Porsche Panamera (Failure)
06-04-2009, 07:30 PM
#61
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To me a Porsche is a Porsche.
None are more or less than the others.
There are no undesirables or "ugly" ones - just Porsche's.
Therefore; whatever model you have; drive it with pride.
Have an awesome day,
None are more or less than the others.
There are no undesirables or "ugly" ones - just Porsche's.
Therefore; whatever model you have; drive it with pride.
Have an awesome day,
06-05-2009, 10:08 AM
#62
Rennlist Member
I will tell you first hand we have had a Cayenne GTS at our AX events and the BMW X5 4.8. We have also had an early generation Cayenne S with 4 people in it and it was amazing to see how well the Cayenne did. Even with 4 people in it the Cayenne it was superior in every way over the BMW by a long shot. The GTS without the PDCC or whatever the anti roll option is called, is nearly as fast as some custom built AX cars and you can look up the threads on the cayenne forum if you don't believe me.
If you truly believe what you write great for you but the proof is in the pudding and hands down the Cayenne especially the GTS is a superior vehicle to most sports cars and sedans I have driven. If the panamera is as good as the cayenne is it will be one great sport GT. I am assuming it will be superior.
I was looking at the pics again and I realized what it reminds me of. I had a friend who had a Citroen Maserati or SM back in HS. What a great car and like some you either found it attractive or ugly but it was a fun car to drive and was almost the same layout as the Panamera just with 2 doors. Wish I had that car to play with again it served so many purposes and although the back seats were tight you could fit 2 couples in it perfectly and carry luggage.
I also don't understand how you can judge a car on appearances alone without actually seeing one first had or more importantly experiencing it's capabilities or lack there of. Remember opinions are like........ everyone has one.
06-05-2009, 12:38 PM
#63
Nordschleife Master
oh, don't take it personally;
1)you made a judgment of a car you have not driven and possibly not even seen.
2) you argue with some who have
3) in post #41 you at least imply that a Cayenne and Panamera are Porsches only by virtue of ornamentation.
4) marketing myopia is rampant, please look around you.
5) suggest you not buy a Panamera or a Cayenne. but no need for you to make an issue with facts about vehicle performance. the Cayenne is the best performing SUV (along with its properly equipped stablemate the Touareg). you are not correct about the X5 being comparable in close pricing proximity.
i'm not sure why you insist that P cannot make a car other than a 911/986 on one hand and then say what great engineers they are on the other, and then criticize so completely things that few of us have information of.
do you think Porsche is the only company that had a rude reversal of fortune due to the economic situation?
1)you made a judgment of a car you have not driven and possibly not even seen.
2) you argue with some who have
3) in post #41 you at least imply that a Cayenne and Panamera are Porsches only by virtue of ornamentation.
4) marketing myopia is rampant, please look around you.
5) suggest you not buy a Panamera or a Cayenne. but no need for you to make an issue with facts about vehicle performance. the Cayenne is the best performing SUV (along with its properly equipped stablemate the Touareg). you are not correct about the X5 being comparable in close pricing proximity.
i'm not sure why you insist that P cannot make a car other than a 911/986 on one hand and then say what great engineers they are on the other, and then criticize so completely things that few of us have information of.
do you think Porsche is the only company that had a rude reversal of fortune due to the economic situation?
Say what?
"and yes, the Panamera is a Porsche. George is simply wrong about the car. as he is about thinking his X-whichever is somehow comparable. but i will agree that i wish i had not traded my V10 Touareg! that is a Beast. somehow George thinks he is the arbiter of what a Porsche should or should not be. very comon in our society. marketing myopia... "
Your statement is a bit rude mate. I never said the Panamera wasn't a Porsche and I certainly don't think I'm the arbiter of all things Porsche or suffering from "marketing myopia". (very common, you say? how many cases are there?)
However I have to question Herr Wiediking's judgement just as many others have. To say it isn't about the $ is a crock. It is most certainly about the $. Herr Wonderful is bringing an expensive luxury automobile to market at a time when sales of those models are down 50% or more. I have no doubt it will be a Porsche (an ugly five door hatchback Porsche) with the best that the Porsche engineering department can provide- and Porsche still retains some of the best engineering prowess in the world.
However Herr W, who insisted that the rear roofline be raised to accomodate tall drivers at the end of the design process, contributed to what is (not in just my opinion) one butt ugly car. Not that the current Porsche designers are the equal of Porsche engineers (Dr. Porsche and Ulrich Bez are sadly no longer involved). At any rate, I think Herr Wonderful has overreached and as a result he's diminished the Porsche image.
But the Panamera is only one example of his bad judgment and overreaching- his attempt to take over VW is far worse. I think that in the end Porsche will be OWNED by VW and all thoughts of an independent Porsche relying on SUVs and sedan sales to remain independent (or as a justification for the existence of those vehicles) will be moot. Should that happen you'll certainly know who to thank.
And if you want to compare your 70K list Cayenne against my 70K list X5 that could be the subject of whole different thread. Suffice it to say I bet on the BMW.
"and yes, the Panamera is a Porsche. George is simply wrong about the car. as he is about thinking his X-whichever is somehow comparable. but i will agree that i wish i had not traded my V10 Touareg! that is a Beast. somehow George thinks he is the arbiter of what a Porsche should or should not be. very comon in our society. marketing myopia... "
Your statement is a bit rude mate. I never said the Panamera wasn't a Porsche and I certainly don't think I'm the arbiter of all things Porsche or suffering from "marketing myopia". (very common, you say? how many cases are there?)
However I have to question Herr Wiediking's judgement just as many others have. To say it isn't about the $ is a crock. It is most certainly about the $. Herr Wonderful is bringing an expensive luxury automobile to market at a time when sales of those models are down 50% or more. I have no doubt it will be a Porsche (an ugly five door hatchback Porsche) with the best that the Porsche engineering department can provide- and Porsche still retains some of the best engineering prowess in the world.
However Herr W, who insisted that the rear roofline be raised to accomodate tall drivers at the end of the design process, contributed to what is (not in just my opinion) one butt ugly car. Not that the current Porsche designers are the equal of Porsche engineers (Dr. Porsche and Ulrich Bez are sadly no longer involved). At any rate, I think Herr Wonderful has overreached and as a result he's diminished the Porsche image.
But the Panamera is only one example of his bad judgment and overreaching- his attempt to take over VW is far worse. I think that in the end Porsche will be OWNED by VW and all thoughts of an independent Porsche relying on SUVs and sedan sales to remain independent (or as a justification for the existence of those vehicles) will be moot. Should that happen you'll certainly know who to thank.
And if you want to compare your 70K list Cayenne against my 70K list X5 that could be the subject of whole different thread. Suffice it to say I bet on the BMW.
06-09-2009, 01:08 AM
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basically after looking at what the panamera could have been with 2 doors i remembered an article i found in a road and track about 5-7 years ago where a short article was written about a porsche designed to contend in the ford focus (euro spec) slash VW gti market at the time. the sketch looked alot like what the panamera is, and in all honesty remember specifically the front end being exactly the same but with a shorter nose. even the vent and body lines were the same until you reach the rear of the car.
i kinda wish they kept it as a 2 door hatch, that would have been an interesting market for porsche to assert itself into.
im quite bored and have a massive stack of road and track as well as car and drivers i could look through to post the picture, but most likely its on the web somewhere and somebody else has probably already posted it.
i kinda wish they kept it as a 2 door hatch, that would have been an interesting market for porsche to assert itself into.
im quite bored and have a massive stack of road and track as well as car and drivers i could look through to post the picture, but most likely its on the web somewhere and somebody else has probably already posted it.
06-09-2009, 03:23 AM
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I hope they look better in person - I also hope they sell like hot cakes and keep the GT cars being built.
i'm not against the Cayenne or the Panamera at all - they just arn't for me.
While porsche is one if not the most profitable car compainies the dept load the took on to aquire 51% of VW is scary from a shareholder POV.
i'm not against the Cayenne or the Panamera at all - they just arn't for me.
While porsche is one if not the most profitable car compainies the dept load the took on to aquire 51% of VW is scary from a shareholder POV.
06-09-2009, 06:16 PM
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basically after looking at what the panamera could have been with 2 doors i remembered an article i found in a road and track about 5-7 years ago where a short article was written about a porsche designed to contend in the ford focus (euro spec) slash VW gti market at the time. the sketch looked alot like what the panamera is, and in all honesty remember specifically the front end being exactly the same but with a shorter nose. even the vent and body lines were the same until you reach the rear of the car.
i kinda wish they kept it as a 2 door hatch, that would have been an interesting market for porsche to assert itself into.
im quite bored and have a massive stack of road and track as well as car and drivers i could look through to post the picture, but most likely its on the web somewhere and somebody else has probably already posted it.
i kinda wish they kept it as a 2 door hatch, that would have been an interesting market for porsche to assert itself into.
im quite bored and have a massive stack of road and track as well as car and drivers i could look through to post the picture, but most likely its on the web somewhere and somebody else has probably already posted it.
06-09-2009, 06:45 PM
#67
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06-11-2009, 05:45 AM
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06-11-2009, 09:36 AM
#69
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When my two kids get too big to fit in the back of my 928S4, a SUV or large sedan beckons. I would prefer a Porsche to most other brands, so its a market I move into. Porsche have a product, wins all round!
Having said that I would most likely get a 7 seater Disco diesel,[ its a big counrty here] we can then go camping and carry a couple of school friends around.
FWIW we have a 03 X5 4.4 sport, my wifes choice OK, its a dog!, Only 70,000km and things like Cv boots, castor bushes, the in dash info screen loses dots, rattles in the back, shocking wear of the inside rear tyres due to excessive camber, cheap plastics bits break, easily scratched plastics, Overly sensitive throttle, jumpy brakes, small boot,.....still not as bad to drive as the inlaw's 530i, whoever let that steering out should be hung drawn and quartered! The X5 cost AUD $125,000, now worth $35,000. 03 Cayennes here still get $60,000
My mates Cayenne is so much better than his wifes X54.4, their's is really falling apart. My other friens has a new X5, hates the ride, prefers the RR.
The rear hatch of the Panamerra is a wonderful idea, if you never carry much around it would seem daft, but the other day i got a 1.2m sq piece of wood in the 928, and then realized why the panamerra is so. I often have the boot full of tools, or put the racks on to carry wood, etc.
928s make a good tradie ute!
As to fitting an adult in the back. well if it is a little off in style for practicality then bring it on. A bloody huge Bentley GT has no room, a M6 has no room for even kids! If only the 928 had a few more inches....
Personally I have not much affection for 911s, so obviously I don't fit the blinkered 911 profile.
If someone is stupid enough to pay a lot of money for a teddy bear, then let them, whats it to you.
Hopefully that helps pay for some small part development some where.
Nigel
87S4
Having said that I would most likely get a 7 seater Disco diesel,[ its a big counrty here] we can then go camping and carry a couple of school friends around.
FWIW we have a 03 X5 4.4 sport, my wifes choice OK, its a dog!, Only 70,000km and things like Cv boots, castor bushes, the in dash info screen loses dots, rattles in the back, shocking wear of the inside rear tyres due to excessive camber, cheap plastics bits break, easily scratched plastics, Overly sensitive throttle, jumpy brakes, small boot,.....still not as bad to drive as the inlaw's 530i, whoever let that steering out should be hung drawn and quartered! The X5 cost AUD $125,000, now worth $35,000. 03 Cayennes here still get $60,000
My mates Cayenne is so much better than his wifes X54.4, their's is really falling apart. My other friens has a new X5, hates the ride, prefers the RR.
The rear hatch of the Panamerra is a wonderful idea, if you never carry much around it would seem daft, but the other day i got a 1.2m sq piece of wood in the 928, and then realized why the panamerra is so. I often have the boot full of tools, or put the racks on to carry wood, etc.
928s make a good tradie ute!
As to fitting an adult in the back. well if it is a little off in style for practicality then bring it on. A bloody huge Bentley GT has no room, a M6 has no room for even kids! If only the 928 had a few more inches....
Personally I have not much affection for 911s, so obviously I don't fit the blinkered 911 profile.
If someone is stupid enough to pay a lot of money for a teddy bear, then let them, whats it to you.
Hopefully that helps pay for some small part development some where.
Nigel
87S4
06-11-2009, 03:13 PM
#70
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06-12-2009, 01:56 AM
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I agree, incredibly sad news. I'm looking forward to his solo album being released. He was apparently halfway through recording when he passed. Would be great if Gilmour, Mason and Waters united and made the 'final' PF album using pieces from Rick's final works.
A man can dream..
Sorry for the OT!
06-12-2009, 06:50 AM
#72
Nordschleife Master
I wouldn't consider those hatchbacks? When I think hatchback I think Focus', 206's, Mini Cooper etc.
I agree, incredibly sad news. I'm looking forward to his solo album being released. He was apparently halfway through recording when he passed. Would be great if Gilmour, Mason and Waters united and made the 'final' PF album using pieces from Rick's final works.
A man can dream..
Sorry for the OT!
I agree, incredibly sad news. I'm looking forward to his solo album being released. He was apparently halfway through recording when he passed. Would be great if Gilmour, Mason and Waters united and made the 'final' PF album using pieces from Rick's final works.
A man can dream..
Sorry for the OT!
it seems to me that in the cases i can think of off the top of my head, either us or them have moved on. but YMMV...
06-12-2009, 10:17 AM
#73
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06-22-2009, 09:29 AM
#75
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It's evident that the Panamera is the future of Porsche.
Why did they make an SUV? Why is the 924/944/968 not considered a "real Porsche"? Why is there no love for the Cayman?
I'll tell you why. It's because Porsche has ceased to be a high-end sports car manufacturer and become just another model of luxury car. The Porsche has come to be valued more for its big-name hood badge and high sticker price than for its handling and racecar pedigree.
Any luxury automaker can stick a powerful engine in a big, heavy sedan, and get good 0-60 numbers. But there's so much more to a true sports car than that.
The Panamera, like the Cayenne, makes me sad. It was made to be polished, not driven.
Why did they make an SUV? Why is the 924/944/968 not considered a "real Porsche"? Why is there no love for the Cayman?
I'll tell you why. It's because Porsche has ceased to be a high-end sports car manufacturer and become just another model of luxury car. The Porsche has come to be valued more for its big-name hood badge and high sticker price than for its handling and racecar pedigree.
Any luxury automaker can stick a powerful engine in a big, heavy sedan, and get good 0-60 numbers. But there's so much more to a true sports car than that.
The Panamera, like the Cayenne, makes me sad. It was made to be polished, not driven.
Have you been sleeping while Porsche is producing some of the best sports cars on the market (i.e. GT series)?