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Panamera reliability (Or lack thereof)

Old 12-14-2017, 11:52 AM
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Phil_PPTT
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Default Panamera reliability (Or lack thereof)

I purchased a CPO 2012 Panamera Turbo S with 45,000km / 30,000 miles in May 2017. Let me preface this post by saying I absolutely love the car when in it's my possession and not breaking down. The handling is superb, acceleration from a stop is amazing. The AWD system is fantastic. It inspires confidence and you can always hear this little voice saying, common push it just a little more it's ok I can take it.

Unfortunately the reliability has been awful. My two last cars were a 2008 E60 M5 and a 2013 F10 M5. The former being the least reliable M ever made and in less than 6 months of ownership I've had more problems than 7 years of M5 ownership combined. My car has been at the dealer over 2 months, with over 10 visits. I lost count.

I've been reading about Porsche's reliability for years and figured it was time for a switch. Am I just unlucky?


Issue #1: Upon accelerating from a stop water came out of the central vent onto the center console.
Honestly I was pretty shocked, scrambled to find something to soak it up and prevent water from seeping into the buttons.
Brought it in and the culprit was a clogged drain. I'm baffled how a drain can clog and cause water to leak inside the cabin.
Looked online and found others with this issue...

Issue #2: Got a coolant warning while driving. Pull over, call the dealership they say it's probably just a low coolant and bring it in.
Driving to the dealership the car starts over heating. I pull over and call a tow truck. Coolant is leaking everywhere under the car.
Radiator plug busted and all the coolant leaked out. Plug was replaced and they cleaned the engine compartment.

Issue #3: Wipers stop working, bring it in wiper motor is toast. Need to order parts.

Issue #4: TPMS failure. TPMS sensor replaced.

Issue #5: Oil pressure monitor error would come up intermittently for a second or two and then disappear. Car was in service for over 7 weeks for this issue.
Oil sensor replaced. Pick up the car drive 3km and the error comes on...
Oil pump to be replaced, parts not available have to order from Germany.
While removing the turbo's one of the studs broke, turbo's needed to be replaced. Parts not available have to order from Germany.

Issue #6: Got a power steering fluid error. Call the dealership, closed system should not happen bring it in.
Power steering hose leaked, had to be replaced and clean the engine bay of leaked fluid.

Issue #7: Opening the car door the latch / bolt that holds the car door from opening too wide just snaps right off.

Issue #8: Suspension noise when car is cold. For the first 10 minutes or so, until something warms up I suppose, I get a pretty loud crunching sound going over any type of incline / bump where the suspension travels.
I've brought the car in 3 times for this issue. Still investigating no resolution yet.
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:56 PM
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cerbomark
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That does sound excessive from what I read. Earlier years probably had more issues. My 2015 with 23K has never been to dealer.
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:16 PM
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Issue #1: There is a plastic grate at the base of the windshield cowl on the passenger side at the hood hinge to catch debris. Older models may not have this and should be addressed via a recall or TSB. There is no grate on the driver's side, as it does not pose a problem (?). My 2013 has the grate on the right side.

Issue #3: My 2013 had a recall or TSB addressed by the dealer prior to pick-up. Perhaps related?

Issue #4: TPMS battery have a life of 5 to 6 years (?). A Durametric diagnostic tool will show the life remaining on each sensor.

Issue #8: Search the forum and internet. There are a number of threads on the suspension noise.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:44 AM
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my 2015 pan4 is rock solid @ 34K ... no issues, except few small items windows switch, but they are under warranty . I heard that the prior to 2014 Panamera had many issues.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:08 PM
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skiracer
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I also acquired a PTT in May of this year (2010 w/ ~30k miles) and haven't had too many issues at all. When I put on my winter tires/wheels I got a TPMS error, and the suspension does make some noise when cold. My Audi W12 had a similar air suspension system and did the same thing so it doesn't bother me.

I've put over 10k miles on the car so far and it's only been in for an oil change. It seems to burn less than 1 qt of oil over 5k miles of driving which seems acceptable. I had a 996 previously that was the most reliable car I've ever owned and it influenced my decision to go w/ the PTT. So far, so good...very sorry to hear your car has been in the shop so often. I'm not sure if I've been lucky or if you've been unlucky? Most of your issues have been surfaced on this forum - I'd be more concerned w/ the cam adjuster bolts and the air compressor issues.

Hopefully the CPO is covering you - I sure wish I had something but I'm on my own from here.
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Old 12-16-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by skiracer View Post
I also acquired a PTT in May of this year (2010 w/ ~30k miles) and haven't had too many issues at all. When I put on my winter tires/wheels I got a TPMS error, and the suspension does make some noise when cold. My Audi W12 had a similar air suspension system and did the same thing so it doesn't bother me.

I've put over 10k miles on the car so far and it's only been in for an oil change. It seems to burn less than 1 qt of oil over 5k miles of driving which seems acceptable. I had a 996 previously that was the most reliable car I've ever owned and it influenced my decision to go w/ the PTT. So far, so good...very sorry to hear your car has been in the shop so often. I'm not sure if I've been lucky or if you've been unlucky? Most of your issues have been surfaced on this forum - I'd be more concerned w/ the cam adjuster bolts and the air compressor issues.

Hopefully the CPO is covering you - I sure wish I had something but I'm on my own from here.
Thankfully CPO has covered everything. I'm guessing the repair bill out of pocket would have been in the ten's of thousands so far. The oil pump / turbo replacement had 55 hours on it alone.

My dealer has been great, they provide me with a 2017 Cayenne every time. I feel like I've had more seat time in the Cayenne than my own car.

I can't blame my dealer for selling me this car, it was for sale at another Porsche dealer 5000km away. I hounded them to work out a deal and have it shipped cross-country. It wasn't easy but they made it happen.

Unfortunately the suspension noise is unbearable. I can live with squeaks and cracks, I'm really not that picky. I listen to music pretty loud but the noise can still be heard.

I spent the morning looking at threads and it seems fairly common. I guess they need to replace the bushings / possibly the control arms.

Here's a couple of video's:

Edit: Having trouble embedding the video's, here are the links:

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Old 12-16-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by skiracer View Post
I'd be more concerned w/ the cam adjuster bolts and the air compressor issues.
Forgot to mention they performed the cam adjuster bolt recall when the engine was out. So at least I don't have that to worry about.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:03 PM
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My dealer ordered bushings for both sides. I'm really hoping that clears my suspension noise.

And my bad luck continue's, I got a red spoiler failure message that was displayed for several minutes and it will no longer move. I'm guessing the motor is shot...
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Old 12-26-2017, 02:50 PM
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Wow - not sure if you got a lemon or if I'm just lucky, but my personal ownership experience couldn't be more different. I seem to burn a quart of oil every 5k miles which is the interval when I change it anyway. I've gotta go find some more wood to knock on!

Last edited by skiracer; 12-26-2017 at 02:51 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-27-2017, 04:17 PM
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Default My experience

So my experience with a pre-owned 2013 thus far has been decent (knock on faux woodgrain)

Bought it with 32K. In at 50K now. Two issues...

1. 02 Sensor (passenger side). Check engine light... Pulled codes. Dealer =$1300 Got it replaced for $475 local shop that works on German vehicles.

2. Crushing noise as you described in cold. Apparently a common issue (cheap bushings it seems). I haven't replaced them as it goes away in 5 mins of driving (warming the bushings). I will get to it at some point.

One thing I can tell you is German cars have the strangest issues (over engineered). But VW products (i.e. VW, Porsche, Bently and especially Audi) have the strangest.

The drain issue (water coming out of your vent) reminds me of my Q7. After a rainy day you'd come to the SUV and find puddles of water in your passenger side floor mats. Ahh that's why the dealer had all-weather mats installed upon purchase lol.

The culprit was clogged sunroof drains. Interesting. Every car I've owned pretty much had a sunroof and never that S issue. My Audi Q7 and my VW Phaeton were the most problematic vehicles I've ever owned. And I typically trade my cars every 2 years. Well that and a 2011 Dodge Durango Hemi with 50K miles that is having all sorts of engine issues (just when you thought American cars were getting better).

Good luck... For the water issue it's likely a clogged drain based on my experience. Leaf and acorn debris.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:41 AM
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Does anyone have any information about cleaning out the offending front passenger drain? I'm assuming it can't be easy enough to be on the car bottom, but is like my Cayenne where you had to peel back the fender liner?
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:22 PM
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avusm3
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Phil_PPTT

Have you made any progress on the suspension noise front? I have the same issue on my '12 4S - only makes noise when it is cold. Noise will go away if outside air temp is >40 degrees, but if it is cold outside <20F than the noise is always there.

I live in New Hampshire so this is an issue about 4-5 months out of the year for me.

I pulled down the front roll bar, fully cleaned and greased the bushings and put things back together and there was no change in the noise so I think its coming from the bushings in the A arms.

If anyone has found a real solution I would love to here it.

Thanks
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by avusm3 View Post
Phil_PPTT

Have you made any progress on the suspension noise front? I have the same issue on my '12 4S - only makes noise when it is cold. Noise will go away if outside air temp is >40 degrees, but if it is cold outside <20F than the noise is always there.

I live in New Hampshire so this is an issue about 4-5 months out of the year for me.

I pulled down the front roll bar, fully cleaned and greased the bushings and put things back together and there was no change in the noise so I think its coming from the bushings in the A arms.

If anyone has found a real solution I would love to here it.

Thanks
I had the bushings replaced a couple of days ago. I'm waiting for the temperature to drop as it's 10C right now. Oddly enough, for the last month, it's been between -15C and -30C. I won't have to wait long as the cold temps are back tomorrow. When I took the car out yesterday morning I did hear a sound but only for first 30 seconds of driving and much less pronounced then before. Previous to having the bushings replaced it took 5-10 minutes of driving.

For the spoiler issue, the motor is not broken but there's some small plastic pieces that broke preventing the spoiler from closing. Dealer had to order some parts.

I'm also getting intermittent chassis system failure messages. It seems fairly common with 2010-2012 Panamera's. I brought the issue up and was told this is normal and Porsche won't do anything until something breaks. So normal is getting an error message, driving the car with a big red screen for 10 minutes or so while the pump or something warms up. The car feels really strange during this time (Steering / engine response feels off). Then pull over, stop the car and re-start. I wish they advertised this awesome feature before I bought the car.

Some googling revealed there's an updated valve / compressor which is even more frustrating as clearly the original parts had an issue. Air compressor 97035815109 superseded to 97035815112. Valve 97035907506 superseded to 97035907507.
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:46 PM
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Another day, another failure. Sitting here waiting for a tow truck. Heater is broken, windshield is completely frosted. Can't drive anywhere.

Stopped the car, waited 5 minutes and now it's throwing a transmission error, start / stop failure, unable to read oil pressure.

At the end of my rope...
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Old 01-15-2018, 05:28 PM
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cerbomark
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Sorry man, That s excessive for any car.
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