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Do I need sports chrono and sport exhaust?

 
Old 06-30-2019, 03:13 PM
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Foreste1
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Default Do I need sports chrono and sport exhaust?

Hi, I have been looking hard for a Panamera for my wife. I want one that was highly optioned but do notice ones without sports chrono sitting for sale a long time and I keep closing the ad once I see it does not have it. Are guys not wanting those cars as much as ones with it, just dont want to buy one and then if we go to sell it, nobody wants it without that option? Also the sport exhaust? I have had many Porsches over the years and my last 911 had the sport exhaust and it made all the difference in driving it so thinking I need it on this car when I find it?
I am after 2010-14 or so. Thanks for any advice!!
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Old 06-30-2019, 03:49 PM
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Sport chronos (button) can be added later - you wont have the chronos part in the dash but truly that's not much of a loss, sport exhaust adds sound only - no performance difference
depending on how good a price you get you might use the savings to add a aftermarket performance exhaust and gain a bit of power.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:28 PM
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IMO Chrono is a must have: The mode switching is something you will use more often when it lies at your fingertips and is actuated with muscle memory and utilizing your modes makes the car better. The exhaust is subjective but there are a couple considerations: The sports exhaust isn't what most people I know would describe as loud. It is more vocal of course and IMO suits the nature of the car well but if you want loud you may want to consider aftermarket options. That would bring me to the fact that aftermarket isn't cheap either. I'd get a test drive in a car with and without and see where you're at on the stock options and go from there.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:42 PM
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How hard is it to add later (Chrono) and will it work the same as it would if it came with car originally minus the gauge? Also do you think it hurts car when go to sell? I am having tough time finding both options on cars, maybe I can live without the exhaust as somebody had said you cant really notice inside car? I dont want loud, just that deep rumble.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:48 PM
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Your car; your decision. I didn't even consider either when we were shopping for ours. so the idea that w/o them, the car will be a hard sell is, IMO, unsupported both from my view and from the view of many who buy w/o these options. I'd price a car equipped with both less than one without since those options imply to me that the P.O. drove in a sporting fashion (P-car speak) thus ladling out more wear and tear than normally driven Pannys.

As to the exhaust, either OEM or aftermarket, one of the benefits of a Panny is that it rides quietly. If you gave me a choice of our standard exhaust, a slightly noiser OEM sport one or a loud Akropovic, I'd go standard. I like listening to classical music as I drive rather than a pretend 1957 Chevy bark.
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Old 06-30-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Foreste1 View Post
How hard is it to add later (Chrono) and will it work the same as it would if it came with car originally minus the gauge? Also do you think it hurts car when go to sell? I am having tough time finding both options on cars, maybe I can live without the exhaust as somebody had said you cant really notice inside car? I dont want loud, just that deep rumble.
Suncoast sells the upgrade - it's software and a button, so it will behave exactly the same as if it was factory installed. You buy the upgrade from Suncoast, but have to have a Dealer install it
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Old 06-30-2019, 05:30 PM
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I've got an appointment to get Sport Plus added in mid-July (2016 4S). Looking forward to launch control!
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Old 06-30-2019, 05:44 PM
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Did you get a quote to do your car? Wondering what total cost is to add later? The point about prior owner driving harder with those options does have merit as well, something to think about. Ok so 6 cylinder or the V-8? I dont need AWD, in Phoenix. I had read the 6 is great and not much difference in performance, and I have always had better luck with 6 cylinders verses same car with 8.
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Old 06-30-2019, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dryadsdad View Post
Your car; your decision. I didn't even consider either when we were shopping for ours. so the idea that w/o them, the car will be a hard sell is, IMO, unsupported both from my view and from the view of many who buy w/o these options. I'd price a car equipped with both less than one without since those options imply to me that the P.O. drove in a sporting fashion (P-car speak) thus ladling out more wear and tear than normally driven Pannys.

As to the exhaust, either OEM or aftermarket, one of the benefits of a Panny is that it rides quietly. If you gave me a choice of our standard exhaust, a slightly noiser OEM sport one or a loud Akropovic, I'd go standard. I like listening to classical music as I drive rather than a pretend 1957 Chevy bark.
The exhaust is dual mode which is a have your cake and eat it too situation, just as quiet as stock or you can choose to give it a little zing. It Also does not play fake sounds over the speakers and no Panamera with or without the sport exhaust sounds like a 57 Chevy, pretend or otherwise. To consider the wear and tear thing you need to consider the car as a whole. Your typical teenage hooligan does not buy a Panamera. Nor do people who want to have a sports car to go flog, they will purchase something else. Lots of people don't spec the car at all and took what was on the lot. Some dealers will spec both, one, the other, or neither. Buyers may have purchased a car because it was available and most closely matched the car they wanted to get without wanting one or the other. The opposite is also true. I don't think you would find much of a correlation between this particular model car and its condition based on it having either option. I could buy into it with a used Mustang, even a used 911; a Panamera, not so much.

As to the modes I can tell you that they are generally liked as an option and much more when there is a mechanism that allows you to quickly change them on the fly. In BMW land we all thought the M button was a gimmick when it first hit, and yes I'm including myself, once you use it you come to understand it's a small but brilliant improvement. It was so popular BMW added another one to the disappointment of no one. Mode dials, yeah, those are popular too, far more than a passing fad because they play out every day as a useful addition to your driving experience and I'm talking every day driving in traffic.

The last thought I have here does not relate to your post. The sport exhaust can be heard in the car at any time and I say this as a half deaf old man. It isn't however loud, they clearly tuned with the intention of keeping things from reaching unseemly levels.
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Old 06-30-2019, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Foreste1 View Post
Did you get a quote to do your car? Wondering what total cost is to add later? The point about prior owner driving harder with those options does have merit as well, something to think about. Ok so 6 cylinder or the V-8? I dont need AWD, in Phoenix. I had read the 6 is great and not much difference in performance, and I have always had better luck with 6 cylinders verses same car with 8.
I was quoted the price of the kit - new button and harness, and software - and 3 hours labor. The Sport Plus add-on is available from Suncoast for about $850, and the price from my local dealer isn't much higher. Add in 3 hours labor and that's the total.

I didn't consider a V8 in my search, as this is my daily driver and I do just over 100 miles/day in my commute. The 4S gives me all the power I want (certainly even more than I need), and I get almost 27mpg on my mostly highway commute. I'm in Maine, so the AWD is a must-have.
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Old 07-01-2019, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by krabman View Post
The exhaust is dual mode which is a have your cake and eat it too situation, just as quiet as stock or you can choose to give it a little zing. It Also does not play fake sounds over the speakers and no Panamera with or without the sport exhaust sounds like a 57 Chevy, pretend or otherwise. To consider the wear and tear thing you need to consider the car as a whole. Your typical teenage hooligan does not buy a Panamera. Nor do people who want to have a sports car to go flog, they will purchase something else. Lots of people don't spec the car at all and took what was on the lot. Some dealers will spec both, one, the other, or neither. Buyers may have purchased a car because it was available and most closely matched the car they wanted to get without wanting one or the other. The opposite is also true. I don't think you would find much of a correlation between this particular model car and its condition based on it having either option. I could buy into it with a used Mustang, even a used 911; a Panamera, not so much.

As to the modes I can tell you that they are generally liked as an option and much more when there is a mechanism that allows you to quickly change them on the fly. In BMW land we all thought the M button was a gimmick when it first hit, and yes I'm including myself, once you use it you come to understand it's a small but brilliant improvement. It was so popular BMW added another one to the disappointment of no one. Mode dials, yeah, those are popular too, far more than a passing fad because they play out every day as a useful addition to your driving experience and I'm talking every day driving in traffic.

The last thought I have here does not relate to your post. The sport exhaust can be heard in the car at any time and I say this as a half deaf old man. It isn't however loud, they clearly tuned with the intention of keeping things from reaching unseemly levels.
I didn't know the sports exhaust was dual mode - thanks, but it also doesn't change my views any. Also I never said that Porsche had fallen to the fakey-doo nonsense that BMW has pumping zoom-zoom sounds into the cabin via the infortainment system. I'd be embarrassed to have a car with that feature.

I still hold that some or maybe many will use these cars hard. History doesn't show that those who wish to go fast do so predominantly in sports cars. Look at the muscle cars of the 1960's and upward. Most were large coupes that had few miles on them when sold to owner #2 but those miles were achieved 1/4 mile at a time. Even today there are those Challengers one of which has almost 800 rated HP - hardly a sports car. I doubt it can get out of its own way but can't be sure. I actually got a solicitation to rent on at $90/day (Hellcat) but I'll pass.

All P-cars have one thing in common - they are Porsches and as such are the most sporty in their segment. The Cayenne, for example, is clearly the P-car of giant SUV's. It does hold up to running on a track or an autocross where others such as the Explorer would fail or be a clumsy embarrassment. I see it as easily possible that many buy Pannys who need a four seater with good trunk space but who also would wish to drive hard. After all, AFAIK, other than a few Italian exotics at much higher price points, there are few alternatives. Most folks simply cannot fit, say, a 718 into their lives even if it would out perform the Panny on the track or a convoluted road course.

In the end, whether we buy this or that used car is a huge crapshoot. We can speculate on what characteristics contribute to a desirable example but can never know until we buy and use for a while to see what fails. A CPO mostly indemnifies a buyer against a lemon or one with a serious issue but then again, Porsche no doubt packs in some major bucks for that status as a reserve against failure. I have no idea what that reserve it but would guess it's $5k. Thus a CPO buyer is indemnified but also could have bought the same car for $5k less (in theory) saving the $5k as a reserve against failure.

We're new to Panny ownership and are scheduled to head out this month for a longer road trip mostly shunning the interstates for two lane blacktop. We'll see what breaks on ours, I suppose. I hope nothing does but then again, the whole crapshoot business looms.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:17 PM
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I'm getting the feeling you're trying to think it through logically without knowing numbers of which you do not have enough. I was alive and out there in what is now referred to as the muscle car era; what was the landscape then? I can give you some direct observations. You seldom saw anything but an American car at that time; it was around then I saw my first Japanese car, German offerings were a somewhat rare sight, you had a few British cars running around but they were also somewhat rare sights. If you were going to go to a track it was probably going to be in an American car because that's what people had. Then as now most people had never been to a track, nor had most cars of any type. Cars that sell for a real ching now were more often than not the car the average mom drove to the store to get groceries then. That muscle car you mention that people bought with just a few miles put on a quarter at a time: I never saw one, the COPOs and cars of that sort were very rare. I'm guessing that claiming 1 in a 1000 cars were driven a 1/4 mile at a time and then sold with low miles would be greatly overstating the amount that actually existed. I think you'd need to add a zero or two. The truth is reality does not come even close to the mythology that has built up around the muscle car period and the cars that did go to the track did so because they were what people had to drive, not because they were the chosen weapon.

Your also not considering the demographics. A new Panamera that someone will buy used later is an expensive proposition that no one has to have, it's a discretionary purchase. Far and away the largest group of people that have that kind of discretionary income/money that buys a Panamera would be old people. Old people don't typically flog their cars much because they got it out of their systems long ago. Will they mash the throttle on an on-ramp or maybe pull .3 G's around a few corners? Sure, but then that probably describes almost every Panamera owner of any age no matter what options they got on the car and irregardless of it being new or used. Don't believe me? Go to a Porsche meet and take a look at the owners of a new Panamera, you're going to see a lot of grey hair. You'll see that with every expensive toy that isn't so expensive as to be the plaything of the wealthy; lots of grey hair. Old people have the money to buy expensive things they don't need, young people usually don't.

We don't see Porsche the same way, you seem to hold it on a pedestal, I see it as the most overpriced among the German luxury cars, as a brand the best among them, and as a track car, poor choices across much of the line-up because one fast lap does not make a track car. I'm fine with that because like most people I'm not taking my Panamera to the track and it works great out on the road which is of course what it was really designed to do from the start. Very few will see a track. They'll make road trips, go to the store, occasionally the owner will have a little fun along the way while enjoying the feel of having capability they don't use much as they'd like. Real world driving isn't favorable for pushing limits Police, traffic, blind corners, stupid people, deer, the real world conspires against fast hardware. It's the kind of thing you figure out quickly when you own that fast hardware, in your mind you imagine the fun you'll have when you finally get that speedy car but in the real world you cant push much, it's not really there unless you want to add to one or more statistics most would rather avoid.

I haven't seen numbers for the Panamera but they will not support your claim that a sport exhaust or the sport chrono package correlates to statistically meaningful numbers indicating increased wear. I know this from other sporting cars where I have seen numbers, as a group they don't live the myth, they drive around in the real world and their lives are relatively mundane.

I'm not out to win the internet and I don't have more to add that wouldn't be saying something akin to "Nu, uh" so I'll give you the last word.
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Old 07-01-2019, 03:07 PM
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Ill add my meager contribution. I have owned 4 BMWs, and an Audi as far as "high end" cars go. 540i, 545i, X3, 550i - by far best one, and a Q7. I have never raced in my life. im dangerously close to the half century mark. Im not a professional, im a mechanic, aircraft. For me, im pretty much here. I wont push the car super hard on a daily basis... occasionally yes. I grew up in Wyo, LOTS of room to go fast. Here in Atlanta, not much at all... too many Sh*tty drivers, deer , cops and just not wanting to get a ticket. I make close to 200k but am certainly not "rich" enough to afford a lot of these cars new for sure. For me the only way I could is 1. I can fix them, that makes the cost of owning cheaper for me, and 2. waiting til they come down in price. I cant really justfiy racing these cars, I have a family, so outside the occasional speed burst Ill drive semi normal. Though there are a lot of driving that can be done in a spirited manner.! I dont have loads of cash to waste by being stupid and reckless with a car. But I dont want to sacrifice performance... or as much as I can get away with. Please note im NOT trying to put down racing! im just saying for a reg middle class dude like myself, I wouldnt be doing much of it...


Originally Posted by krabman View Post
I'm getting the feeling you're trying to think it through logically without knowing numbers of which you do not have enough. I was alive and out there in what is now referred to as the muscle car era; what was the landscape then? I can give you some direct observations. You seldom saw anything but an American car at that time; it was around then I saw my first Japanese car, German offerings were a somewhat rare sight, you had a few British cars running around but they were also somewhat rare sights. If you were going to go to a track it was probably going to be in an American car because that's what people had. Then as now most people had never been to a track, nor had most cars of any type. Cars that sell for a real ching now were more often than not the car the average mom drove to the store to get groceries then. That muscle car you mention that people bought with just a few miles put on a quarter at a time: I never saw one, the COPOs and cars of that sort were very rare. I'm guessing that claiming 1 in a 1000 cars were driven a 1/4 mile at a time and then sold with low miles would be greatly overstating the amount that actually existed. I think you'd need to add a zero or two. The truth is reality does not come even close to the mythology that has built up around the muscle car period and the cars that did go to the track did so because they were what people had to drive, not because they were the chosen weapon.

Your also not considering the demographics. A new Panamera that someone will buy used later is an expensive proposition that no one has to have, it's a discretionary purchase. Far and away the largest group of people that have that kind of discretionary income/money that buys a Panamera would be old people. Old people don't typically flog their cars much because they got it out of their systems long ago. Will they mash the throttle on an on-ramp or maybe pull .3 G's around a few corners? Sure, but then that probably describes almost every Panamera owner of any age no matter what options they got on the car and irregardless of it being new or used. Don't believe me? Go to a Porsche meet and take a look at the owners of a new Panamera, you're going to see a lot of grey hair. You'll see that with every expensive toy that isn't so expensive as to be the plaything of the wealthy; lots of grey hair. Old people have the money to buy expensive things they don't need, young people usually don't.

We don't see Porsche the same way, you seem to hold it on a pedestal, I see it as the most overpriced among the German luxury cars, as a brand the best among them, and as a track car, poor choices across much of the line-up because one fast lap does not make a track car. I'm fine with that because like most people I'm not taking my Panamera to the track and it works great out on the road which is of course what it was really designed to do from the start. Very few will see a track. They'll make road trips, go to the store, occasionally the owner will have a little fun along the way while enjoying the feel of having capability they don't use much as they'd like. Real world driving isn't favorable for pushing limits Police, traffic, blind corners, stupid people, deer, the real world conspires against fast hardware. It's the kind of thing you figure out quickly when you own that fast hardware, in your mind you imagine the fun you'll have when you finally get that speedy car but in the real world you cant push much, it's not really there unless you want to add to one or more statistics most would rather avoid.

I haven't seen numbers for the Panamera but they will not support your claim that a sport exhaust or the sport chrono package correlates to statistically meaningful numbers indicating increased wear. I know this from other sporting cars where I have seen numbers, as a group they don't live the myth, they drive around in the real world and their lives are relatively mundane.

I'm not out to win the internet and I don't have more to add that wouldn't be saying something akin to "Nu, uh" so I'll give you the last word.
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Old 07-01-2019, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by krabman View Post
I'm getting the feeling you're trying to think it through logically without knowing numbers of which you do not have enough. I was alive and out there in what is now referred to as the muscle car era; what was the landscape then? I can give you some direct observations. You seldom saw anything but an American car at that time; it was around then I saw my first Japanese car, German offerings were a somewhat rare sight, you had a few British cars running around but they were also somewhat rare sights. If you were going to go to a track it was probably going to be in an American car because that's what people had. Then as now most people had never been to a track, nor had most cars of any type. Cars that sell for a real ching now were more often than not the car the average mom drove to the store to get groceries then. That muscle car you mention that people bought with just a few miles put on a quarter at a time: I never saw one, the COPOs and cars of that sort were very rare. I'm guessing that claiming 1 in a 1000 cars were driven a 1/4 mile at a time and then sold with low miles would be greatly overstating the amount that actually existed. I think you'd need to add a zero or two. The truth is reality does not come even close to the mythology that has built up around the muscle car period and the cars that did go to the track did so because they were what people had to drive, not because they were the chosen weapon.

Your also not considering the demographics. A new Panamera that someone will buy used later is an expensive proposition that no one has to have, it's a discretionary purchase. Far and away the largest group of people that have that kind of discretionary income/money that buys a Panamera would be old people. Old people don't typically flog their cars much because they got it out of their systems long ago. Will they mash the throttle on an on-ramp or maybe pull .3 G's around a few corners? Sure, but then that probably describes almost every Panamera owner of any age no matter what options they got on the car and irregardless of it being new or used. Don't believe me? Go to a Porsche meet and take a look at the owners of a new Panamera, you're going to see a lot of grey hair. You'll see that with every expensive toy that isn't so expensive as to be the plaything of the wealthy; lots of grey hair. Old people have the money to buy expensive things they don't need, young people usually don't.

We don't see Porsche the same way, you seem to hold it on a pedestal, I see it as the most overpriced among the German luxury cars, as a brand the best among them, and as a track car, poor choices across much of the line-up because one fast lap does not make a track car. I'm fine with that because like most people I'm not taking my Panamera to the track and it works great out on the road which is of course what it was really designed to do from the start. Very few will see a track. They'll make road trips, go to the store, occasionally the owner will have a little fun along the way while enjoying the feel of having capability they don't use much as they'd like. Real world driving isn't favorable for pushing limits Police, traffic, blind corners, stupid people, deer, the real world conspires against fast hardware. It's the kind of thing you figure out quickly when you own that fast hardware, in your mind you imagine the fun you'll have when you finally get that speedy car but in the real world you cant push much, it's not really there unless you want to add to one or more statistics most would rather avoid.

I haven't seen numbers for the Panamera but they will not support your claim that a sport exhaust or the sport chrono package correlates to statistically meaningful numbers indicating increased wear. I know this from other sporting cars where I have seen numbers, as a group they don't live the myth, they drive around in the real world and their lives are relatively mundane.

I'm not out to win the internet and I don't have more to add that wouldn't be saying something akin to "Nu, uh" so I'll give you the last word.
I think I see the difference in how we see P-cars as well as who buys Pannys. I had the impression that high earners who are family men buy them. The high earner is obvious given the base now, optioned up a bit, will crack $100k. The family part is why they're buying a sedan. I see old folks as those who can buy that 718 because they're empty nesters. As faint support for my position, I give you Vette owners who are overwhelmingly over 60 years old. Why did they wait? Money to some extent but kids, dogs and whatever else they need to carry that a 911 or 718 or the rest of the sports cars can't manage.

As further support, I cite the TT model of the Panny. Clearly nobody needs the power of the TT, even G1, to be able to pass others or do any reasonable road duty. They're snapped up by folks who want to experience Thor's Hammer slamming into their chests when they mash the accelerator.

As to my comment about P-cars being trackable, I mean they are the most sporty cars in any class where they compete. Both my wife and I ride KTM bikes. These are, IMO, like P-cars in the sense that they are ready to race and have a hard edge which is too hard for most riders.

As to the muscle cars of yore, my point was that small cars do not rule in most's minds when it comes to 'sports car'. Clearly some were driven by moderate owners but at least a few were driven that quarter mile at a time. I personally look at any car with sporty options or, worse, speed mods, as one to avoid because nobody does that to drive moderately. If you don't, then you don't. This is to the good since both of us will likely never be chasing the same car.

I'm interested in your reply if my post above gens one in you but if you wish to drop out, I can see that too.
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Old 07-01-2019, 07:55 PM
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The bigger question is if you're buying used why wouldn't you want both these options? Not having them is a compromise. If you had the choice to have those options, would you want them? If the answer is yes, then I'd wait for the right car. Period.

Now as far as how useful the options are. Sport Chrono I use all the time. It allows you to lower the car, it has a very spirited suspension and transmission feel. The sport chrono timer and mapping feature is cool, and the clock on the dash is a nice touch. The sport exhaust really makes zero difference inside of the car. You can certainly tell outside of the car. I wanted it, because I think it makes the car more valuable as a feature. I hardly every hit the switch. I can't remember if sport chrono automatically opens the exhaust or not all the time, but I believe it does under throttle.Get everything you want on the car, and don't settle. These cars are too expensive and too wonderful to compromise on what you really want out of it. No one buys a Porsche because it give you the most bang for the buck. My opinion is get both, but the SportChrono is a 100% must. Like many options, it should be standard on any V8 trim.

People buy Porsche branded cars, because they are perceived, and rightfully so, to be one of the pinnacle vestiges of engineering and design in the automotive industry. My Panamera is without question the best put together and driving car I've ever owned. At $186,000 sticker, hell no it wouldn't be worth it over several other cars, but that isn't the point. Whomever the first owner was, they bought it because its a Porsche, and there is some special sauce that few makers have. That's just a fact. The Panamera isn't the best "deal" in performance sedans. The Panamera isn't the always the quickest or fastest in every performance test, but its pretty much always right there chasing it. The Panamera, is a true luxury sedan, with a full usable back seat, with zero compromise on headroom, zero comprise on ride quality to set a ring record, zero compromise on fit and finish to save a couple hundred pounds, and zero compromise on material options and appointments for those unwilling to pay. Sure some people have beat Porsche ring records with vehicles such as the CIVIC SI, and the Stelvio QV. But both of those cars are a rough riding, rattle ridden, plasticky, cheap trim, cheap sticking, cheap leather, hollow door, road noise having, tooth crunching car. What is the point to having a luxury car that drives like a damn brick to get 10 seconds on a track no one will every @$##(%@# drive on every again? How long is the race, how fast is the track? Because I guarantee there are some tracks where the Panamera is going to blow some of these strippers out of the water, and do it with full, real leather interiors, beautiful stitching, and inside a sound cocoon of Bermester bliss. That doesn't matter to some people, which is why they don't own a Porsche. Its an expression of "because I can" not "because I need it". Hell no one needs more than 250 HP in a car. Since when are cars simply about needs. PFFFFFT.

I can't fathom how anyone can consider the Panamera an ugly car. Its a perfect reflection of form follows function. That means that not every angle is perfect, or that the aesthetics couldn't be improved. It simply means that the car was designed with purpose, and the car is a reflection of that purpose by design. I guess I appreciate that, and see the beauty in it, even with the exaggerated rear section!

Porsche has ridiculous option packages that are overpriced, way too many colors, finishes, and trims to choose from, and rely on brand loyalty to demand a premium. I would say, that the PCA club that I'm part of is at least as active and more so in some cases than any GM, Ford, or Mopar enthusiast organizations I've ever been involved with. That was a surprise. There is a passion for the brand, that is even deeper than BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, and those have some very loyal fanboys. I don't exactly know what it is, but Porsche is different, and its going to be hard not to make my next car either a newer Panamera or a 911. I don't know if its because the key is on the wrong side, or if its the special attention to detail such as the little piece of glass beside each side mirror. Porsche is just extra.

Last edited by Paul Rathjen; 07-01-2019 at 08:21 PM.
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