Panaseeya

Any word on what's wrong?

GVA-SFO

No, I got the car back yesterday, and today did 650 miles, all good and fine.
The interesting point is that: it is known that if the coolant level is going on the low side, then the water temp gauge goes to the roof and the red light blinks !
Yes, this is quite stupid, as IMO, a temp gauge must do nothing else than showing the temp!!!

Now, I have no leak, so, why I lost one quart of coolant since the last service ???
Thats a question.

And for the message about the pressure gauge going out, nothing was found either!
For this one, I should say that I had it a real lot of time with my last 996, and we never found the source !

GVA-SFO

Well, just added another 950 miles to the 650 above, ..and all is fine.
Frankly, I do not know about a better GT (doing a lot of miles) ..than this Panamera, truly amazing comfort and performances. Over 1'600 miles this past week.

Well, ..when I said "all is fine", I should have written all was fine.
Letting the car "cool down", and, the next morning, when engine was cold, I removed the water coolant cap, in order to visualize the level, ..to find that I was the the "lowest" position (AGAIN) !!
Not as bad to have the water temp gauge going to the roof, but enough to be on the minimum position on the reading !
So, first I added Smart Water (looking nice, no ?) to be back on the middle (normal), to see that this time half of a quart went in !
And call the dealer to mention 1/2 quart for 1600 miles, and ask: Is this a leak or is this "normal" ?

Response being "not normal", the car is back to dealer again, or, another VERY STRONG MESSAGE : Thank you (big time) that my car is under CPO.
Waiting to learn ..where this water is going !
We have a very serious drought in California, or, ..water is anyway a very important asset, to keep preciously.

GVA-SFO

By the way, I forgot to mention, during this last trip, last tank refill and then : refill again 602 miles later !
Yes, 25 gallons good to go for more than 600 miles !!!! (with a 2 tons AWD car, equipped with a V8.)
This means that the gas cost per mile is around 13 cents !

Frankly, I do not understand why looking to try to lower this number some more.
Think about the cost of the car itself, the depreciation (car purchase cost less car selling price divided by miles driven), will give you something like 60 to 70 cents per mile, on the least you can do (I think it is very easy to go over one US$/mile, depending how much time you keep it, ..and how many miles you drive it).
Why the hell would you care about a difference of 3 cent per mile cost, when you buy a car that has a depreciation that will cost you at least 60 to 70 cents per mile to drive it ?
(Sure, not counting the tires, or, about 2k for about 20k miles, i.e.: 10 cents/mile, nor insurances, maintenance, and etc..)
There is just no doubt that the depreciation is the largest of these costs of usage.

Instead of spending millions in R&D to reduce the gas cost for about half a peanut, I would propose to "P" to think about how they can make some savings (like stopping to make researches on turbo engines (joke), and continue to sale the current cars a bit longer per design cycles), ..and sell them for a lower price !
..This would let the end-user (us) being able to save MUCH MORE ..than few peanuts of the gas consumption !

Or, just some more words to clearly say that I simply do not understand why going for a V6 turbo to show some lower numbers, i.e.: 2 or 3 cents !
May be, with the big slow down of the Panamera sales (i.e.: less 35% in comp last month v.s. the same month a year ago) would let "the marketing" people at Porsche that there are in a complete wrong way offering now a 4S with a 6 turbo. But, with the time going, I just think, that there is simply no one occupying such a position at P !



Anyway, I would like to say : "Kudos" Porsche, I suppose you are proud for your current results for the sales of The Panamera !
It is (may be I should say, it WAS, talking about the 4S), the BEST car of the market, and by far, but instead of providing the best Marketing support to it, ..you just did the opposite. It looks to me that it seems that you prefer to resell (and may be make more money ?) the "rebranded Audi Q5" !
What a pain (for me, being a "P" customer since more than 30 years) !

GVA-SFO

Well, water coolant, problem found : the thermostat housing was leaking !
Changed.
Seems to be a "known" problem. They changed the design to solve the problem.
Thanks a LOT again to CPO.

GVA-SFO

A dream Panamera for sale in this moment !
This is a “S” with 27’800 miles for about 60’000 US$ !

See :



Normaly, Carugati Automobile is a great place to find a great Ferrari (true, since about 30 years), but it is also an official “P” (for Pagani) dealer !

Why I LOVE this car : (look at the shifter, ..or count the pedals !)



The link is here :
http://www.carugati.ch/en/offres/por...anamera-s-4-8/

PS : About Carugati Automobiles, just for the fun, do you know another place in this World where you can see more Pagani in one shoot ?
see: (photo dated 2013, 6 (yes, six) Zonda present !!!!!!

GVA-SFO

Congratulations Porsche, you are respecting us (your customers) very well.

Just reading the beautiful progresses of the new 911, that with the turbos, it becomes a more complex car, and therefore it will cost more that US$ 5’000 than the previous ones.

OK, you are right, it has a much better efficiency, so, we should all be very happy !

Ah, ..just some simple computing : if the new car will save us 2 liters per 100 km, (yeah, a big decrease !!)
With that, over the life time of our car, or, may be, let’s say, i.e.: 100’000 kms, we will be able to save 2’000 liters, ..or about 530 gallons of gas.
Yes, really incredible, ..as, this should be a saving of about 1’600 US$ !

Or: turning the 911 N/A to Turbos, will cost us more than 5k, to save 1.6k !
Really beautiful, thank you Porsche, you are the best.

The more the time goes, the more I think that the best cars to buy for tomorrow, ..are the cars of the past !
I.e.: no one is better than Singer, my real Kudos goes to Rob Dickinson.

TTCarrera

Instead of continuously b!tching at Porsche, please tell us how you would comply with the impending 2018, very strict, worldwide increased emissions and mileage requirements.

Oh, and without decreasing horsepower.

Thanks in advance.

Gus_Smedstad

Exactly. Many of Porsche's competitors pay the Gas Guzzler Tax here in the US, and Porsche doesn't, because they've managed to keep the fuel efficiency of even the normally aspirated cars above it so far.

Similarly, there's a penalty if a manufacturer's aggregate model line up doesn't comply with the Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE, and it's a standard that is steadily climbing year after year. It's a complicated calculation that doesn't precisely track with the sticker MPG, since it includes various credits and uses a different, earlier test suite. In any case, there are reasons Porsche is doing what it's doing, and it's not just to irritate GVA-SFO. Though I'm sure that's a priority as well.

GVA-SFO

Yes, you are right, it does irritate me !
But, as it looks like I’m the only one, so, who care ?

Still, I’m very happy to see some reaction here, as such forums are “done for that”, right ?

You are right on the spot with the question, or : Do you prefer to pay taxes to have a car that has a power handling that you really love, or, ..It looks like you do much prefer to pay a premium (to the car manufacturer) and get a car that has a turbo lagged handling ?
(I think we all agree that MPG is irrelevant at this level.)

Up to what I can read, frankly for a car in that range of price, I’m curious to read such comment about what I would consider more like a kind of taxes allergy then be ready to pay the price (taxes included) to have a car with a lovely handling!

In the fly, about such “tax problem”: Do you think that starting in 2018, Ferrari will no longer offer cars with a V12, and/or with a flat crank V8 ?
(and go for V4 or V6 turbo)

I think, if the problem is to be green, then, instead of being “gray-green”, may be switching to Tesla should be the immediate best solution !
Btw, while being here, I would love to make another comment : if the 918 would be in my budget for a car, ..frankly, even as being a loyal Porsche fan, (and being a customer since more than 30 years, currently having 3 of them, i.e.: a Flat Six, a V8 and a V8 turbo), I would ***MUCH*** prefer buying a “two car pack” consisting of one Avantador and one Tesla P85D, ..than a 918 !
(And still make a substantial saving.)

And, one more today, about the VW group :

I also suppose you read in the news of the day, ..the arrival of the Bentley Bentaya
See for example :
http://www.wired.com/2015/09/bentley-bentayga-suv/

(W12, 6 liters, 600 hp)

This set another example about the VW group decisions about which brand produce what (just above, I was recently mentioning the latest Audi 4 doors offering 600HP).


Now, if you want to know my reading out of such facts, it is something like:
Porsche tried to acquire VW, and (for me, this was real too bad that it did not worked out), it end up the reverse, as we all know, ..that VW bought Porsche.
I simply think that Porsche is currently “paying” that dime to the VW group.

More accurately, Mr. Ferdinand Piësch, who was a very powerful person in all these decisions, (to VWising Porsche) was showing his real problem/deep frustration: Having a grandfa named Ferdinand Porsche, ..but carrying himself the name Piësch, not Porsche.

@TTCarrera, if you call that "b!tching at Porsche", frankly, I'm not sure we understand each other, ..as it is really the extreme opposite.
(Please accept all my excuses for my English.)

GVA-SFO

@TTCarrera, Now, to be constructive about your question:
(“How to go through the 2018 emissions and mileage requirements ?”

I see for example 2 solutions :

1) pay the taxes & punishing fees, re-bill these cost to customers.
2) as most of these new rules are based on the average of the prod by brand, build a cheap low emission car, (i.e.: like the Macan, but instead of getting a Q5 from cousin, get an A3, and resell sell it under the name of Porsche, with a very low emission hybridized power plant (i.e.: from the 919 !!), for a cheap amount, i.e.: to sell many, to raise to average.

Btw, Why do you think Aston Martin went to built the Cygnet ?



(Some brand (including “P”) even tried to sell bikes to add in the prod numbers with zero emission "vehicles", but, I’m not sure that did pass the bar for many years !)

Also very "funny" to see that Ford, to "save" the most successful "car" sold in the USA, i.e.: the F150 (first, with about 750'000 cars sold per year in the USA)
to "meet" CAFE the best, they enlarged it as one of the CAFE parameter, that REDUCES the taxes ..is the surface of the rectangle formed from the center of each wheels ! OR why these F150's or Toyota Tundra's ..are becoming "monsters". (the largest the surface of this rectangle is, the smaller the taxes become !

Being back on the topic, this should also let us understand why the next Panamera will have a longer wheelbase, while the overall length should remain the same !
(Btw, the comfort of the Panamera that is already fabulous, ..could probably become even better !)

Panaseeya

But it will probably increase the turning radius. I wouldn't like that.

GVA-SFO

Yes, you are right.

Btw, I always have been very impressed by the turning radius of the Cayenne !
(I enjoy this big time, ..when maneuvering with the (boat) trailer.)

GVA-SFO

For those that are thinking “Tesla”, ..it looks like “soon”, you will be able to stay with Porsche

After Tesla, Porsche go also with a VERY NICE design for an electric car.
(I have no idea why I feel that most of the others, ..are ugly !)

Gus_Smedstad

That's a concept car, the Mission E. It's definitely much sexier than the Panamera, but production cars rarely look like the concept cars. That is, if the production car actually sees the light of day, lots of car-show concept cars never turn into anything you can buy.

EDIT: I'm also struggling to find photos that aren't obvious computer renders. They announced it, but it's not clear that there are any actual physical mission E's on display anywhere.