SaratogaLefty

It appears the Panamera 4S and the Panamera 4 E-Hybrid have similar engines; both are 2.9 liter twin turbo but the 4S has a much higher boost level than the E-Hybrid. I'm wondering if there is a way to determine if there are different parts involved in allowing the boost to be increased on the 4S or if this is just an electronic difference. If in fact both engines are identical in mechanical parts then it would seem possible to increase the boost on the E-Hybrid via a chip change, correct?

Yoeris

I don't think they use different components for the internal engine (perhaps the turbos, but that would be easy to find out) because of the higher cost to develop two engines and assembly lines.

BMW did the same for their 3.0 petrol/diesel engines, only the turbo's were altered and maybe some changes to external engine parts like intercooler etc...

So yeah I think you can bring the petrol engine to the same level as the 4S, I mainly think the downtune is because of the status of the Panamera Turbo (and even Turbo Hybrid), they don't want the 'entry eco' Panny blowing away the Panny Turbo

SaratogaLefty

So how do we actually find out? You say its easy but I don't have any idea how to go about finding out what if any mechanical differences there are between the two engines???

Yoeris

Partnumbers on something like VAGnet, don't know if the engines are already online to find out.

SaratogaLefty

Since the same electrical motor is used with the Turbo S E-Hybrid, one would think there should not be any problem with it handling the increased HP of the 4S. Now all we have to figure out is how to upgrade the E-Hybrid engine to the 4S HP??

Yoeris

BR Performance is already developing an ecu tuning, it will take probably another couple of weeks/months.
But I am not sure if I would upgrade, after all it is a relative new technology and I wouldn't like to botch my warranty when something happens (tuning related or not).

XT6Wagon

once it gets uploaded to a place like Rockauto, its hard to hide changes. Its how I found out the 470hp and 510hp Jaguars have the same mechanical bits. Same part numbers for all the important bits.

I expect the transmission to have different part numbers regardless as I'd assume the e hybrid has more machining of the case to allow power transfer to the electric motor, and places to bolt mounts for cables.

But for the engine the camshafts and turbochargers are the two places I'd expect changes if there are to be any. Could get some efficiency by running a different exhaust housing on the turbos (longer spool time covered by torque fill from electric motor). Then more eco focused camshafts could get a little more there too. I'm not sure I'd change anything because parts commonality is a wonderful way to save money and any gas motor efficiency isn't going to show up in the window sticker thanks to the plug in hybrid.

SaratogaLefty

So how will we know when it gets uploaded to Rockauto and what to look for then? I'm thinking the transmission is probably the same as the Turbo S so it shouldn't have any problem handling increased HP, correct?

XT6Wagon

They list part numbers for the stuff they sell, so you can pretty quickly tell if two models have the same parts. I'm not sure if there is any better place for snagging Porsche part numbers.

Ford for example has the entire dealer parts counter information online so thats quite detailed and most often lists out the exact changes between models.

SaratogaLefty

So I found this in a write-up from the South Africa testing back in January. "This is the same engine that makes 440 horsepower in the Panamera S model, but the turbos are smaller and it makes 330 hp and 331 pound-feet of torque in the hybrid". So if the turbos are in fact smaller, then probably a limiting factor on increasing the HP up the 4S level. I do believe the boost on the 4S is much higher than the E-Hybrid but I assumed that was something that could be altered, but if the turbos are smaller than maybe not???

kennyboy993

This is a really old thread though I've seen people ask about differences between 4 e-hybrid engine and 4s e-hybrid and there's some saying the turbochargers are different, some saying it's just a mapping difference.

My 4 e-hybrid is getting remapped next month and it was important to me to understand if the engine would be running too much boost etc on smaller turbos so I did some research.

I believe these 2 links indicate the turbos and fuel system are identical between the 2 cars:

https://porsche.oempartsonline.com/o...xlY3RyaWMtZ2Fz

https://porsche.oempartsonline.com/o...xlY3RyaWMtZ2Fz

I've only selected 2 parts though seems good evidence - note both parts are fitment for both 4 e-hybrid and 4s e-hybrid

So if you're a 4 e-hybrid owner looking at getting a remap done and sceptical about the big gains quoted - hoping this calms those concerns a little

c17r15

The cylinder heads have different part numbers. 4EH cylinder heads have an A appended at the end. Perhaps milder cams?

kennyboy993

ah ok, good find

Yes maybe - though with the turbos and injectors the same the rest is presumably just getting the lower powered car running smoothly hence different heads. Have you got link to the heads?

edit:
Is this the head you saw?
https://porsche.oempartsonline.com/o...xlY3RyaWMtZ2Fz

The fitment shows 4 e-hybrid and also 4s e-hybrid?

rbhun

Hi
have you found out what’s the difference in 4/4S? I’m trying to get the same information. Is it only a mapping or are the turbos or crankshafts different?

how do you find the remap helped?

thanks