehicles illegal. Working with other affected organizations, including those representing legions of professional and hobbyist racers and fans, SEMA will continue to oppose the regulation through the administrative process and will seek congressional support and judicial intervention as necessary.
The EPA has indicated it expects to publish final regulations by July 2016.
************************************************
I think it is important for all of us, lover of the automobile sport, to fight as much as we can again such initiative.
Let’s spread this message as much as we can.
Thanks again.
************************************************
WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2016 /PRNewswire/ -- The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars. The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal. The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled "Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2."
The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs commonly converted strictly for use at the track. While the Clean Air Act prohibits certain modifications to motor vehicles, it is clear that vehicles built or modified for racing, and not used on the streets, are not the "motor vehicles" that Congress intended to regulate.
"This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles," said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. "Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion."
SEMA submitted comments in opposition to the regulation and met with the EPA to confirm the agency's intentions. The EPA indicated that the regulation would prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars and make the sale of certain emissions-related parts for use on converted vehicles illegal. Working with other affected organizations, including those representing legions of professional and hobbyist racers and fans, SEMA will continue to oppose the regulation through the administrative process and will seek congressional support and judicial intervention as necessary.
The EPA has indicated it expects to publish final regulations by July 2016.
************************************************
I think it is important for all of us, lover of the automobile sport, to fight as much as we can again such initiative.
Let’s spread this message as much as we can.
Thanks again.
02-11-2016, 07:12 AM
#219
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You can sign the petition against this on We the People:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//pe...les-racecars-0
I just did.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//pe...les-racecars-0
I just did.
02-12-2016, 04:15 AM
#220
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yes, fyi, I got the following message, thanks to Doug Gales, from Trackmasters, who is a great DE/track Days organizer (Thanks Doug).
(www.trackmasters-racing.com)
Here is a copy :
The EPA is coming after Motorsports!!!
Please Read and Sign the Petition at the link below if you value your hobby & your vehicles!
If you're not aware of this already the EPA is trying to sneak in new laws that will prohibit the conversion of production vehicles into race cars. This affects all forms of racing and could serioulsy impact the motorsports industry and all of our experiences on a race track.
Off road, drag, road race, motorcycles, circle track, shop owners, parts suppliers, etc. Everyone will be affected!
1 minute (or less) of your time is needed to sign this on-line petition. It's so very important as it will stop the over-reach of the EPA to ban the conversion of any street legal vehicle into any form of race or recreational only vehicle.
If allowed to pass in it's current form this bill will lead to the outlawing of many forms of motorsports and recreational vehicles of all types. (AND... prohibit the sale of modified vehicles!)
This is the link to the Whitehouse petition page which you need to sign now. Click on the link now and let's stop this nonsense!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//pe...les-racecars-0
SEMA represents the aftermarket car industry and you can read their summary of the situation below. 1 minute is all we ask of you to help preserve our sport! Please forward this to anyone you know in the industry and anyone who races motor vehicles.
EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles into Racecars
SEMA To Oppose Action As Threat to Modified Racecars and Parts Suppliers
Washington, DC (February 8, 2016) – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars. The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal. The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled "Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2."
The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs commonly converted strictly for use at the track. While the Clean Air Act prohibits certain modifications to motor vehicles, it is clear that vehicles built or modified for racing, and not used on the streets, are not the "motor vehicles" that Congress intended to regulate.
"This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles," said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. "Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion."
SEMA submitted comments in opposition to the regulation and met with the EPA to confirm the agency’s intentions. The EPA indicated that the regulation would prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars and make the sale of certain emissions-related parts for use on converted vehicles illegal. Working with other affected organizations, including those representing legions of professional and hobbyist racers and fans, SEMA will continue to oppose the regulation through the administrative process and will seek congressional support and judicial intervention as necessary.
The EPA has indicated it expects to publish final regulations by July 2016.
About SEMA
SEMA, the Specialty Equipment Market Association founded in 1963, represents the $36 billion specialty automotive industry of 6,633 member-companies. It is the authoritative source for research, data, trends and market growth information for the specialty auto parts industry. The industry provides appearance, performance, comfort, convenience and technology products for passenger and recreational vehicles. For more information, contact SEMA at 1575 S. Valley Vista Dr., Diamond Bar, CA 91765, tel: 909-610-2030, or visit www.sema.org.
(www.trackmasters-racing.com)
Here is a copy :
The EPA is coming after Motorsports!!!
Please Read and Sign the Petition at the link below if you value your hobby & your vehicles!
If you're not aware of this already the EPA is trying to sneak in new laws that will prohibit the conversion of production vehicles into race cars. This affects all forms of racing and could serioulsy impact the motorsports industry and all of our experiences on a race track.
Off road, drag, road race, motorcycles, circle track, shop owners, parts suppliers, etc. Everyone will be affected!
1 minute (or less) of your time is needed to sign this on-line petition. It's so very important as it will stop the over-reach of the EPA to ban the conversion of any street legal vehicle into any form of race or recreational only vehicle.
If allowed to pass in it's current form this bill will lead to the outlawing of many forms of motorsports and recreational vehicles of all types. (AND... prohibit the sale of modified vehicles!)
This is the link to the Whitehouse petition page which you need to sign now. Click on the link now and let's stop this nonsense!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//pe...les-racecars-0
SEMA represents the aftermarket car industry and you can read their summary of the situation below. 1 minute is all we ask of you to help preserve our sport! Please forward this to anyone you know in the industry and anyone who races motor vehicles.
EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles into Racecars
SEMA To Oppose Action As Threat to Modified Racecars and Parts Suppliers
Washington, DC (February 8, 2016) – The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed a regulation to prohibit conversion of vehicles originally designed for on-road use into racecars. The regulation would also make the sale of certain products for use on such vehicles illegal. The proposed regulation was contained within a non-related proposed regulation entitled "Greenhouse Gas Emissions and Fuel Efficiency Standards for Medium- and Heavy-Duty Engines and Vehicles—Phase 2."
The regulation would impact all vehicle types, including the sports cars, sedans and hatch-backs commonly converted strictly for use at the track. While the Clean Air Act prohibits certain modifications to motor vehicles, it is clear that vehicles built or modified for racing, and not used on the streets, are not the "motor vehicles" that Congress intended to regulate.
"This proposed regulation represents overreaching by the agency, runs contrary to the law and defies decades of racing activity where EPA has acknowledged and allowed conversion of vehicles," said SEMA President and CEO Chris Kersting. "Congress did not intend the original Clean Air Act to extend to vehicles modified for racing and has re-enforced that intent on more than one occasion."
SEMA submitted comments in opposition to the regulation and met with the EPA to confirm the agency’s intentions. The EPA indicated that the regulation would prohibit conversion of vehicles into racecars and make the sale of certain emissions-related parts for use on converted vehicles illegal. Working with other affected organizations, including those representing legions of professional and hobbyist racers and fans, SEMA will continue to oppose the regulation through the administrative process and will seek congressional support and judicial intervention as necessary.
The EPA has indicated it expects to publish final regulations by July 2016.
About SEMA
SEMA, the Specialty Equipment Market Association founded in 1963, represents the $36 billion specialty automotive industry of 6,633 member-companies. It is the authoritative source for research, data, trends and market growth information for the specialty auto parts industry. The industry provides appearance, performance, comfort, convenience and technology products for passenger and recreational vehicles. For more information, contact SEMA at 1575 S. Valley Vista Dr., Diamond Bar, CA 91765, tel: 909-610-2030, or visit www.sema.org.
02-12-2016, 08:47 PM
#221
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Do you know that 10’000 songs on USB device is the Max for the Panamera “stereo system” ?
Now with the cost of flash drives being so attractive (i.e.: the 128GB at Costco are in the range of 20 bucks !!), some time ago, I decided to change my music 16GB jump drive, that was permanently in the car, and had a “short” selection (take time to “do that”, if you want to do it nicely !) and I bought one of these to simply copy all my music.
I should say that since many years, I did ripped all my CDs, I also did digitize many of my LP and, in addition to the music that I bought digitally, I have a collection of about 12k songs on my HDUs.
So, easy to transfer this entire set into a 128Gig jump drive.
Well, ..then, a little surprise when you try to read such drive in the car : It top it to 10’000 and, in addition to that, each time you start up the car, ..it try rebuild the database before displaying anything !
Btw, I would be curious to know if the later version of the system have “an higher” limit ?
Now with the cost of flash drives being so attractive (i.e.: the 128GB at Costco are in the range of 20 bucks !!), some time ago, I decided to change my music 16GB jump drive, that was permanently in the car, and had a “short” selection (take time to “do that”, if you want to do it nicely !) and I bought one of these to simply copy all my music.
I should say that since many years, I did ripped all my CDs, I also did digitize many of my LP and, in addition to the music that I bought digitally, I have a collection of about 12k songs on my HDUs.
So, easy to transfer this entire set into a 128Gig jump drive.
Well, ..then, a little surprise when you try to read such drive in the car : It top it to 10’000 and, in addition to that, each time you start up the car, ..it try rebuild the database before displaying anything !
Btw, I would be curious to know if the later version of the system have “an higher” limit ?
02-12-2016, 09:32 PM
#222
So I put more songs on the new drive and the PCM would create directories with no titles in them and it kept rebuilding the database. I looked up the limits and found 10K was it. So I got rid of some stuff and now the music over the USB interface starts up right where it was when I turned off the car.
02-17-2016, 02:41 PM
#223
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I trimmed my tune collection a bit, now down to somewhere in the 9'750, ..and all looks good and working fine again.
Well, I should say that I was not aware of this limit !
It is true that having 10'000 songs aboard, with you, could be seen as a kind of "funny" !
..but, in my opinion, it does match well the fabulous cruising/long ride capability of this car.
Well, I should say that I was not aware of this limit !
It is true that having 10'000 songs aboard, with you, could be seen as a kind of "funny" !
..but, in my opinion, it does match well the fabulous cruising/long ride capability of this car.
02-21-2016, 05:06 AM
#224
Miserable Old Bastard
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
In my opinion, a pretty horrible news :
No more buttons, with probably a “gesture control” or a “washing machine” button !
Until when the legislator will address this problem ?
For my view, the “washing machine” car control ..is simply more dangerous than “texting and driving” !
I just had the experience of driving a rental Mercedes (the latest model of an E-Class) for a week and about 2’000 miles, and I can only report that using such car commands is really dangerous, as you have to have your attention thinking about where the command is, selecting and clicking (on the right exact place on the screen). Compared to that, texting while driving ..is simply safe !
I think it will last until a serious accident will raise, and the manufacturer will be sued. On such kind of case, I can only suppose that the responsibility will be very easily assigned to the car manufacturer of such stupid user interface !
How come this has not happened till today ???
No more buttons, with probably a “gesture control” or a “washing machine” button !
Until when the legislator will address this problem ?
For my view, the “washing machine” car control ..is simply more dangerous than “texting and driving” !
I just had the experience of driving a rental Mercedes (the latest model of an E-Class) for a week and about 2’000 miles, and I can only report that using such car commands is really dangerous, as you have to have your attention thinking about where the command is, selecting and clicking (on the right exact place on the screen). Compared to that, texting while driving ..is simply safe !
I think it will last until a serious accident will raise, and the manufacturer will be sued. On such kind of case, I can only suppose that the responsibility will be very easily assigned to the car manufacturer of such stupid user interface !
How come this has not happened till today ???
I do see potential liability problems with too many electronic gizmos. One of things I have always loved about 911's is that, while they have most everything I could want, they are still mostly analog for the important things.
04-06-2016, 08:34 AM
#225
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
..From e-Brake PCA news : The 2017 Porsche Panamera has been spied virtually undisguised in standard and Turbo guise.
http://www.motor1.com/news/61956/201...tandard-model/
Some of the photos posted on this site (total 21 !) for a “quick view” :
..No one from the interior yet !
http://www.motor1.com/news/61956/201...tandard-model/
Some of the photos posted on this site (total 21 !) for a “quick view” :
..No one from the interior yet !
