GT350
06-05-2016, 10:06 AM
#1066
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I did some quick searching on lap times and it does seem that the 350R is about as fast as the 991 GT3, and faster than the GT4. 350R is heavier, but torque, power, suspension, handling, and tires can make up for that. If it lasts on track and consumables aren't too expensive compared to the GT cars, the 350R does look like one of the best values out there.
06-05-2016, 10:08 AM
#1067
In every laptime I can find in fastestlaps, R is faster than GT4 and 997.2 GT3. I dont know how else I can prove this to you.
Remember, I keep saying "R". The base car and R are almost like two different cars. I have watched every single review, read every blog and review on all these cars. People assume R is just some package and they drive the base car and make their comparison based on that.
That being said, I highly doubt GT4 will beat even the base mustang. GT4 is slower than the 997.2 GT3 is it not? No one is questioning the nimble, lightweight, playful character of GT4. But make no mistake, a smaller car will always give you the wrong sense of fasteness - it will feel fast, but numbers may say otherwise in the end.
At 61k (assuming you get one at sticker one day), with a naturally aspirated engine, with a unique exhaust sound, and with a 6 speed, it indeed is a bargain. I was honestly very close to pulling the trigger on a mint 997, but now I am emailing Ford dealers in the hopes of finding an R. Hard to justify paying so much more for a 6-7 year old car with so much maintenance costs (coolant leak this, thermostat that, centerlock yada yada yada - just not practical when you have another alternative that meets all the criteria - AND brand new with 5 years of warranty!).
Remember, I keep saying "R". The base car and R are almost like two different cars. I have watched every single review, read every blog and review on all these cars. People assume R is just some package and they drive the base car and make their comparison based on that.
That being said, I highly doubt GT4 will beat even the base mustang. GT4 is slower than the 997.2 GT3 is it not? No one is questioning the nimble, lightweight, playful character of GT4. But make no mistake, a smaller car will always give you the wrong sense of fasteness - it will feel fast, but numbers may say otherwise in the end.
At 61k (assuming you get one at sticker one day), with a naturally aspirated engine, with a unique exhaust sound, and with a 6 speed, it indeed is a bargain. I was honestly very close to pulling the trigger on a mint 997, but now I am emailing Ford dealers in the hopes of finding an R. Hard to justify paying so much more for a 6-7 year old car with so much maintenance costs (coolant leak this, thermostat that, centerlock yada yada yada - just not practical when you have another alternative that meets all the criteria - AND brand new with 5 years of warranty!).
06-05-2016, 10:15 AM
#1068
I have heard this argument before with another domestic car, Z06. I almost bought one but guess what, that car had such a long list of annoyances, anything from poor cooling to build issues to cars havings lots and lots of just general QA issues. It left a sour taste in my mouth and I backed out. I am glad I did because I think I would have been unhappy in the end.
Ford Performance isnt like GM apparently. They are more like M in BMW (or what M used to be 10 years ago before corporate greed took over). They take pride in their work, their stuff is unbreakable, solid, and running costs of this car is pretty much nothing. It laps and laps without any cooling issues, its stock brakes are just simply impossible to beat, and car is so simple at the end of the day you dont have forced induction going wrong.
But... A big but, because Ford is only making 350 of them total in 2 years (that is rarer than cayman, rs, gt3 and almost as rare as 911R), its nearly impossible to find one and if you do, it costs 30-50k ADM which is ridiculous. So the 61k car is more like 100-120k car after taxes and everything. Sure money is no object to some of you, to me not as much and yes I could afford it even at that price point but I would hate myself for paying so much over sticker that it would ruin my ownership experience. I am hoping after summer, things will settle a bit and I can find one for 5k over.
06-05-2016, 10:37 AM
#1069
The faster gt3 times there are not the "official" ones. The official time for gt3 is 7:33 and rs 7:28. If you go with that, R is faster.
I have heard this argument before with another domestic car, Z06. I almost bought one but guess what, that car had such a long list of annoyances, anything from poor cooling to build issues to cars havings lots and lots of just general QA issues. It left a sour taste in my mouth and I backed out. I am glad I did because I think I would have been unhappy in the end.
Ford Performance isnt like GM apparently. They are more like M in BMW (or what M used to be 10 years ago before corporate greed took over). They take pride in their work, their stuff is unbreakable, solid, and running costs of this car is pretty much nothing. It laps and laps without any cooling issues, its stock brakes are just simply impossible to beat, and car is so simple at the end of the day you dont have forced induction going wrong.
But... A big but, because Ford is only making 350 of them total in 2 years (that is rarer than cayman, rs, gt3 and almost as rare as 911R), its nearly impossible to find one and if you do, it costs 30-50k ADM which is ridiculous. So the 61k car is more like 100-120k car after taxes and everything. Sure money is no object to some of you, to me not as much and yes I could afford it even at that price point but I would hate myself for paying so much over sticker that it would ruin my ownership experience. I am hoping after summer, things will settle a bit and I can find one for 5k over.
I have heard this argument before with another domestic car, Z06. I almost bought one but guess what, that car had such a long list of annoyances, anything from poor cooling to build issues to cars havings lots and lots of just general QA issues. It left a sour taste in my mouth and I backed out. I am glad I did because I think I would have been unhappy in the end.
Ford Performance isnt like GM apparently. They are more like M in BMW (or what M used to be 10 years ago before corporate greed took over). They take pride in their work, their stuff is unbreakable, solid, and running costs of this car is pretty much nothing. It laps and laps without any cooling issues, its stock brakes are just simply impossible to beat, and car is so simple at the end of the day you dont have forced induction going wrong.
But... A big but, because Ford is only making 350 of them total in 2 years (that is rarer than cayman, rs, gt3 and almost as rare as 911R), its nearly impossible to find one and if you do, it costs 30-50k ADM which is ridiculous. So the 61k car is more like 100-120k car after taxes and everything. Sure money is no object to some of you, to me not as much and yes I could afford it even at that price point but I would hate myself for paying so much over sticker that it would ruin my ownership experience. I am hoping after summer, things will settle a bit and I can find one for 5k over.
06-05-2016, 11:00 AM
#1070
Rennlist Member
The 350R will be available at MSRP soon enough, I have no hopes of keeping up with a 997.2 GT3 or 991GT3 at local tracks. I don't read too much into the factory laptimes at the Ring where Porsche is conservative. It's easy to turn a car into a Ringer ;-).
Same tires, close in acceleration times, Porsche brakes could finally met their match, so that leaves you with a 500lb problem that my mind can't comprehend being over come by magnetic ride shocks.
Patiently waiting for US track video's of amature drovers like us on tracks we know in 100F + conditions. We know that didn't go too well for the Boss and Z06 but the Z28 has proven itself AFAIK.
For the price, sound and looks, I would call it a win if it will drive home after a hot day where everything keeps performing as well on the last lap as on the first lap.
Same tires, close in acceleration times, Porsche brakes could finally met their match, so that leaves you with a 500lb problem that my mind can't comprehend being over come by magnetic ride shocks.
Patiently waiting for US track video's of amature drovers like us on tracks we know in 100F + conditions. We know that didn't go too well for the Boss and Z06 but the Z28 has proven itself AFAIK.
For the price, sound and looks, I would call it a win if it will drive home after a hot day where everything keeps performing as well on the last lap as on the first lap.
06-05-2016, 11:13 AM
#1071
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Anecdotally, when I was at VIR earlier this year, I was running about similar pace with a 350R. He had Cup 2 tires and they didn't last the weekend, even though VIR is somewhat easy on tires and my Cup 2 tires didn't show a lot of wear. He also told me that the car was "easy to drive".
The flatter torque curve of the 350R is also an advantage, even if the peak hp of the cars isn't too different.
06-05-2016, 11:43 AM
#1072
Race Car
I don't know much about the GT350, but I ran across a well-driven one a few weeks ago on track and I was impressed with the pace. This thread is too long to read from the beginning, so could some of you guys summarize the verdict on the GT350 from the perspective of owners of Porsche GT cars?
06-05-2016, 11:54 AM
#1073
Race Car
The 350R will be available at MSRP soon enough, I have no hopes of keeping up with a 997.2 GT3 or 991GT3 at local tracks. I don't read too much into the factory laptimes at the Ring where Porsche is conservative. It's easy to turn a car into a Ringer ;-).
Same tires, close in acceleration times, Porsche brakes could finally met their match, so that leaves you with a 500lb problem that my mind can't comprehend being over come by magnetic ride shocks.
Patiently waiting for US track video's of amature drovers like us on tracks we know in 100F + conditions. We know that didn't go too well for the Boss and Z06 but the Z28 has proven itself AFAIK.
For the price, sound and looks, I would call it a win if it will drive home after a hot day where everything keeps performing as well on the last lap as on the first lap.
Same tires, close in acceleration times, Porsche brakes could finally met their match, so that leaves you with a 500lb problem that my mind can't comprehend being over come by magnetic ride shocks.
Patiently waiting for US track video's of amature drovers like us on tracks we know in 100F + conditions. We know that didn't go too well for the Boss and Z06 but the Z28 has proven itself AFAIK.
For the price, sound and looks, I would call it a win if it will drive home after a hot day where everything keeps performing as well on the last lap as on the first lap.
Treynor took his GT350R to Laguna Seca and posted the video here (his collection includes Ferrari hypercars etc.) http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55489
06-05-2016, 12:21 PM
#1074
GT350 Track Pack reporting here with 6 months, 7,000 miles, and 1 track event....bulletproof.
Treynor took his GT350R to Laguna Seca and posted the video here (his collection includes Ferrari hypercars etc.) http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55489
Treynor took his GT350R to Laguna Seca and posted the video here (his collection includes Ferrari hypercars etc.) http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55489
I think now there is a viable option with good handling, naturally aspirated, proper tires and suspension and brakes and yes you do not need to spend 200k for a bulletproof fast fun track toy that revs over 8000 rpm. American cars still do have the "material" quality disadvantage but to be honest the difference in price is hard to swallow for a "track toy" just for better leather and better plastic buttons. You dont live with these cars 15,000 miles a year. You drive them 2000-3000 miles and the purpose is very different.
If an RS and R were equal in price, would I think differently? Of course, I would get the RS without thinking, but the price differences are just astronomical.
06-05-2016, 12:32 PM
#1075
Rennlist Member
^^ this.
Up until the Z28 nothing survived the track as cheaply as a GT4/GT3 taking in account depreciation and needed mods.
Right now it's 350R at 70ish VS GT4 for 95ish.
GT3's 2010 and up are going for MSRP..
It's not 200k.
Keep them 4 years / 100+ track days and regardless of what you love better they may or may not cost the same, consumables, depreciation and mods taken in account.
If you do a few days a year intermediate or beginner level the 350R could be much cheaper.
Plus nice and roomy, and that sound of course..
Up until the Z28 nothing survived the track as cheaply as a GT4/GT3 taking in account depreciation and needed mods.
Right now it's 350R at 70ish VS GT4 for 95ish.
GT3's 2010 and up are going for MSRP..
It's not 200k.
Keep them 4 years / 100+ track days and regardless of what you love better they may or may not cost the same, consumables, depreciation and mods taken in account.
If you do a few days a year intermediate or beginner level the 350R could be much cheaper.
Plus nice and roomy, and that sound of course..
06-05-2016, 12:47 PM
#1076
Race Car
^^ this.
Up until the Z28 nothing survived the track as cheaply as a GT4/GT3 taking in account depreciation and needed mods.
Right now it's 350R at 70ish VS GT4 for 95ish.
GT3's 2010 and up are going for MSRP..
It's not 200k.
Keep them 4 years / 100+ track days and regardless of what you love better they may or may not cost the same, consumables, depreciation and mods taken in account.
If you do a few days a year intermediate or beginner level the 350R could be much cheaper.
Plus nice and roomy, and that sound of course..
Up until the Z28 nothing survived the track as cheaply as a GT4/GT3 taking in account depreciation and needed mods.
Right now it's 350R at 70ish VS GT4 for 95ish.
GT3's 2010 and up are going for MSRP..
It's not 200k.
Keep them 4 years / 100+ track days and regardless of what you love better they may or may not cost the same, consumables, depreciation and mods taken in account.
If you do a few days a year intermediate or beginner level the 350R could be much cheaper.
Plus nice and roomy, and that sound of course..
06-05-2016, 12:58 PM
#1078
06-05-2016, 01:25 PM
#1080
Race Director
Treynor is the guy with the LaFerrari fxxk and all the yellow fxx cars right?.. Man what a collection! Nice smooth driving also, funny to watch his wife go by him on the lift with her f-car challenge... Also, interesting to see the gt350 seem to beat that 911 turbo in a drag race in front straight. Great video