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Aluminium Bolts in 4.8L broken engine?!

Old 01-08-2018, 07:36 AM
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Panamerabuyer
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Default Aluminium Bolts in 4.8L broken engine?!

Hi All,

I'm about to purchase a Panamera 4S 2011 in Hong Kong (drives on the right hand side). There have been no recalls related to the Aluminium bolts broken in the camshaft.

I just heard about this and worried about this issue. Any input is appreciated


I have a few questions that I hope you fellow Panamera owners can help me answer that could lead me to a purchase:
1. I will get an inspection done, if the bolts are aluminium should I be staying away from this car? Or should I get it replaced with steel right away and make the purchase?
2. There seems to be no recalls related to this, shouldn't Porsche fix this for free, if not what are the costs to fix it so the engine doesn't blow up?
3. Is this a concern at all or am I over-worried?
4. Any other important info to share, it can help a lot of potential/current Panamera owners
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:26 AM
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TAG ceo
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Buy a car with a warranty or buy an extended warranty from the dealer when you purchase. You do not want to own one of these cars without that protection. They are well made, but a small problem will cost hundreds and a large problem will cost thousands to fix.
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Old 01-08-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TAG ceo View Post
Buy a car with a warranty or buy an extended warranty from the dealer when you purchase. You do not want to own one of these cars without that protection. They are well made, but a small problem will cost hundreds and a large problem will cost thousands to fix.
I'm planning to fund fixes myself as there's many independent shops here that specializes in Germans, I am just worried about the:
1. front end noise
2. Camshaft bolts

I'm planning to get these two things fix out of pocket (especially the camshaft bolts since it'll be much cheaper if it haven't caused damage yet), then fund things myself along the way, besides these two things the rest should seem expensive as there seems to be many good reliability comments about the Panamera, what do you think?
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Panamerabuyer View Post
I'm planning to fund fixes myself as there's many independent shops here that specializes in Germans, I am just worried about the:
1. front end noise
2. Camshaft bolts

I'm planning to get these two things fix out of pocket (especially the camshaft bolts since it'll be much cheaper if it haven't caused damage yet), then fund things myself along the way, besides these two things the rest should seem expensive as there seems to be many good reliability comments about the Panamera, what do you think?
There is a recall for these camshaft bolts, AH08, parts are presumed available in the US in January. My understanding of the situation is that there have not been many failures.
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Old 01-08-2018, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by TAG ceo View Post
Buy a car with a warranty or buy an extended warranty from the dealer when you purchase. You do not want to own one of these cars without that protection. They are well made, but a small problem will cost hundreds and a large problem will cost thousands to fix.
Originally Posted by pmichaelis View Post
There is a recall for these camshaft bolts, AH08, parts are presumed available in the US in January. My understanding of the situation is that there have not been many failures.
I hope not many failures too. But I guess I should replace my bolts to steel if the inspection checks that they are aluminium for safety measures?

Does 2011s have more aluminium steel bolts than the 2012s?
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:32 PM
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I believe the replacement bolts are titanium and currently not readily available.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pmichaelis View Post
There is a recall for these camshaft bolts, AH08, parts are presumed available in the US in January. My understanding of the situation is that there have not been many failures.
So my 2011 Turbo had this failure last week and is now in the shop. The failure damaged one of the oil feeds to the cam gear. Even though it caused small damage, the head has to be replaced.



New head


Easier to pull the engine to replace the head
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Old 01-27-2018, 12:34 AM
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Two weeks ago I bought a 2011 Cayenne S with 50k under recall and had it corrected Tuesday. Silver/Beige car.

Love this beast. It's amazing. Tomorrow will be changing TC fluid though. Noticed after I signed and drove the next day. I'll say that driving it daily and putting it through its paces it seems somewhat better. But a change is indeed required. Funny I hoped it was a joint on a shaft only to land on a known TC issue when I began my search. Oh well. I'm certain it'll improve greatly with fluid changes. Feels like clutches are binding, not slipping. Dunno, it's nasty.

Although I didn't buy it with working on it in mind I work on all my cars and I can already see I'll be able to work on this. Sometimes.
Probably needs a water pump. I swear it looks like I could do 3 of these to 1 wrong wheel drive Volvo. (Traded a Turbo wagon). But it is intimidating.

Anyway great to be here. I'm in forums for a bunch of vehicles but this is like a leap into new territory. I appreciate what I've already learned and hope to contribute.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:37 AM
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Mine failed about 4 weeks ago. Just normal driving on Interstate about 80 mph. Broke the cam shaft, timing chain, timing chain cover and generally wrecked the engine. I have been without it for 4 weeks but supposed to get it back this week. No charge to me other than replacing the serpentine belt and all the coils they are doing for just the cost of the parts since it is already out. I got a new long block and new heads from Stuttgart. Folks at Porsche of Destin have been great to work with and they seem to know what they are doing.

If you have one of these cars, my suggestion, don't drive it until you get the bolts replaced. There was no warning, no noise of any kind, just went from a smooth 1,800 rpm to dead.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:09 PM
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Default They use aluminum bolts for a reason

It is out of necessity that Porsche uses aluminum bolts. Its not because of weight savings, but because of the magnesium engine block. Using steel mating with magnesium will cause electrolysis.and the alloys will corrode. They can use other alloys for strength but that would be very expensive. Titanium comes to mind. Other than aerospace usage, titanium is just too expensive.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DGPanny View Post
Mine failed about 4 weeks ago. Just normal driving on Interstate about 80 mph. Broke the cam shaft, timing chain, timing chain cover and generally wrecked the engine. I have been without it for 4 weeks but supposed to get it back this week. No charge to me other than replacing the serpentine belt and all the coils they are doing for just the cost of the parts since it is already out. I got a new long block and new heads from Stuttgart. Folks at Porsche of Destin have been great to work with and they seem to know what they are doing.

If you have one of these cars, my suggestion, don't drive it until you get the bolts replaced. There was no warning, no noise of any kind, just went from a smooth 1,800 rpm to dead.

This is for all here. I posted this on a separate thread about the AH08. PCNA has set up a separate claim number and website to deal with this issue. Email and phone number information is below:


[email protected]
www.camshaftadjusterrecall.com
877-919-6430

It is absolutely beyond me that PCNA can get away with this. Not use your car? Really? I have several vehicles but most people globally have only 1 car. At one point my Panamera Turbo was my only car. This is just unacceptable. Good luck to everyone and please post your experiences with this replacement.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JAB12 View Post
This is for all here. I posted this on a separate thread about the AH08. PCNA has set up a separate claim number and website to deal with this issue. Email and phone number information is below:


[email protected]
www.camshaftadjusterrecall.com
877-919-6430

It is absolutely beyond me that PCNA can get away with this. Not use your car? Really? I have several vehicles but most people globally have only 1 car. At one point my Panamera Turbo was my only car. This is just unacceptable. Good luck to everyone and please post your experiences with this replacement.

Also I have attached a .pdf of the claim form available at this website with mailing address to get reimbursed for out of pocket expenses associated with this.
Attached Images
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by henryting View Post
It is out of necessity that Porsche uses aluminum bolts. Its not because of weight savings, but because of the magnesium engine block. Using steel mating with magnesium will cause electrolysis.and the alloys will corrode. They can use other alloys for strength but that would be very expensive. Titanium comes to mind. Other than aerospace usage, titanium is just too expensive.
They could have bought a lot of titanium bolts for the $30k they just spent replacing my engine. Can't believe I am the only one who has actually had this fail.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:34 PM
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Default German over-engineering ?

I hear you. Its a classical example of German over/under engineering. My daily driver, a BMW 328I had a same mishap that two aluminum bolts snapped right at the mating between the bed-plate and the magnesium engine block and they had to pull the engine out to fix it. I caused a big stink with photos and everything and escalated it to BMW NA. They decided to fix it for free. I can't imagine if I had to pay for it and I might as well write off the car. Good thing is that they did a good job and consider how major the work involved, I couldn't find anything wrong afterwards. I bet the tech that worked on my car was hissing and cussing at BMW for such stupidity while working on my car.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DGPanny View Post
They could have bought a lot of titanium bolts for the $30k they just spent replacing my engine. Can't believe I am the only one who has actually had this fail.
IMATUR had the failure as well. I am garaging my car until my replacement appointment on 02/28/18 at Champion Porsche. It will be trailered there as will not drive it. I will post the progress and outcome and will not settle for anything less than a 991.2 S or higher as a loaner. It's the least they can do.
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