Good bye 911 (after 30 year non stop), hello Panamera !
11-04-2015, 03:39 PM
#183
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Thread Starter
With the victory of the 919 in Shanghai last Sunday, Porsche has now the 2015 title in the pocket! Not a “lot” of competitors but, quite a performance to beat the (Audi e-Tron) cousins, who were present for many years, with a lot of wins ..before the arrival of the Porsche 919.
Should I say (again) that I’m not a “V4 fan”, but this car is equipped with an incredible amount of technology that makes it simply the best !
A lot of Kudos to the team that was able to create this winner from a “white page” in such a short time, this is a demo of technical competencies at a very high level.
To my view, the Kudos goes specially to Alexander Hitzinger and his team. Dr. Hitzinger was hired by Porsche to create a car that can win the WEC, and Alex did it more than very well, kudos Alex.
Should I say (again) that I’m not a “V4 fan”, but this car is equipped with an incredible amount of technology that makes it simply the best !
A lot of Kudos to the team that was able to create this winner from a “white page” in such a short time, this is a demo of technical competencies at a very high level.
To my view, the Kudos goes specially to Alexander Hitzinger and his team. Dr. Hitzinger was hired by Porsche to create a car that can win the WEC, and Alex did it more than very well, kudos Alex.
11-11-2015, 08:07 AM
#185
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Thread Starter
Confirmations about Audi new models :
See : http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-...coming-to-u-s/
Very clearly, beside the Audi R8 that now offer a "plus" model with 602hp, (more than any 911 !) in the high end/high power 4 doors models, Audi offer in the US market two other "4 doors sport" models with more than 600hp.
To me, it looks like these are the effects of the Ferdinand Piësch former VW group management, that "pushes" Audi up and kept Porsche well "under Audi" performances level.
This men was a brilliant engineer, but has been psychologically seriously hit being a descendant of Porsche family but not carrying the Porsche name.
So sad story, poor guy.
By the way, he had the reputation of knowing the brand of the screwdrivers that are used by every workers in the VW and Audi assembly lines, so, ..I have hard time to think that he did not know about the "details" of the software of the Diesel cars !
See : http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-...coming-to-u-s/
Very clearly, beside the Audi R8 that now offer a "plus" model with 602hp, (more than any 911 !) in the high end/high power 4 doors models, Audi offer in the US market two other "4 doors sport" models with more than 600hp.
To me, it looks like these are the effects of the Ferdinand Piësch former VW group management, that "pushes" Audi up and kept Porsche well "under Audi" performances level.
This men was a brilliant engineer, but has been psychologically seriously hit being a descendant of Porsche family but not carrying the Porsche name.
So sad story, poor guy.
By the way, he had the reputation of knowing the brand of the screwdrivers that are used by every workers in the VW and Audi assembly lines, so, ..I have hard time to think that he did not know about the "details" of the software of the Diesel cars !
11-11-2015, 11:18 AM
#186
Audi S8 Plus
Confirmations about Audi new models :
See : http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-...coming-to-u-s/
Very clearly, beside the Audi R8 that now offer a "plus" model with 602hp, (more than any 911 !) in the high end/high power 4 doors models, Audi offer in the US market two other "4 doors sport" models with more than 600hp.
To me, it looks like these are the effects of the Ferdinand Piësch former VW group management, that "pushes" Audi up and kept Porsche well "under Audi" performances level.
This men was a brilliant engineer, but has been psychologically seriously hit being a descendant of Porsche family but not carrying the Porsche name.
So sad story, poor guy.
By the way, he had the reputation of knowing the brand of the screwdrivers that are used by every workers in the VW and Audi assembly lines, so, ..I have hard time to think that he did not know about the "details" of the software of the Diesel cars !
See : http://www.motortrend.com/news/audi-...coming-to-u-s/
Very clearly, beside the Audi R8 that now offer a "plus" model with 602hp, (more than any 911 !) in the high end/high power 4 doors models, Audi offer in the US market two other "4 doors sport" models with more than 600hp.
To me, it looks like these are the effects of the Ferdinand Piësch former VW group management, that "pushes" Audi up and kept Porsche well "under Audi" performances level.
This men was a brilliant engineer, but has been psychologically seriously hit being a descendant of Porsche family but not carrying the Porsche name.
So sad story, poor guy.
By the way, he had the reputation of knowing the brand of the screwdrivers that are used by every workers in the VW and Audi assembly lines, so, ..I have hard time to think that he did not know about the "details" of the software of the Diesel cars !
Having seen the Mission E, I may wait for it and guess that it will be available as an '18 in late '17 or maybe a year later.
, but would be worth the wait. of course, it will be priced up with Pan Turbo S or maybe more and charging stations scarce at 800 volts, but it will be a Porsche through and through. Love the 918-ish front end and the 911 cues overall.
01-08-2016, 11:29 PM
#187
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, increasing the mileage, with this incredible nice car, ..but, also increase the “thunk” noises from the front end !
Reading the (great) posts about front end and soldering quality, I do start to have worries !
We are “really” driving the car, (just did another San Francisco – Los Angeles and back), and safety is a concern.
When talking to my dealer (Rector, Burlingame), message is “these noises are just normal” !!!
Did you read this text ?
Typical Panamera front end noise and clunks – What should you do?
When it is cold and when you go over driveway entrance or speed bump, make sharp turns, does the car make awful creaking and clunking? When you make a sharp turn with the front wheels turn at full angle, the suspension sounds like it’s about to just fall out?
It seems that a lot of Porsche Panameras out there experience front end noises in cold weather climates. Even cars with 20K miles experienced same symptoms. Somehow original Porsche “bushings” are very weak and should be replaced with updated parts.
Yes, it is a common issue for a Panamera at every dealership and they are aware of these manufacturing defects. Usually dealers go through multiple trial and error steps (i.e., change the bushings, change the control arms, adjust the sway bar, etc), in order to nail down the issue or at least get it to be where it’s not as noticeable. Dealers usually try to brush off this problem and they tell you that its normal on these cars. DO NOT listen to their poor excuses. Make them change all the parts listed below.
What you must replace?
Complete front end retorqe including Sub-frame (every nut and bolt)
Upper control arms (both sides) – bushings crack – Part has been updated since 2010
Lower control arms (both sides) – bushings crack – Part has been updated since 2010
Front Sway bar bushings
Front sway bar end links
Full alignment
** Most likely if dealer will try to replace only some of these – your noise will still be there.
All your noises: creak/groan over speed bumps and a dull, hollow, clunk/thud when going over bumps at speed should be all gone now.
If dealer cant help you and doesn’t want to replace these parts – just call PCNA (Porsche of North America)
Btw, this text come from here:
http://www.insanegarage.com/panamera...nter-bushings/
Reading the (great) posts about front end and soldering quality, I do start to have worries !
We are “really” driving the car, (just did another San Francisco – Los Angeles and back), and safety is a concern.
When talking to my dealer (Rector, Burlingame), message is “these noises are just normal” !!!
Did you read this text ?
Typical Panamera front end noise and clunks – What should you do?
When it is cold and when you go over driveway entrance or speed bump, make sharp turns, does the car make awful creaking and clunking? When you make a sharp turn with the front wheels turn at full angle, the suspension sounds like it’s about to just fall out?
It seems that a lot of Porsche Panameras out there experience front end noises in cold weather climates. Even cars with 20K miles experienced same symptoms. Somehow original Porsche “bushings” are very weak and should be replaced with updated parts.
Yes, it is a common issue for a Panamera at every dealership and they are aware of these manufacturing defects. Usually dealers go through multiple trial and error steps (i.e., change the bushings, change the control arms, adjust the sway bar, etc), in order to nail down the issue or at least get it to be where it’s not as noticeable. Dealers usually try to brush off this problem and they tell you that its normal on these cars. DO NOT listen to their poor excuses. Make them change all the parts listed below.
What you must replace?
Complete front end retorqe including Sub-frame (every nut and bolt)
Upper control arms (both sides) – bushings crack – Part has been updated since 2010
Lower control arms (both sides) – bushings crack – Part has been updated since 2010
Front Sway bar bushings
Front sway bar end links
Full alignment
** Most likely if dealer will try to replace only some of these – your noise will still be there.
All your noises: creak/groan over speed bumps and a dull, hollow, clunk/thud when going over bumps at speed should be all gone now.
If dealer cant help you and doesn’t want to replace these parts – just call PCNA (Porsche of North America)
Btw, this text come from here:
http://www.insanegarage.com/panamera...nter-bushings/
01-14-2016, 07:14 AM
#188
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Thanks for a great thread, many great points and interesting observations.
Your comments helped me decide on our next P car. Actually P cars
I was thinking about the 911 but I think that you are right - it really is a compromise. You say that one reason are the rear seats... I think that the reason is really just historical, maybe I can call it 'ceremonial'. P has an established product, prefers to change what is beneath the surface (air cooled naturally aspirated engine) than an obvious feature.
Otherwise we would have a top of the line flagship sports car with the optimal engine position. Not a practical car which also tries to be a race monster
Now my dilemma is this: how to tell my wife that we're getting two new cars. Wish I could say something like: "If you learn stick shift on B/C, you will get a stick shift Panamera "
I can't really tell her "If you learn stick shift on the Boxster/Cayman, you will get a Panamera with a PDK" !
Onto the VW emissions issue, environment and California Air Resources Board... I apologize beforehand for writing mostly generalized opinions and with emotion but this topic really gets to me.
Can I call it "hypocrisy in politics"? Should I say "raging bureaucrats"? I would just be repeating what everybody already knows. In the 1990s the California Air Resources Board "forced" automakers to develop EV vehicles which they were not allowed to sell! When the automakers complained, CARB told them to scrap the programmes and absorb the costs.
If the CARBs weren't people, I would ask what to do with such an arrogant species? Maybe display it in the zoo for others to learn from, but then again they are so costly to upkeep and they hide in the back all the time, at least until journalists turn up and it's chance for their 15 minutes of fame...
An interesting fact is that the CARB is the ONLY "authority" in the World to have REJECTED the VW recall plan. Even the EPA is essentially a tacit bystander. VW's recall is good enough for Canada, China, Germany, UK, and for many countries which compete with Germany's automakers; but NOT for California...? Give me a break!
The CARB has a monopoly on regulation and it seems to me that they are abusing their monopoly power for ceremonial reasons.
BTW your photo of the coal burning power plant... Have you seen one of those waste burning plants? Some of them run on wood chips from Canada. But that would be "fossil fuel" so the chips must first be shipped to Europe, where they are requalified as waste. Only then they can be imported back to the Americas and burnt.
Sounds like a lot of natural calories are being burnt... Lots of carbohydrates... Maybe that's what CARBs stands for???
Sorry to go completely off topic but here's a personal experience with "environmental regulators". They don't care if you install floodlights to shine onto your solar panels at night, and then sell the power to the grid at a profit. They don't care because it helps them meet their energy targets for green production.
I don't know about others but to me it sounds absurd, suboptimal and undemocratic. Kind of like a bi-turbo 4-cylinder...
Your comments helped me decide on our next P car. Actually P cars
I was thinking about the 911 but I think that you are right - it really is a compromise. You say that one reason are the rear seats... I think that the reason is really just historical, maybe I can call it 'ceremonial'. P has an established product, prefers to change what is beneath the surface (air cooled naturally aspirated engine) than an obvious feature.
Otherwise we would have a top of the line flagship sports car with the optimal engine position. Not a practical car which also tries to be a race monster
Now my dilemma is this: how to tell my wife that we're getting two new cars. Wish I could say something like: "If you learn stick shift on B/C, you will get a stick shift Panamera "
I can't really tell her "If you learn stick shift on the Boxster/Cayman, you will get a Panamera with a PDK" !
Onto the VW emissions issue, environment and California Air Resources Board... I apologize beforehand for writing mostly generalized opinions and with emotion but this topic really gets to me.
Can I call it "hypocrisy in politics"? Should I say "raging bureaucrats"? I would just be repeating what everybody already knows. In the 1990s the California Air Resources Board "forced" automakers to develop EV vehicles which they were not allowed to sell! When the automakers complained, CARB told them to scrap the programmes and absorb the costs.
If the CARBs weren't people, I would ask what to do with such an arrogant species? Maybe display it in the zoo for others to learn from, but then again they are so costly to upkeep and they hide in the back all the time, at least until journalists turn up and it's chance for their 15 minutes of fame...
An interesting fact is that the CARB is the ONLY "authority" in the World to have REJECTED the VW recall plan. Even the EPA is essentially a tacit bystander. VW's recall is good enough for Canada, China, Germany, UK, and for many countries which compete with Germany's automakers; but NOT for California...? Give me a break!
The CARB has a monopoly on regulation and it seems to me that they are abusing their monopoly power for ceremonial reasons.
BTW your photo of the coal burning power plant... Have you seen one of those waste burning plants? Some of them run on wood chips from Canada. But that would be "fossil fuel" so the chips must first be shipped to Europe, where they are requalified as waste. Only then they can be imported back to the Americas and burnt.
Sounds like a lot of natural calories are being burnt... Lots of carbohydrates... Maybe that's what CARBs stands for???
Sorry to go completely off topic but here's a personal experience with "environmental regulators". They don't care if you install floodlights to shine onto your solar panels at night, and then sell the power to the grid at a profit. They don't care because it helps them meet their energy targets for green production.
I don't know about others but to me it sounds absurd, suboptimal and undemocratic. Kind of like a bi-turbo 4-cylinder...
01-14-2016, 09:06 AM
#189
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Anyways, sorry about the long rant... OK back to the topic!
First, did you get all the bushings and end links replaced at the dealer?
The 2017 Panamera does look a little longer, visually. Eventhough it's just longer wheelbase.
Should we expect wheel extensions as a free option? Would help even more with CAFE...
The rear lights look like they're going to extend inwards - Macan style. The front auxiliary LEDs leave interesting reflections in the glass pane... that's not really the case with the current model. I quite like this effect.
Pricing on the car will be interesting to study. Sales ARE down this year. Just Panamera and the Cayman/Boxster. All other models are up year-on-year. Could this be due to the Macan?
First, did you get all the bushings and end links replaced at the dealer?
The 2017 Panamera does look a little longer, visually. Eventhough it's just longer wheelbase.
Should we expect wheel extensions as a free option? Would help even more with CAFE...
The rear lights look like they're going to extend inwards - Macan style. The front auxiliary LEDs leave interesting reflections in the glass pane... that's not really the case with the current model. I quite like this effect.
Pricing on the car will be interesting to study. Sales ARE down this year. Just Panamera and the Cayman/Boxster. All other models are up year-on-year. Could this be due to the Macan?
Last edited by Rennaissance; 01-14-2016 at 09:26 AM.
01-14-2016, 08:41 PM
#190
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, I'm currently driving an Audi A4, courtesy of my dealer, as the Panamera will have right lower and upper arms changed (including bushings) !
It looks like changing arms is the way they do, to not take the time to remove and re-insert bushings !!
Crazy times !
As the ("klongs") noise is very strong from the right, at this second, the left side will stay as is, which is something that I do not like at all !
..not really politically correct, "right" ?
More to come by the end of this week !
01-15-2016, 12:33 PM
#191
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GVA, earlier in your insightful & informative thread you mention that the air suspension and PASM are a must in the Panamera. Do you have a (similar) opinion on PDCC?
01-15-2016, 03:13 PM
#192
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Hi, GVA-SFO, thank you for posting this thread about your Panamera. I have recently purchased a '15 PGTS. I got it as a demo with 400 miles. Currently I have under 2K miles. This is my second Porsche (Macan S) and it's a huge step up. Of course it stickers out at 60K more so I guess this goes without saying. I am really enjoying the NA-V8 as opposed to the TT6 in the Macan. I noticed the front end suspension clunks from day 1 and read some threads about it including the one you posted. Other P-cars have had similar issues and some believe it's the tires slipping. On mine it does seem to be the tires as it gets much worse on wet roads. Full (or close to full) wheel lock low speed maneuvering, backing out of driveways etc. as you mentioned, is where at always happens. Not sure if our issues are different. Here are a few pics and I look forward to hearing more from you and others about their Panameras!
01-15-2016, 04:30 PM
#194
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'15 PGTS has a 4.8L V-8 not sure where you're getting your information from. Lower trim levels have the V-6. Below is a printout from Edmunds...
2015 Porsche Panamera GTS Hatchback
Luxury vehicle
Model: 2015 Porsche Panamera
MSRP: $113,400
MPG: 16 city / 24 highway
Horsepower: 440 HP
Towing capacity: 4,850 lbs
Engine: 4.8L V8
Curb weight: 4,244 lbs
Fuel tank capacity: 26.4 gal
2015 Porsche Panamera GTS Hatchback
Luxury vehicle
Model: 2015 Porsche Panamera
MSRP: $113,400
MPG: 16 city / 24 highway
Horsepower: 440 HP
Towing capacity: 4,850 lbs
Engine: 4.8L V8
Curb weight: 4,244 lbs
Fuel tank capacity: 26.4 gal
01-15-2016, 07:13 PM
#195
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Hi, GVA-SFO, thank you for posting this thread about your Panamera. I have recently purchased a '15 PGTS. I got it as a demo with 400 miles. Currently I have under 2K miles. This is my second Porsche (Macan S) and it's a huge step up. Of course it stickers out at 60K more so I guess this goes without saying. I am really enjoying the NA-V8 as opposed to the TT6 in the Macan. I noticed the front end suspension clunks from day 1 and read some threads about it including the one you posted. Other P-cars have had similar issues and some believe it's the tires slipping. On mine it does seem to be the tires as it gets much worse on wet roads. Full (or close to full) wheel lock low speed maneuvering, backing out of driveways etc. as you mentioned, is where at always happens. Not sure if our issues are different. Here are a few pics and I look forward to hearing more from you and others about their Panameras!