Porsche Panamera (Failure)
10-28-2010, 10:30 PM
#196
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....it was rhetorical. Honestly Ted and with all due respect, I don't really care what you or any of the other OG 911 guys (and it is mostly you OG 911 guys who do not like the Panny....) think about my Panamera or any other Panny for that matter b/c based on my experience after having lived with the car for the last 6 months you are definitely in the minority when it comes to how people percieve/react to the car when they see it in person..... Young people and folks not necessarily in the "Porsche" fold of all ages love it and so do I. I've had 7 series, Maserati QP sport GT, S-class S55 and Audi S8 and I can tell you from experiencing all of those cars they do not hold a candle to the Panny.. Period.
Last edited by Chuck Z; 10-29-2010 at 10:44 AM.
10-28-2010, 10:46 PM
#197
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Cut me a break. You're the one losing credibilty and doing the insulting. Nothing is great just because it says Porsche on it. The new Jaguars are stunning to look at, offer excellent performance and much better value than the Panorama. Older Jaguars are in a class of their own and are cherished just as much (if not more) than older Porsches. The Panorama wishes it had half as much class as a MKII 3.8.
And an Aston Martin dealer gave you a Rapide for the weekend? In Pittsburgh?? Just tossed you the keys, right? That was, when, a few months ago? Talk about credibility. You can barely find one in the Washington DC area- much less take one for an entire weekend as a prospective purchaser.
Besides, for Panamera money I'd buy a new GTS and a used M5. At the end of four years I'd have a lot more money than the guy with the Pano and two great performing (and very good looking) cars, not one rapidly depreciating four door totally past it's sell by because Ferdinand Piech had Porsche design a new one that was easy on the eyes.
And an Aston Martin dealer gave you a Rapide for the weekend? In Pittsburgh?? Just tossed you the keys, right? That was, when, a few months ago? Talk about credibility. You can barely find one in the Washington DC area- much less take one for an entire weekend as a prospective purchaser.
Besides, for Panamera money I'd buy a new GTS and a used M5. At the end of four years I'd have a lot more money than the guy with the Pano and two great performing (and very good looking) cars, not one rapidly depreciating four door totally past it's sell by because Ferdinand Piech had Porsche design a new one that was easy on the eyes.
10-29-2010, 12:05 AM
#198
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Chuck Z - your Pana 4S is smoken hot, I never saw one in Blue and love the wheels. Are those HRE?
Good luck with her and enjoy!
Good luck with her and enjoy!
10-29-2010, 06:35 AM
#199
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10-29-2010, 08:53 AM
#200
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Not for nothing but I really don't see that much of a difference and I like the aggressive lines of the panny better. Neither are classic 911 but I think the panamera has a unique look and rather aggressive. Some of the sexiest cars made have been the worst driving experiences of my life. Take the Countach for instance. Every boys fantasy in the 80's but an awful car to drive.
10-29-2010, 02:24 PM
#202
I got a kick out of this statement because it was incomplete:
"Older Jaguars are in a class of their own and are cherished just as much (if not more) than older Porsches."
Owning an older Jaguar means that you must have unlimilted contacts in the NOS business, they come equipped with a list of problems that relegate them to displays and concourse Sundays. My brother owned an XKE Jag and his list of miseries was awesome; Beautiful car, but a garage queen, try abusing one like a Porsche is used and you'll soon be back in the shop.
"Older Jaguars are in a class of their own and are cherished just as much (if not more) than older Porsches."
Owning an older Jaguar means that you must have unlimilted contacts in the NOS business, they come equipped with a list of problems that relegate them to displays and concourse Sundays. My brother owned an XKE Jag and his list of miseries was awesome; Beautiful car, but a garage queen, try abusing one like a Porsche is used and you'll soon be back in the shop.
10-29-2010, 04:27 PM
#203
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I got a kick out of this statement because it was incomplete:
"Older Jaguars are in a class of their own and are cherished just as much (if not more) than older Porsches."
Owning an older Jaguar means that you must have unlimilted contacts in the NOS business, they come equipped with a list of problems that relegate them to displays and concourse Sundays. My brother owned an XKE Jag and his list of miseries was awesome; Beautiful car, but a garage queen, try abusing one like a Porsche is used and you'll soon be back in the shop.
"Older Jaguars are in a class of their own and are cherished just as much (if not more) than older Porsches."
Owning an older Jaguar means that you must have unlimilted contacts in the NOS business, they come equipped with a list of problems that relegate them to displays and concourse Sundays. My brother owned an XKE Jag and his list of miseries was awesome; Beautiful car, but a garage queen, try abusing one like a Porsche is used and you'll soon be back in the shop.
10-29-2010, 11:08 PM
#204
I'm surprised it makes a few of you feel better about your Panamera to denigrate Jaguar but it must- I've never seen so much Jag bashing. What's next? Maserati? Ferrari? Audi? Aston Martin (oops you've already done that). Most of us who own Porsches respect other marques for what they are- of course they have their faults- but we're honest enough to see those in a Porsche as well.
Wonder why I don't see that from some of you in the Panamera thread? You can't see the difference between a 911 rear quarter and a Pano rear quarter?? What are you blind or delusional??
BTW speaking of incomplete. I have a friend restoring a 73 RS. Tons of $ invested. He's been waiting over a year for a rear deck lid. It's evidently made of unobtainium. Hence I would surmise that older Porsches require special relationships with the NOS guys too- and I dare say they're nowhere near as reliable as today's Porsches or (dare I say again) Jaguars. Just like older BMWs, Audi's, Merc's and (even more so) Ferraris or Lambos.
I have no doubt an old XKE is a garage queen. But I have no doubt an old 356 is too. Try abusing it and let me know how long it takes before you're back in the shop. Maybe a few weeks later than the Jag I would admit- but you'll be back there I promise. Wondering where you can find the part that will keep it original.
Wonder why I don't see that from some of you in the Panamera thread? You can't see the difference between a 911 rear quarter and a Pano rear quarter?? What are you blind or delusional??
BTW speaking of incomplete. I have a friend restoring a 73 RS. Tons of $ invested. He's been waiting over a year for a rear deck lid. It's evidently made of unobtainium. Hence I would surmise that older Porsches require special relationships with the NOS guys too- and I dare say they're nowhere near as reliable as today's Porsches or (dare I say again) Jaguars. Just like older BMWs, Audi's, Merc's and (even more so) Ferraris or Lambos.
I have no doubt an old XKE is a garage queen. But I have no doubt an old 356 is too. Try abusing it and let me know how long it takes before you're back in the shop. Maybe a few weeks later than the Jag I would admit- but you'll be back there I promise. Wondering where you can find the part that will keep it original.
Last edited by George from MD; 10-29-2010 at 11:31 PM.
10-29-2010, 11:53 PM
#205
Nordschleife Master
....it was rhetorical. Honestly Ted and with all due respect, I don't really care what you or any of the other OG 911 guys (and it is mostly you OG 911 guys who do not like the Panny....) think about my Panamera or any other Panny for that matter b/c based on my experience after having lived with the car for the last 6 months you are definitely in the minority when it comes to how people perceive/react to the car when they see it in person..... Young people and folks not necessarily in the "Porsche" fold of all ages love it and so do I. I've had 7 series, Maserati QP sport GT, S-class S55 and Audi S8 and I can tell you from experiencing all of those cars they do not hold a candle to the Panny.. Period.
Chuck, please don't get you panties in a knot ... I appreciate the fact that you keep VW in business producing the new GT3 ...
Last edited by FlatSix911; 10-31-2010 at 11:18 PM.
10-30-2010, 09:47 AM
#206
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I'm sure if the forum existed back in the late 70-80's we would see the same discourse regarding the 924 and 928 variants.
Car and Driver recently put it best:
"Offering anything new in Porsche design is like pushing a cell phone to the Amish"
We all appreciate cars for their stylistic and performance attributes. IMO, some of the marques discussed are like body builders with nothing in their shorts, whereas the Pano is the nerdy kid who unbeknownst to all is a martial arts expert and later grows up to be a **** star!
To each their own...
Car and Driver recently put it best:
"Offering anything new in Porsche design is like pushing a cell phone to the Amish"
We all appreciate cars for their stylistic and performance attributes. IMO, some of the marques discussed are like body builders with nothing in their shorts, whereas the Pano is the nerdy kid who unbeknownst to all is a martial arts expert and later grows up to be a **** star!
To each their own...
10-30-2010, 09:57 AM
#207
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Personally, I am not a one brand, one model enthusiast snob nor am I stuck in the past like many here seem to be, which is exactly the reason I haven't posted on this forum to date. The passionate bashing of the Panamera by so called "Porsche" enthusiasts is almost laughable. Rather, I post on other forums who seem to have a more open minded group of members that understand there is more to the Porsche world than just a 911.....
For the record, I've owned two 911s; a 1997 993 cab and a 2001 996 cab.
Last edited by Chuck Z; 10-30-2010 at 10:46 AM.
11-06-2010, 08:48 PM
#208
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I am late to this thread and probably will restate things that have been discussed. But... Got to drive a Panamera 4S at the launch. Just me and the PCNA guy. I tend to agree with the butt ugly crowd, but I am also on board with the "whoa this is a whole lot car" crowd. Running it through the twisty up and down hill on the way to Laguna Seca was an eye opener. Reminded me of my '44 Turbo, solid, fast, responsive and little drama. Just a bit of push, but it is a heavy car. I was very impressed with its composure and once we started at speed, the car seemed to get smaller.
I did the Porsche Drivers Ed in Birmingham just after the Cayenne was released. They were clearly marketing to those in attendance, so they had us drive a Cayenne S in an autocross (next day followed with a Boxster S in the same course). I did everything I could get it stupid and the beast refused. Then at the end of the course, Doc Bundy put three of us in a Cayenne Turbo and chased the other instructors in their 911's. Very instructive. The Cayenne stayed with the Carreras through all but right at the apex of the corners.
Bottom line for me is the Cayenne and Panamera are cut from the same cloth. Great vehicles, made extremely capable through technology. It is the roll stability, PCM, PSM or what ever software program that is there to correct the physics of throwing a vehicle of the weight and height both have. Are they Porsches of the light weight, great handling, low hp 356 era? No. Are they Porsches of the 964/993 air cooled bigger hp, heavier cars? Maybe. It could be said they are from the 996TT and 997TT line, given their power and handling. Though to me they seem to me to be entirely new Porsches that may not fit within the niche of the club, but if I had an extra 100 large hanging around and needed a four seater, Panamera in my garage.
Progress is a good thing. It just may not suit everyone.
I did the Porsche Drivers Ed in Birmingham just after the Cayenne was released. They were clearly marketing to those in attendance, so they had us drive a Cayenne S in an autocross (next day followed with a Boxster S in the same course). I did everything I could get it stupid and the beast refused. Then at the end of the course, Doc Bundy put three of us in a Cayenne Turbo and chased the other instructors in their 911's. Very instructive. The Cayenne stayed with the Carreras through all but right at the apex of the corners.
Bottom line for me is the Cayenne and Panamera are cut from the same cloth. Great vehicles, made extremely capable through technology. It is the roll stability, PCM, PSM or what ever software program that is there to correct the physics of throwing a vehicle of the weight and height both have. Are they Porsches of the light weight, great handling, low hp 356 era? No. Are they Porsches of the 964/993 air cooled bigger hp, heavier cars? Maybe. It could be said they are from the 996TT and 997TT line, given their power and handling. Though to me they seem to me to be entirely new Porsches that may not fit within the niche of the club, but if I had an extra 100 large hanging around and needed a four seater, Panamera in my garage.
Progress is a good thing. It just may not suit everyone.
