prosper

Hi everybody,

I am sure you had read that Bob Lutz is challenging everybody who have "comparable" car to a timed lap against their CTS-V.

now I think the M5 is too old, the E63 is underpowered, the C63 hmmm do not handle well enough,
the M3... underpowered too,

so the only candidate that can win against the CTS-V is the Panamera Turbo....

according to the rules of the challenge (set by GM),
if someone is bringing professional driver,
they (GM) have the right to use pro driver too,
and if it is amateur,
Bob Lutz himself will be the driver of the CTS-V...

Porsche should sent Walter Rohl and Panamera Turbo into this challenge

here is the news:
http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...pplicants.html


Bob Lutz' CTS-V Throw-Down Draws 120 Applicants

By Daniel Pund | October 19, 2009




According to Cadillac about 120 people applied for a chance to beat Bob Lutz and his CTS-V sedan at the private Monticello Motor Club in upstate New York on October 29.

The deadline to apply for the CTS-V was last Friday. Don't think there will be 120 cars out at Monticello. It's Cadillac's party and it's setting the rules. Cadillac will choose about five or so from among the 120 applicants to compete in New York. How many of the applicants followed the basic tenets of the eligibility rules (stating that a competing car must be a unmodified four-door sedan of roughly the same ilk as the $60,000 CTS-V)?

According to Cadillac spokesman Nick Twork, "Honestly, about three-quarters of them were in the spirit of the contest. Of course, there were some like, 'I've got a Porsche GT3 RS blah, blah, blah.'"

Those who are chosen (a winnowing process that should be done tomorrow) will also get a chance to take the CTS-V around the course too. Already there are at least a few journalists/bloggers/automotive hangers-on planning on making the trip to Monticello.

And while this whole event/stunt began with a personal challenge from Bob Lutz in a conference call with media, GM will have professional racer and former GM engineer John Heinricy on-hand. According to Twork, "Heinricy will be used at the discretion of Mr. Lutz." In other words, GM will have its own ringer should any other competitor bring one.

It might be something of a publicity stunt, but as stunts go, having over-endowed sports sedans racing for time around a beautiful and demanding road course is a pretty decent stunt. For credibility's sake, one would hope Cadillac makes sure a Porsche Panamera, BMW M5, Mercedes-Benz E63 and/or C63 will be on the track.

Have a look at the CTS-V Challenge web site, even if it's too late for you to participate.
http://www.ctsvchallenge.com/

prosper

http://cadillac.gmblogs.com/2009/10/...win-in-action/


CTS-V
May the Best Car Win, in Action
By admin ⋅ October 13, 2009 ⋅ Post a comment
Filed Under Bob Lutz, CTS-V, Monticello

By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman

Last month, during a discussion with journalists about our “May the Best Car Win” marketing campaign, I was trying to get across just exactly what that theme means. And what it means is, of course, just what it says.

We have a lineup of vehicles that we think, if given a chance, can stack up with the best the rest of the automotive manufacturing world has to offer. One of the examples I cited was the Cadillac CTS-V, and I went so far as to challenge the journalists to find a stock production sedan on the planet that could outperform the CTS-V on the track. I proposed a track duel, “run what ya brung,” at a time and place to be determined.

Well, that time and place has been determined. The guys at Jalopnik.com were the first ones to respond to the challenge, quickly and most enthusiastically, but I suspect there will be more. We’ll be having a full racetrack challenge October 29 at the Monticello Motor Club in Monticello, N.Y., not far from the New York City area.

And I put the challenge out to you. If you own a car comparable to the Cadillac CTS-V (a 4-door production stock sport sedan) and you want to match up against me and the Cadillac, you can join us at Monticello. Follow the link here to fill out an application. From the list of applicants we’ll select several challengers to join us for the V-Series Challenge.

As I said in the previous chat, we’re going to take away every last excuse people have not to consider our products. We know that some consumers still think Cadillac cars do not have the top-end performance they believe the German luxury cars have. The development objective of the 556-hp Cadillac CTS- V was to create the world’s best high-performance sedan. In final testing, the car lapped the legendary Nurburgring in 7:59.32, fastest ever for a production sedan (recently eclipsed, reportedly, by Porsche Panamera). In other words, we believe we have achieved our goal of building the world’s fastest sedan, but I look forward to putting that theory to the test…. and may the best car win.

MJones

Hopefully someone put their entry in...PCNA
Autoline Detroit made mention of the comp bur doubted that the Panamera would compete

yemenmocha

I wouldn't underestimate the CTS-V.

Also, I assume you're only talking about the Panamera Turbo.

The Panamera S weighs more than an M6 but has less hp than the M6 and M3 as well.

What's the hp on the e E63 AMG?

Bob Rouleau

If a Panamera Turbo at $140,000 beats a CTS-V at $60,000, GM still looks like a winner if the results are close.

George from MD

You gotta give it to Bob; that's some very smart marketing.

Lutz knows a Porsche Panamera Turbo (or BMW or whatever) costing over twice as much or more might eek out a faster lap- but they'd have to work hard at it- and it sure legitimizes Cadillac and will no doubt bring some buyers to their showrooms.

Things have certainly changed in the auto industry lately- did you ever think you'd see the day when Cadillac offers a manual transmission in their four door and Porsche introduces one that doesn't (at least not in the US)?

I have a friend who bought a regular CTS (6 speed). While I'm not very fond of the looks (and hate GM with a passion) the performance was impressive- as was the build quality and interior fit and finish. Considering the price- (he paid 40K) I thought the car was an absolute bargain.

It will be nice to see the new X5M and X6M send Porsche back to the drawing boards too- they're offering more performance than the Turbo Cayenne for a less money than a GTS.

Good on Bob- competition only makes it better for us consumers.

prosper

although for now the X5M and X6M do have more "on road" performance then the Cayenne Turbo,
but the BMW X series do not have the "off road" capability as the Cayenne Turbo.

Yes most of this Cayenne will never be used off road anyway,
but if Porsche change their Cayenne design to focus much more on On Road performance "ala BMW X series",
I am sure the Cayenne will be able to outperform the BMW,
but then people will complain about the lack of "off road" performance that had been part of the Cayenne model...

and I also admire the CTS-V capability/performance at that price,
that is why it is important for Porsche to enter this race and outperform the CTS-V,
because that will solidly make a case to buy the Panamera,
that is if you want the best performing 4 door sedan on the market, you are expected to pay much more(money is no object).
Beside from what I read in this forum, Porsche offer a direct comparison Test Drive between Panamera and other 4 door sedan during the test drive event in US few weeks ago.... right ?

heck if I am Porsche, I would challenge back CTS-V on a official sanction lap time race (with common agreed rules) on Nurburgring.
and at the same time sanction the race between the new 997 Turbo (mk 2) against the Nissan GTR.

prosper

In some way CTS-V would get a good marketing exposure,

but

that also solidify Panamera Turbo reputation as the best performing standard production 4 door sedan in the world,
and that would benefit the rest of Porsche Panamera line more and help jump start the sales during this critical launch time.

prosper

I am not and never will underestimate the CTS-V,
especially since several comparison test between CTS-V against M5 and older model E63 had been done in the past, and show CTS-V is the better performing car.
A good chassis coupled with an almost identical ZR-1 engine is a good package.

That is why, horsepower wise (and chassis wise), the CTS-V true competitor is only
the new E63 AMG and the new Panamera Turbo.

The Panamera S is underpowered against CTS-V, so it will not be a fair comparison.

the latest E63 AMG with a chassis modified from regular (much cheaper) E class,
will not have the advantage as Panamera.

because the E class basic chassis should be cheap enough to be sold as lesser E model,
while the Panamera most cheapest car Panamera S model already cost close to the E63 AMG.
so the Panamera chassis should be much better than E Class chassis,
because Porsche do not have to save cost here and there like Mercedes do with their E class.

that make Panamera Turbo the most possible candidate against CTS-V,
even though CTS-V had strong engine.

I just can't wait to see the new generation M5 due in about 2 to 3 years from today,
and see how good they are compare to the Panamera Turbo.

prosper

if Panamera do not compete,
CTS-V and Cadillac will also miss a chance to prove themselves...

as other here had suggested, even if CTS-V do not won the race against Panamera Turbo,
they still will get marketing advantage,
as long as the CTS-V can have comparable lap time.

hopefully GM will be actively seeking PCNA to race with their Panamera Turbo,...

and in the event that Porsche Panamera Turbo actually lost from CTS-V, (worst case scenario but **** do happened )

although it is bad for Porsche image,
but it will make Porsche (the company work harder),
and give us the best performance available next time.

just like how Porsche new 997 Turbo mk2 is so much better than the mk1,
because there are competition from Nissan GT-R

I bet if there is no GT-R,
Porsche would be saving all the 997 Turbo mk2 improvement for future all new model instead...

I want to see Porsche become the best again,
and if Porsche had to loss or experience humbling defeat along the way,
it is ok, as long as Porsche learn from that experience and emerge as a winner.

George from MD

Prosper I don't know how one would measure "off road" performance but I'm sure the Range Rover (or maybe the neighbor's kid's hacked up Jeep) probably blows away the Cayenne in that category. But on the road it appears (to me at least) that the folks in the M Works said "beat that car and make it cost a lot less"- and they did it. For years Porsche has touted the "on road" performance of it's Cayenne Turbo and pronounced it the uber SUV. Well on road, at least, it is no more. My point is the competition is heating up to the benefit of us all. I can't imagine Porsche not trying to get that title back and I'll bet we'll see a much improved Cayenne as a result.

Imagine the ignominy if the Porsche Panamera (any Porsche Panamera but especially the Turbo) were shown to be slower around a race track than a Cadillac which costs half as much. It would not look good and it puts a lot of pressure on Porsche to put their $ where their mouths are. Cadillac could run one hell of an ad campaign showing their x year old design beating the latest and greatest from Porsche or Mercedes. How could they justify a much higher price for a lot less performance? We'd only see better cars as a result.

And wouldn't this make an excellent Top Gear episode? Put the Stig in all of 'em and let the chips fall where they will.

Bob Rouleau

There will be a new Cayenne in 2011 based on the lighter Panamera platform - that should even the score

prosper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVCP...eature=channel

ricster

Trust me..the Panamera Turbo would smoke these cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uVCP...eature=channel

I would love to take lutz up on his offer

Marc Gelefsky

I would love to see that -V vs Panamera!

CTS-V is a fantastic car, I have had allot of set time in them and it really puts a big grin on ones face!