krabman

@Dryadsdad I wasn't trying to shirk you, I don't think your opinions are without some validity and there are certainly buyers out there such as you describe, I just don't think they're average or represent the majority. In a quick search I pulled up 40 for the Macan, 42 and 47 for the Cayman (I don't know which is right, I clicked a couple links and got a bit of disagreement on the number), 52 for the 911, and 57 for the Panamera. I'm not representing these numbers as accurate but the search teasers where showing similar numbers so I suspect they go ballpark if nothing else. The implication is that New car Panamera owners are as or more likely to be burping their grandchildren than raising their own. I personally bought the car because it's way more fun than an SUV while still being pretty darn useful, don't know where that puts me in terms of the average owner but I suspect others had similar reasoning. I think it's a fantastic car, don't get me wrong about that, I bought in and don't regret it even if I did feel cheated by the options gambit. I got over it.

Edit... I was going to add in more to the thread in general but accidentally hit the button to post while I was scrolling my laptop. I wanted to add on the sport exhaust that it's more than just two different paths with a valve, you've also got the programming that gives it more aggressive up and downshift blats, pops and burbles, etc. This in case some prospective buyers think it just adds the button to the setup screen. Also important regarding the mode button is that if you get a 971 you can setup individual to have the start/stop disabled right at your fingertips without having to access the infotainment screen. An important point until someone figures out how to disable it for people like me that hate start/stop. I'm setup with individual being sport, exhaust closed, start/stop off, wing down, which I find the best combo for city traffic. I drop it into normal when the road opens up to get the smoother ride and more appropriate gears for highway use. When having fun I find sport is best in automatic and sport plus for manual shifting both of which were good to go the way they were so I didn't change them. The takeaway from that is I actually use them because they are instantly accessible, if I had to switch to home or the setup screen I doubt I would use them half as much.

Foreste1

Does sports chrono make the car have air suspension? I have read that can be issue in these cars.

Strassenkurven

the sport exhaust on my 970.2 Turbo S, when turned on, is only quiet if I'm in comfort and not pushing the engine at all.

If I push the engine some, in comfort, the exhaust makes very obvious noises.. and I have the thermal insulated glass.

In sport and sport plus, the burbles & pops happen, so it's more obvious. Otherwise, it's louder more often, because the car revs up a lot more easily.

In sport and sport plus, if I really rev up the engine, the car is really loud.. it turns heads. It's still pretty quiet when not revving in sport (sport plus keeps the revs higher automatically), other than the burbles (which are pretty loud in a garage or tunnel).

It's definitely not as loud inside the car.. but there's no doubt that it's louder. With a window cracked.. wow!

I honestly don't know why people say these cars are quiet with sport exhaust. My car is pretty loud if I want it to be.

Strassenkurven

No.. air suspension is a separate option.
Sport Plus automatically lowers the car if you have air suspension. Otherwise, it just stiffens up the dampers (assuming you have adjustable suspension), changes the throttle, shifting, and steering, opens up sport exhaust if you have it, stiffens up dynamic anti-roll bars of you have them, changes the rear spoiler behaviour, etc.

Some of these are selectable separately, but the Sport Plus packages everything together and enables a few more things (like launch control, new settings, etc).

dryadsdad

Heck, this is a casual discussion on the Internet between several who are anonymous to each other. It's hardly a crucible of intense thought or decision. If you wish to demur and we meet again, I'd hardly hold that against you. I use this and other sites as relaxation and to gain information. I do personally know several on this site but nobody who's regularly in the Panamera section.

That's good info on the sports exhaust none of which I knew about. Like the Chrono, if someone offered me one for free, I'd take it. It didn't affect our buy decision that our target car lacked both since to us, the car and its nature/color/price outweighed "it'd be nice" sorts of options but we'd surely look at both options as a bonus if they came on our target car. Where we are, once my wife focused on the Panny, we were in a narrow position since I've never even seen on driving in my state. So it's not like I had a huge array to choose from. In the past, I've traveled to buy/view bikes finding it's often futile since so many disappoint and very soon my travel expenses add up increasing the basis cost to scary levels. I chose not to travel out of state for this purchase.

I'm supposing those age per car numbers are for new cars which makes sense, but for every new car purchase, there are anywhere from one to a dozen used car purchases on that same vehicle. While some family men may be able to swing $110k - $150k for a Panny, my guess would be those guys would target good used or CPO cars at a major discount. However, I do not know for sure. It's all speculation on my side.

The other aspect, at least for me, is I see no value in even hearing the exhaust note in an auto transmission. I'm just sitting there like a useless lump while the car and ghosts of engineers make all the shifting decisions. To me, this is the polar opposite of how I view a manual in an air cooled 911. Working those cars well and having them sound like you're working them well is a joy.

Oh, and we agree on this car vs. an SUV. We had a Cayenne TT which neither of us liked. I was particularly irked by the transmission which persistently gave me the feeling that the car's engine was attached to its drivetrain by rubber bands and weak ones at that. The PDK in the Panny is much better. I tried the manual setting but found it rather silly since, with no clutch, I didn't get any sense of connecting to or more closely controlling the car.

Later this month we're off for a two thousand or more mile road trip with the Panny instead of the bikes. I'm looking forward to the trip.

Foreste1

Thanks to everyone! Great to know I can have chrono plus without air suspension, dont want that option. I am getting closer on a couple cars this weekend, we will see!

Outlaw

[QUOTE=dryadsdad;15947327]Heck, this is a casual discussion on the Internet between several who are anonymous to each other. It's hardly a crucible of intense thought or decision. If you wish to demur and we meet again, I'd hardly hold that against you. I use this and other sites as relaxation and to gain information. I do personally know several on this site but nobody who's regularly in the Panamera section.

That's good info on the sports exhaust none of which I knew about. Like the Chrono, if someone offered me one for free, I'd take it. It didn't affect our buy decision that our target car lacked both since to us, the car and its nature/color/price outweighed "it'd be nice" sorts of options but we'd surely look at both options as a bonus if they came on our target car. Where we are, once my wife focused on the Panny, we were in a narrow position since I've never even seen on driving in my state. So it's not like I had a huge array to choose from. In the past, I've traveled to buy/view bikes finding it's often futile since so many disappoint

We we need an array of Panamera' inventory for you sir.

How exactly does an option on a car affect your buying decisions if “you don’t know about it”. What if it was free and you didn’t like it?

If your into bikes, how can you not be into the exhaust. Toke on brother.

The other aspect, at least for me, is I see no value in even hearing the exhaust note in an auto transmission. I'm just sitting there like a useless lump while the car and ghosts of engineers make all the shifting decisions. To me, this is the polar opposite of how I view a manual in an air cooled 911. Working those cars well and having them sound like you're working them well is a joy.

krabman

Perception is the key. I've had much, much, louder cars and this one is comparatively quiet. Realistically it's quieter that what I think of as loud in some objective terms I cant quantify with measurements but rather by what is possible and what isn't possible. As an example it is easy to talk inside at any throttle setting and conversation is in no way hindered by the exhaust, on the other hand I haven't set off a single car alarm. These kinds of things tell me it's not as loud as (some) others which cant jump that same bar.

dryadsdad

[QUOTE=Outlaw;15957685]Don’t toke being I’m competing in the ‘most boring person’ contest. I’m doing well. As a lifelong rider, I did have an interest in a lot of exhaust noise when young, but not now. I have no rationale. It’s simply what it is.

Paul Rathjen

Put the windows down on a Panamera with sport exhaust turned on. Its plenty loud. Again, I don't understand why you'd want a $200,000 executive luxury car, to sound like a 1979 mopar with glasspacks ever, let alone experience that kind of exhaust volume while inside of the car! BUT THATS JUST ME!

dryadsdad

I agree 100% but I also respect that we own these cars so each does what he thinks best. My only gripe about sound is the loud tire noise over chip sealed surfaces. Next re-tire I’ll address that. Running Contis now.

krabman

As I said in the first place when responding to the OP... Exhaust is subjective. take a car with each for a spin and make an assessment. In terms of performance cars that I've owned which are quite a few this car has a sound volume that is at most average with the exhaust open, no questions asked below average with it closed. That's stock BTW, before installing headers and that sort of thing. As to what suits the car... Again, as I said in the first place, the stock dual mode exhausts fits the personality of the car perfectly IMO, quiet when I want and I car hear what I consider music at the touch of a button. I love dual mode exhausts, my opinion is not however a global constant and others will disagree.

The takeaway has never been how loud an exhaust should be, it's been that a dual mode exhaust taken by itself is win. For some it's a win they never asked for because they don't want to hear the motor making it 3k better spent elsewhere. Drive the car with each and a buyer is going to know where they stand with it and that answer will be exactly right.

Paul Rathjen

The All season pilot sports seem to be pretty quiet on my car, and they aren't new. Sometimes tires just get old and hard too. Sticky tires are more noisy in my experience, but the Panamera does a pretty good job of hiding the road noise. You could also try putting some mass loaded vinyl in the wheel wells.

Conti are hit and miss with noise. Pirelli always seem more noisy to me. Pilot sport summers are ok, but very stick so over some surfaces really load.

Strassenkurven

I understand what you're saying, but I really don't think these cars are quiet if you rev them out with the sport exhaust. If you keep the revs low.. they are pretty quiet.

When I'm going under an overpass and running the engine at near red line, or if I downshift under an overpass.. people turn their heads.

I did drive into work this morning in a pretty relaxed fashion, in sport mode, most of the way. The exhaust was pretty quiet and not very noticeable except for the occasional burble. But if I'm in sport plus (thus, the revs can get higher with less effort) and I'm driving in a more fun fashion, there's nothing quiet about this car.

Strassenkurven

I generally agree. In comfort and sport modes, with sport exhaust on, the car just sounds like an automatic with a noticeable exhaust. I'm not a huge fan.
But with sport plus the car sounds more like it has noticeable gear changes that sound more like a very fast manual.. more deliberate as well. When driving the car aggressively, in sport plus, the sport exhaust sounds exactly how I want it to sound

I understand what you're saying. The car is generally quiet, and even with sport exhaust on it's not very loud most of the time. But if you put the windows down, drive under an overpass, and then rev the engine up to red line, the car is really quite loud. It's not straight-pipe loud.. but the sound really carries and it gets heads to turn (as do downshifts.. love that noise).

On a scale, I'd put a non-sport exhaust panamera v8 a little above the quiet end of the scale. With sport exhaust and lower revs, not pushing the engine much, it's somewhere in the middle of the scale. The exhaust is a little noticeable, but most people just ignore it. In sport or sport plus, full throttle, sport exhaust on, second half of the rev range, I think the car is below the loudest of factory cars, but louder than most other sports cars.