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help me decide -- lease 4 E-hybrid or buy 2017 4S?

 
Old 07-02-2019, 11:45 AM
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bavariandoc
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Default help me decide -- lease 4 E-hybrid or buy 2017 4S?

I have been wanting to get Panamera and now its between the 2 choices – lease brand new 4 E-hybrid or purchase used 2017 4S? I got following quote from dealer:

Panamera 4 E Hybrid lease – 39 months / 7,500 miles per year:
MSRP $118,570
Sale Price: $111,000 (6.4% discount)
Money Factor: 0.0029 / Residual 54%
Monthly payment: $1,525+tax
Due at signing: 1st month, $995 bank fee, $723 rebate tax, $896 for registration/DMV/doc fee. E Hybrid lease has $6670 rebate which makes a leasing over new 4S much more favorable.

Is above quote reasonable or I could do better? Total cost of leasing 4 E-hybrid for 39 months would come out to $69,000 (inclusive of all payments, fees and taxes).

Another option is to purchase used 2017 Panamera 4S which I have been doing research and price range falls around $85,000 mark. Monthly payment would be $1,420+tax on 60 months financing.

Your thoughts are much appreciated to help me make better decision. My biggest concern is with used 4S would be when it runs out of warranty after 1-2 years, if that would be too much of a risk/liability to be taken. Fellow members which owned the Panamera would be able to chime in with their experiences and thoughts.

Thank you very much!
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:21 PM
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Having just gone through this exercise in the last few months. I'd say go with the lease. Perhaps opt for more miles (if needed). That's a pretty decent deal if you're getting the rebate on top of the discount. We did a 12k mile lease on ours and plan to get pulled out in just over 27 months. Ymmv...but we are super happy with ours and my wife only has to fill up every 3 weeks or so. Good luck!
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Old 07-02-2019, 12:43 PM
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This is an apples/oranges comparison on top of two different financial choices.
I think you should decide if you want an e-hybrid or a fuel-only vehicle. The two are very different driving machines.
The e-hybrid weighs about 600lbs more due to additional batteries so take that into account as well.
Both are fun vehicles, you really can't go wrong either way.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by bavariandoc View Post
I have been wanting to get Panamera and now its between the 2 choices – lease brand new 4 E-hybrid or purchase used 2017 4S? I got following quote from dealer:

Panamera 4 E Hybrid lease – 39 months / 7,500 miles per year:
MSRP $118,570
Sale Price: $111,000 (6.4% discount)
Money Factor: 0.0029 / Residual 54%
Monthly payment: $1,525+tax
Due at signing: 1st month, $995 bank fee, $723 rebate tax, $896 for registration/DMV/doc fee. E Hybrid lease has $6670 rebate which makes a leasing over new 4S much more favorable.

Is above quote reasonable or I could do better? Total cost of leasing 4 E-hybrid for 39 months would come out to $69,000 (inclusive of all payments, fees and taxes).

Another option is to purchase used 2017 Panamera 4S which I have been doing research and price range falls around $85,000 mark. Monthly payment would be $1,420+tax on 60 months financing.

Your thoughts are much appreciated to help me make better decision. My biggest concern is with used 4S would be when it runs out of warranty after 1-2 years, if that would be too much of a risk/liability to be taken. Fellow members which owned the Panamera would be able to chime in with their experiences and thoughts.

Thank you very much!
For me it'd depend on the length of time you're planning on keeping the car. If it's a short time, then the hybrid lease makes good sense. However, if you're like those who keep and drive cars for a good long time, the complexity of the hybrid makes it a dubious choice. Two items on your list bother me. The first is the 'bank fee'. WTF is that? The bank charges you a grand to borrow money and make it rich? What's a rebate tax?

Speaking personally, if I were told I had to pay a bank fee to buy or lease a car, I'd tell them to pound sand.

Also at these prices, I'd look at a CPO to buy rather than a simple used car since your price threshold easily gets you into CPO territory.
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Old 07-02-2019, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dryadsdad View Post
For me it'd depend on the length of time you're planning on keeping the car. If it's a short time, then the hybrid lease makes good sense. However, if you're like those who keep and drive cars for a good long time, the complexity of the hybrid makes it a dubious choice. Two items on your list bother me. The first is the 'bank fee'. WTF is that? The bank charges you a grand to borrow money and make it rich? What's a rebate tax?

Speaking personally, if I were told I had to pay a bank fee to buy or lease a car, I'd tell them to pound sand.

Also at these prices, I'd look at a CPO to buy rather than a simple used car since your price threshold easily gets you into CPO territory.
Thank you for your input. I intend to keep Panamera for about 3 years.

We are on same page regarding fees -- bank/acquisition fee is mandatory and required when you are leasing. its dictated/charged by leasing company. e.g. for BMW is $600-700 but for Porsche is $995. You cannot negotiate on this as it has nothing to do with dealer but with financial institution issuing a lease.

Rebate tax is where there's $6670 rebate you can apply as cap cost reduction for leasing hybrid vehicle but must pay tax on it.
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bavariandoc View Post
Thank you for your input. I intend to keep Panamera for about 3 years.

We are on same page regarding fees -- bank/acquisition fee is mandatory and required when you are leasing. its dictated/charged by leasing company. e.g. for BMW is $600-700 but for Porsche is $995. You cannot negotiate on this as it has nothing to do with dealer but with financial institution issuing a lease.

Rebate tax is where there's $6670 rebate you can apply as cap cost reduction for leasing hybrid vehicle but must pay tax on it.
I hope you enjoy yours as much we do ours.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:24 AM
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The Pan4 E-Hybrid is orders of magnitude better than the 4S. Not even close. Lots more power with the E-Hybrid, lots more fun. It's an amazing vehicle. I test drove a couple of Panamera Turbos (non-E-Hybrids) before I bought my 2018 Pan4 E-Hybrid, and the E-Hybrid is much more interesting and more fun to drive than the Turbo, in my opinion. I'd never consider a Panamera or Cayenne again unless it was an E-Hybrid (and I owned a 2015 ICE-only Panamera that I really liked prior to my E-Hybrid, but I'd never go back). Read through the Panamera 4 E-Hybrid Owners thread to get more information. Would I own one outside of warranty? probably not... But in my first 13 months and 20k miles of driving my E-Hybrid, I have had zero problems. If you can plug in every night at home and if you drive under 50 or so miles a day, an E-Hybrid can be a very fun and practical vehicle for a daily driver.
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Old 07-03-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cometguy View Post
The Pan4 E-Hybrid is orders of magnitude better than the 4S. Not even close. Lots more power with the E-Hybrid, lots more fun. It's an amazing vehicle. I test drove a couple of Panamera Turbos (non-E-Hybrids) before I bought my 2018 Pan4 E-Hybrid, and the E-Hybrid is much more interesting and more fun to drive than the Turbo, in my opinion. I'd never consider a Panamera or Cayenne again unless it was an E-Hybrid (and I owned a 2015 ICE-only Panamera that I really liked prior to my E-Hybrid, but I'd never go back). Read through the Panamera 4 E-Hybrid Owners thread to get more information. Would I own one outside of warranty? probably not... But in my first 13 months and 20k miles of driving my E-Hybrid, I have had zero problems. If you can plug in every night at home and if you drive under 50 or so miles a day, an E-Hybrid can be a very fun and practical vehicle for a daily driver.

Curious as to your thoughts on the e hybrid and how it compares to the turbo since you drove one prior to buying a e hybrid. I haven’t driven one however looking at reviews of the Panamera online, the hybridized versions are criticized for their weight penalty and sterility vs their ICE only counterparts
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Old 07-03-2019, 10:36 PM
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I don't understand how an extra 600lbs equates to orders of magnitude better. Please explain. You do realize one order of magnitude is 10x.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by malrash View Post
Curious as to your thoughts on the e hybrid and how it compares to the turbo since you drove one prior to buying a e hybrid. I haven’t driven one however looking at reviews of the Panamera online, the hybridized versions are criticized for their weight penalty and sterility vs their ICE only counterparts
All Panameras are heavy -- Turbos more so than 4S and 4. I have no issue with the E-Hybrid; it's well balanced and drives like a true sports car. The E-Hybrid comes standard with PASM, air suspension, sport chrono package, etc. It feels like you're going 65 mph when you're going 100 mph -- so smooth. And I find the E-Hybrid to have every bit as much acceleration as the Turbo -- without measuring it (just the sense of it). I think it's like 4.3 seconds from 0 to 60 mph in the 4 E-Hybrid -- that's fast. I don't know what you mean by "sterility" -- have not heard that as a criticism, whatever it means...
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CanuckGT4 View Post
I don't understand how an extra 600lbs equates to orders of magnitude better. Please explain. You do realize one order of magnitude is 10x.
figure of speech... not applying science here...
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:54 AM
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Electric motors - 100% torque available at 0 RPM!! I think a hybrid with a turbo motor as perfect combination, electric gets you going quickly and once the turbos spool up - weeeeeeee
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Old 07-04-2019, 11:27 AM
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You can notice the weight and it's not good, it's not a killer though, they hide it very well in the day to day drive. On the other hand that battery power gives you NA V8 feel from a stop, lots of torque and right now. On the other, other hand, the Hybrid runs out of steam compared to the 4S as the RPM goes up, making it feel less powerful than the 4S when flogging. As stated the Hybrid comes with some of the options I'd want without checking a box like the air suspension, sport chrono, and so on. I originally looked for a Hybrid after much internal debate but ended up with a 4S because I found a good deal on one that was heavily loaded. In my own mind I didn't really care about the economy numbers, buying a panamera for economy takes a lot of rationalization, more than I can make. For me the tipping point to go Hybrid was largely for the novelty, I haven't owned one yet and it would have been new and different. On the demerit side with the Hybrid was no engine sound at times, yeah, I'm one of those guys, I seldom listen to the stereo because it intrudes on what I want to hear. Believe it or not the slightly better performance with the 4S was not a factor despite my being very much a car guy. If I really wanted to go fast I buy a different car, that is not my purpose with this car.
Lots of factors to consider and I went back and forth for months, went in half a dozen times for test drives, and ultimately didn't buy what I decided to buy with no regret. That may be good news, I'm very particular about what I want with cars and seldom compromise on it because I always regret it when I do compromise. If you're very close on it and going back and forth you're probably not going to end up disappointing.
FYI... Realistically, If I could afford it I'd be in a new Turbo S right now rather than a 4S or a Hybrid. Not a complaint, just saying.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:03 PM
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Well, all Porsches are turbo charged.. The name "Turbo", as in "Panamera Turbo", is nuts.
As for "economy", that's not the point. The point is that not going to a gas station for 5-6 weeks at a time is heavenly. I think gas stations are abysmal places to go to, frankly -- probably the worst places any of us have to visit on a regular basis... Plugging in every night and getting most of your local commuting on all electric is really wonderful, and liberating.
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Old 07-04-2019, 12:37 PM
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I'm an engineer, I understand they are all turbocharged. Have to agree about their naming conventions but understand why they don't want to give up the established names which could fairly be described as iconic. In any event I wasn't beating up the Hybrid, you could have used the Maxwell Smart meme to describe how close I came to having one. As I said there are many factors involved in this decision but should have added that this applies more to those of us that aren't specifically trying to get or avoid battery powered locomotion. I don't like gas stations either BTW but having to stop in twice a month isn't pegging my aversion meter. It is a good point however, for those that hate gas stations, Hybrid=good.
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