rodcord

Hi All;

I'm flirting with the idea of buying my first Porsche, with a family of four (2 young kids) the Panamera is the obvious choice. There is so much information about issues (brakes, suspension, spoiler, oil leaks, etc) that I'm wondering about the reliability of this car (thinking about buying COP). Is there any particular model/year I should be away from? Any other advice?


Thanks;

saeyedoc

First decision is NA vs turbo. All the newer models are turbos, they're fast, but a much different feel and sound. Newer ones have better tech too. We've bought two CPO, a '12 Base, loved it, no repair issues. Got totaled recently when a guy ran a stop sign, very safe car, my wife had only minor scrapes even though the air bag deployed. Picked up a '13 GTS, amazing power and sound, bought an extended warranty on top of the two year CPO, so not really worried about issues.

cometguy

I'd stay away from pre-2014 models, from S-Hybrid models (because their all-electric range is so poor, and they are heavier with 2-wheel-drive only), and from the brand new cars. Get a one-owner Porsche-certified Panamera 2014-2016 because the prices are decent compared to the new cars, especially for your first Porsche. I found that the Panamera 4 has plenty of power without going to the ones with more horsepower. CPO cars with low-ish mileages will have pretty good warranties, and owners are usually pretty good at taking care of them. Make sure that tires and brakes are not about to need replacing, as they are expensive. If you're inside 7k or 8k miles from the last 10k-mile servicing, make the dealership do a full servicing so that you'll not have to do it again for 10k miles; it isn't cheap. I personally highly recommend getting the air suspension so that you can raise the car 1.5-2 inches when you come to big dips or bumps in the road (only works at 18 mph or less) -- helps prevent bottoming out, though the car is a respectable 5.5-6 inches in ground clearance to start with. My first Porsche was a 2015 Panamera 4 with 86k miles on it that I got for $39k; I liked it so much that I ended up buying a brand new 2018 Panamera 4 E-Hybrid Sport Turismo, but I was glad that I started with a used CPO car in great shape to see if I liked Panameras (and 4-door Porsches) enough to buy new.

ciaka

My advice, before you buy, choose if you prefer to save a lot of money by doing DIY, or if you are OK spending $$$ if something does go wrong. If you are not OK spending, may not be good choice for you. Not that cars are unreliable. In contrast, I see these as very reliable. Probably most reliable daily driver super car you will ever have.
If things do go wrong, or maintenance needs doing, you will have to choose. Car will run good as long as all is maintained well.

If you OK with fixing, get diagnostic solution (like durametric, PIWIS2, etc). I have Durametric.
Then, make sure you take candidate car to shop that services porsche/panameras. They will know what to look for .
Review my thread about service intervals for panamera. It will tell you what to look for as well.
Once you find something, and are good with how it feels and drives, take it and enjoy the heck out of it.

rodcord

@Cometguy: Thanks a lot for the advice!! really helpful.

Let me ask you another question now that you have a 4 E-Hybrid: what is the real life MPG?

Thanks again!

cometguy

My car computer says 31.5 mpg since i got the car, and I'm now just shy of 13k miles on the odometer. About 2/3 of that mileage was from two long trips (for which I was consistently getting about 29 mpg in mostly Hybrid Auto mode, with no plugging in at night), the rest from local commuting (getting close to 38 mpg total, but lots of days going with little to no gas usage at all because of 25-mile actual all-electric range, after plugging in overnight in my garage most nights). I've gone up to 900 miles without getting gas when just doing local commuting, where I'm plugging in every night for a full charge the next day (and I get gas at 1/4 to 1/3 full, so I could easily go 1200 miles or more without filling up if I tried). My E-Hybrid is a fabulous car; I do wish it had an 18-kWh battery pack (or larger), to get more like 30-40 miles of all-electric range, but the 14-kWh pack is way better than the 10-kWh pack of the first-generation Porsche Hybrids (Panamera and Cayenne, both of which I had some extensive test-driving of, and which I'd not bother with because of their pathetic low electric range). For me, there's great joy in not going to a gas station for 3 weeks or more at a time, when just driving locally, and I really prefer the quiet electric motor to the loud gas engine when driving -- something that caught me by surprise with a Porsche!

lexhair

As a first time Porsche owner (2014 Panamera 4 CPO), I thought I'd jump in but @cometguy has it covered. I won't opine on pre-2014 models but there are deals to be had on pre-owned Panameras out there. In fact, there's one in the Marketplace which has been there a while and is very reasonably priced based (imo) on the data in the listing.

Paul Rathjen

I would not limit yourself to 2014+ models, the rear end looks worse anyway on the refresh! In my opinion I would go 2012+ and the best deals right now are in the low mile 2012-2013 year model. You can't get CPO but you can find some strong warranty coverage from other sources. I was able to fin a 2012 Turbo S with 35,000 miles and purchased a 4yr/48 exclusionary package from Ally for $4500, with a very small list of specific non covered items.

The 2010-2011 and some early 2012 worked out some issues with the platform, but honestly the Panamera is far more reliable than BMW, Benz, and Audi in every category. There is no car, nor any platform that doesn't have issues. At least with the Panamera, you have a very very rare occurrence of transmission and motor failures. There are some complains about air ride and front suspensions, as well as AOS Air Oil Separators, and color line glues starting to fail. Most of things can be discovered now preemptively because the car has been around long enough, and you can even find DIY guides online. Overall the Panamera like the Porsche brand is the most reliable luxury and sports car brand, and is typically top 5 every year for most reliable makes in almost every survey; however, they are also very expensive to fix. 2014 does get some better 360 cameras, and some PCM updates to NAV and other things. I do like the front end on the 2014 refresh but not the rear as much.

Recalls(you can check the VIN on the Porsche website prior to purchase):
1) Some kind of cam sensor thing - I forget all of the details .
2) 2010-2011 some 2012 Turbo and Turbo S - turbo recall. For the Turbo S the Ti fancy spooling turbos were prone to failure so they replaces the internals.

Known Issues (people help me out here):
1) Front suspension end links and bushings get noise - this is particularly an issue on 2010-2011 and high mileage cars.
2) Air shocks leak which eventually causes the compressor to fail from getting hot trying to keep up with the leaks. Its expensive to fix, but not nearly as expensive if you can fix some of this yourself or use an independent shop, but for sure check these systems prior to purchase.
3) Air Oil separator can go bad, causing extra vacuum. You can supposedly feel the extra vacuum making the oil cap difficult to remove when the car is under idle. This may or may not throw a code, but generally always leads to excessive oil consumption. 1 QT every 3000-4000 is pretty much the norm, but Porsche says even twice that amount of consumption is normal.....
4) Carbon build up is normal for V8 TT cars in many brands. The Porsche is no exception. Its advised to clean the valves after a significant number of miles.
5) Coolant lines have a problem with the epoxy glue failing and causing leaks. This has been solved by replacement and or adding clamps.
6) Some hoses have dried up and cracked a bit prematurely - good thing to look for.


Maintenance:

I can't give all of the maintenance schedules off the top of my head, and it varies between the different Panamera models, but generally there is some minor service the first 20,000 miles, a major service at 40-50000 miles, and then nothing major until 60-70,000 miles. The mid way point, which is what to watch out for is spark plugs, all the diff fluids, PDK fluids, brake fluids. You want to make sure you have records of when all these were performed, or I would make sure that you negotiate them being done as part of the purchases. They are not incredibly expensive, but they are not cheap when added together, and you really want to get a used car that someone performed all maintenance on anyway.

Oil consumption can become a maintenance item as outlined above. You will need to add a 1/2-1 qt every few thousand miles. Its the same on other twin turbo cars.

The brakes and rotors I would check as well. They are also not cheap, but honestly not nearly as expensive and those for say an RS7 or some other similar cars to replace. Well unless you have the carbon brakes option, then you want to make sure they are not damaged in ANY way. Those are I think $3000-4000 each or something crazy to replace, but you won't ever have to replace them.....

saeyedoc

Why can't you get CPO? As long as it's less than 6 years old you can. We just bought a '13 that was CPO.

Paul Rathjen

The bigger question are what option lists you want. There are a ton of color choices and trim choices, and endless gadget options and they are slightly different based on the actual model.

Adaptive cruise is an extra option
Lane sense, and the more advanced lane assist in the 2014+ model is an extra
I think the 2014+ might have a automatic braking feature that's an extra
Burmester stereo is an option
Heated Steering wheel is an extra
wood or carbon trim steering wheel is an extra
There is a sport or multifunction steering wheel option
There are 3-4 different seat choices from the basic to the full adaptive sport seats
There is a sport design exterior package which a different front bumper, and slightly different rocker panels and rear diffuser based on the trim its going on. I think the GTS gets this standard.
There is a black optics like package, I forget the exact option term, that blackouts the chrome exterior trim and vents.
There are heated seated, heated and cooled seats for both the front and the back, all different option packages
There is partial or full front to rear climate controls
There are rear side window and rear window automatic shade options
There are executive rear seat options, and an executive option that gives a larger rear seat
Carbon Brakes and non carbon brakes
PDCC dynamic chasis control
PASM
Air ride
PTV Torque vectoring system
Turbo, S Turbo
RWD, AWD
V6, V8, V8TT, V8TTS

Have fun searching - its half of the fun!

c4racer

Yes you can get a 2013 and maybe even a 2012 as a CPO. I picked up a 24K mike 2013 S (last year of the NA V8) as CPO 4 months ago. I love it.zero regrets. Sure I would rather have a 2013-2015 GTS but those are above the price point I was trying to hold and I picked condition, Miles and options over the extra 40hp. I could have spent more but just didn't want to. I have too many cars and a lot of $ tied up in cars in general.