Rennaissance

jrjunior31, the white exterior with black wheels on the Panamera looks like a traveling course on aesthetics

The Macan is a sleek looking vehicle, but by most criteria the Panamera is in a class of its own.

Do you feel any feedback through the steering wheel when the clunks occur?

Skidmarkz

I'm in SF bay area too...I'm interested in checking out your car if you have the time.

Skidmarkz

I have PDCC on mine, but haven't really driven the equivalent car without it. But I have read (On macanforum) that people say the Panny GTS feels like a big boat...mine is the opposite and feels razor sharp.

Rennaissance

Agreed - I've heard that about the Cayenne, too. So I went with the PDCC on mine. In sports mode it is on rails.

Still, intuition dictates that it should make less of a difference for a low riding vehicle like the Panny.

jrjunior31

Rennaissance, thank you, I'm very happy with the look, gotten some nice compliments as well. I have the GTS Black/Carmine Alcantara interior. I had the Garnet full leather on the Macan which was very nice. The red makes the carbon fiber really pop out and you get ventilated seats, but the GTS/Carmine has more deviated stitching which makes the seats and doors look better. Also it's funny but here in LA White/Red combo cars are absolutely everywhere now, I'm pretty happy with the GTS interior as it's more unique.

To answer your question, I may have had a little feedback through the steering wheel on the clunks but not positive, I'll have to pay more attention to it. I don't remember any knocking sounds over speed bumps like Skidmarkz reported though. My issue is mostly while backing out of a spot and/or as you turn the wheel to then pulll forward. It's much worse on wet roads and also may be affected more by the cold.

I don't have PDCC and the car feels "floaty/boaty" to me in Comfort mode and even somewhat in Sport PASM. Sport+ PASM however feels like it transforms the whole car. Suspension goes into full lock-down mode, inspiring tremendous confidence. I drive in Sport mostly so far though since Sport+ is so low I'm worried about scraping the front end around town. I already did it once on a friend's driveway. The paint is chipped underneath and there are some scuff marks. It's not noticeable unless you are essentially laying on the ground looking for it but still frustrating nonetheless. I do frequently raise the car when going into driveways but in Sport mode I can get away without having to raise it up so often.

Skidmarkz

That could be one of the big differences with having PDCC - I always leave PASM in full comfort and the car feels razor sharp in corners but amazingly smooth on highway cruises. After feeling how stiff the sport plus PASM mode is, I wouldn't use it on the street.

AndrewP

No comparison dynamically between the Macan and Cayenne with the PGTS IMO. No PDCC on mine and in sport suspension mode, Sport not necessary, the car corners beautifully, especially on my summer MPS tires with my Panamera Sport wheels. Winter tire and Turbo II wheel setup is obviously not as stout in corners. My perspective is from track experience at Barber MSP in a PGTS and a PTTS as well as in my 991 TTS (with PDCC) on several tracks. The PGTS is a sports car with four doors. Design is obviously subjective, but mine looks better to me all the time. I have the GTS black Alcantera Carmine Red interior, which I believe is the most attractive on any Panamera. On the highway the PGTS in comfort mode or sport mode tracks much better and is at least as as compliant as the S Class, A8 or 7 Series.

Also, the Panamera is a polarizing car, so expect people either to love it or hate it. There is nothing else like it.

GVA-SFO

I have no experience at all with PDCC.
But, I do have good experience on Air Suspension. (i.e.: 110k miles with a former Cayenne S, 33k miles with the current Panamera 4S, and recently an HORRIBLE experience of 4k miles with our current Cayenne Turbo. Our Cayenne Turbo (native air suspension, no PCCC) is horribly uncomfortable, after having done such long comfy rides with the former CS, we NEVER use the CTT for anything else than local errands, ..moving the boat and pulling the Boxster when I do not go to track on "wheels" !

The Panamera is a flying carpet, and long ride with it are just first class comfy travels. To give you a comp. about the feeling of our CTT rides, ..I simply feel that it is worse (stiffer) than my “fun/track” car, a Boxster S that has PSS9 on each corners, ..and Nitto NT01 tires !
And, I can insure you that my Boxster is ..REAL STIFF !
But, according to my understanding, I do not think that PDCC would do any things on comfyness, it should only kept the car strictly horizontal, what ever is the way, ..you drive it. Do I'm right assuming that ?

Back to the Panamera, I NEVER had a “feel of a boat” with the Panamera (4S, with air suspension). Long ride are always in “Comfort mode”, and quite often I’m in Sport Plus, forcing back the suspension (one press after sport plus) to be in Comfort ! (Sport plus on "engine" and comfort on suspension : yes, very strange setting, but, if you need to make a quick pass while doing long rides, I like this mix !)
I just had a 2’000 miles travel with the latest model of a Mercedes E class, (rental) and, to my feeling, it is much less comfy and a bit boaty, compared to a Panamera.

Now, one thing is very clear : TIRES ARE VERY IMPORTANT in the feeling/handling.

I still feel that the culprit of our CTT uncomfyness could be the Continental M+S !
I simply hate these tires anyway. (Change is on plan, will see !)

Btw, in the previous Cayenne, I had Michelin Diamaris as OEM delivered (on 20 Sport Techno wheel, 9 wide front, 10 wide rear), and then, had Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta on all successive mounts (any one good for about 20k miles).
The Vred are in my opinion much better than the M-Diamaris, that tend to do “tracking” in the roads that have “riding groves”, and also become noisy after half life. The Vred never do that up to end of life, and are better on rain than the Michelin. Imo, they were the best for a Cayenne. (Not manufactured anymore, they may come back, will see.)
I had all the latest mount staggered, i.e.: 275/40 front and 315/35 rear (that makes same exact circumference, a total must for the central diff.) and, this was perfect. A lot of stability increase, particularly when towing (a quite heavy boat (6’000 Lbs !!) and ..I did few times long towing rides, i.e.: San Francisco to Newport Beach !!

In the Panamera, I kept since day one Pirelli P Zero, and keep putting back these, that feel so good. It is true that they are not the best for mileage, but handling is so good.
After more than 33k miles, my opinion on Panamera 4S, air suspension and PZero is quite clear : By far the best handling car that I ever drove.
My plan for replacement is a Panamera Turbo, skipping the GTS, as beside the bad suspension/tires (?) of our CTT, I’m super impress with the engine.
This V8, with turbos, is just amazing, and when you are on “sport mode”, it is just incredible. Sure, 500hp (or more on the boost) for a daily, it just miles with smiles, with a 100% warranty !

I still love 911 like I did during more than 30 years, the last ones (BUT NOT THE ONE COMING THAT ARE TURBO), being for my eyes, ..a great and very beautiful, probably still the best, sport car ever made, but still, I stay firmly convinced that a 911 is a compromise car (engine on the wrong place, thus, enabling to have a good cabin with two additional seats)
Btw, that makes me looking at any GT3 (or GT2) as a non sense car, as way to much difficult to drive (at the limits). Why the hell putting the engine on the wrong place, to put a cage on the back and remove the rear seats ??

All to say that I will NOT go back to 911, and after almost 3 years, I much-much prefer to have a Panamera and an old Boxster (S) than any 911.
The Boxster is SO GREAT on track, and it is so much enjoyment to drive it close to the limit, i.e.: ..v.s. a 911 !
I did wrote it already, with a 911, if you do not brake (before every curves of a track), at the EXACT braking point, good bye to your lap time ! As you have to trigger your turn with a 911, when the brake pressure is still to the max, ..ie.: the weight is all in the front. Any release of braking pressure (..i.e.: needed if you did brake a little too early) before triggering your turn, means that a good part of the weight is already back were it has been originally put (in the back) !! ..and your turn is just going to be very very far to optimal.
Now, for sure, if you can tell me that all your braking points are always absolutely exact (at the meter !), then, OK, you are a very fast and very great driver with a 911, but, frankly, this is not my case, and with the age, even less ! As, it is true that I tend to brake “a bit too early” !

Yes, (for me) a Panamera on daily, and a Boxster on fun/track, ..is much more smiles/mile than one 911 !

Rennaissance

Very useful answers, thank you all. The consensus seems that getting the PDCC is not as key as pressing the sport button Still a positive feature, just not as critical as air+PASM.

GVA-SFO, is it possible to temporarily try swapping wheels from your Panamera to the CTT, to see if the ride improves? ...just in case you haven't entertained this idea yet.

I'm sorry that the application of your Cayenne is so limited, especially since you love the engine.

The concept of 911 vs Panamera + mid-rear-engine car is a revelation for me. More fun, more car and more adaptability for an equivalent initial cost. I like bulletproof arguments in favor of another Porsche in the garage

GVA-SFO

Let me answer to you with a photo :



These are 4 “spare” Panamera RS Spyder wheel, staggered, that are in a “little corner” in my garage !
The truth is that I’m in contact with Group-A Wheels, the Vredestein US Importer, as I learnt that the old “SUV Ultrac Sessanta” that I liked very much, and have been replaced by “Ultrac Vorti”, should make a come back, and this, without the “SUV” letters ! (Good for any cars, being a "ultra high performances tire".)
So, I bought already a set of Panamera wheels (….I just hope they will fit ????) of the RS Spyder type, staggered. (I do have also RS Spyder type on the Cayenne, but these, also 20”, are not staggered, they are all, front and rear, 9”.)
I’m waiting, as I learnt that Vred should deliver again the Ultrac Sessanta, to get a set of 275/40 (front) and 315/35 (rear) and remove my horrible Continental M+S, ..that seems to have been made with wood instead of the juice of wood !!

But, the problem is that in the last message received was “not arrived yet, no news about !!”

So, I may look for another brand, and be ready for trying on the Cayenne, and, if by “accident”, they will not fit the Cayenne, I will have a set of spare for the Panamera, no big deal !

GVA-SFO

Yes, the BIG question for me is : Is it because of the tires, or is it because of a problem that my dealer cannot find on the air suspension ??

In the mean time our Cayenne is what we would say in French a “Tape Cul”.
(extremely uncomfortable)

GVA-SFO

Yes, I discover this few month after buying the Panamera.
What is great, is that you can buy an old Boxster S (go for an S, not a "base"), for quite a low amount of US$. I paid 13k for mine, that is a 2001, with 60k miles.

And you have a fabulous "fun" car.
Sure, then, I spent some $ on improvements, (and also on maintenance) but, the car is real great.
If you are curious about what I did with mine, take a look at the topic "PIWIS reading, R1 and R2, then what ??" under the "986" chapter.
here : https://rennlist.com/forums/boxster-...then-what.html

GVA-SFO

Panamera front "hollow klong" noises news :

After some discussions with the dealer, I would say “Thanks and happy to be still under CPO”.
My car had the following parts replaced :

. Left upper control arm
. Left lower control arm
. Right upper control arm
. Right lower control arm
. Sway bar front, end links, left and right

Got the car back and after a small amount of miles, I would say that all look to be back as it should be, or, very happy, work well done.
Will do a long ride this end of the week (about > 1’000 miles) and this should be a good test, but in the mean time, all looks good.

GVA-SFO

In my opinion, a pretty horrible news :



No more buttons, with probably a “gesture control” or a “washing machine” button !

Until when the legislator will address this problem ?
For my view, the “washing machine” car control ..is simply more dangerous than “texting and driving” !

I just had the experience of driving a rental Mercedes (the latest model of an E-Class) for a week and about 2’000 miles, and I can only report that using such car commands is really dangerous, as you have to have your attention thinking about where the command is, selecting and clicking (on the right exact place on the screen). Compared to that, texting while driving ..is simply safe !

I think it will last until a serious accident will raise, and the manufacturer will be sued. On such kind of case, I can only suppose that the responsibility will be very easily assigned to the car manufacturer of such stupid user interface !
How come this has not happened till today ???

GVA-SFO

To be back on the “hollow clunk” front noise, I just did again a “GT” use, (..or close to 2’000 miles in 4 days), and be very happy that the noises are gone.

It looks clear that the front bushing were the source of the problem.
Good to have the car back in perfect handling shape.

With the six years, (not the 100’000 miles, ..this time !) The Panamera approaching the end of the CPO.
So, time to look for a new one. And, for sure, I have no, but really none, envy to wait for the “2017” model. (See my above comment !)
I think I will go for a Turbo, instead of a 4S with air suspension. I’m normally a “V8 NA” fan, but, I should say that when I hate the suspension of our Cayenne Turbo (I still do not know if it is because of the tires or because of a PASM problem), I would say, that I love the engine.
So, will see, time will tell !