NiteJav

Audi lost me when they went to electric power steering. That system was super spooky and my prior S4 would wander at times on the highway with zero input. Steering boost would go in and out. It was almost video game'ish. Alignments were perfect tires were good etc.

Also DSG vs PDK. Night and day difference in terms of their behavior. PDK feels almost telepathic while DSG is sorta doing whatever.

Spending a lot of seat time with both, I think the only reason PDK is several levels better is I think PDK is equipped with a lot more sensors to that play a role in helping the software make decisions where DSG is a bit more "dumb".

PDK (beyond gas, brake and speed) seems to take into account the grade the vehicle is on, g sensor which is looking after x,y,z and finally yaw sensor.

DSG just seems to monitor gas, brake, overall speed and hoping for driver input to do the rest. Maybe it uses the yaw sensor too but after driving the two for 10's of thousands of miles it honestly feels like DSG is lacking in terms of sensors to help it figure stuff out.

koala

1000%, this. My dad's A5 is bizarre at times. Steering input in that car leaves a lot to be desired.

Hopefully, this new TT doesn't have those issues. The electric steering in my Golf R is mostly adequate.

I have to admit, I was shocked at how "good" the 991 steering is, given that it also went electric. The weight and feedback are almost perfect, for me.

K-A

“Numb” is a very good way to put it. As engagingly small and nimble as the TT is, it does feel numb. A classic Audi trait. I used the “plastic vs metal” analogies re: how it compares to my 911 in feel and sound, etc. but numb does cover it. The 911 just feels pure and more raucous in comparison (my X Pipe plays a role in that, as well H&R’s I’m sure). Though at the same time, more relaxed and luxurious (size plays a role in that). It’s interesting.

Steering feel on my .1 is the weak spot. Sometimes I feel like it’s too overboosted and numb, sometimes it feels direct and fairly communicative/connective. One thing it IS though, is extremely accurate and telepathic when driving spiritedly. Which I guess was Porsche’s intent. Smooth for daily driving, precise for hard driving. I do wish it had more of a constant sporty feel to it though. Maybe Power Steering Plus has to do with that, but it’s also at speed.

K-A

Interesting. Do you have a .1 or .2? I loved the GTI steering, so you citing your 991 steering as superior over your R signifies it’s a classic case of less expectation makes something seem better. Also, I drove the GTI when I had a BMW with numb steering. Maybe I’m too hard on my 911’s steering feel. There’s more loose “play” than I’d like at low speeds but I do love its control and how it rotates the car when having fun.

worf928

This -^
I would speculate that DSG Audis are equipped with all the sensors needed to do what PDK does. I suspect it's more a question of those sensors being 'wired' to the DSG CU.

Until a few months ago, I would have bet that the vast majority of the difference is in the software. DSG acts as if it was programmed by folks that only know about viscous-coupled automatics whereas PDK is programmed by folks that know about traditional manual gear boxes.

However, now, after having our Macan with 'PDK' for several months, I suspect two things: 1) 'PDK' in the Macan is really DSG with a bit of Porsche-inspired programming and 2) there may be some physical limitations of the DSG which lead to some of the subjective differences between it and PDK.

The Macan 'PDK' is more DSG-like than it is Porsche-sports-car-PDK-like.

koala

I have a .1 S.

I don't mind the steering on my Golf R - it's fairly good. But, I have to have the steering to the heaviest setting in individual, and I generally drive the R in race mode, as it's too bouncy in normal suspension mode.

It's funny because the 911 is the opposite - I only had a chance to drive it a few weeks, but I generally found the normal suspension setting was more than firm enough for me.

When tossing around a Golf, I think it gives the impression of great steering input just because of the size of the car. What I find is that it just leaves a lot to be desired in terms of "feel" - it's pretty vague.

K-A

You’re spot on. The Macan does use an Audi DSG, not made by ZF like the real PDK’s (can’t remember who makes it), tuned by Porsche (software). It also has physical limitations in the sense where it’s been revealed by insider engineers and people in the know (as well as performance companies who are privy to this information as they list said limitations in power-mod descriptions) that the S and Turbos are essentially pushing torque figures that are PEAK of what the hardware can handle. I believe the only hardware change from Audi’s is that Porsche beefs up the clutch pack. And the Turbo is beefed up more (the GTS gets the Turbo clutch pack). However, still, they’re all just about meeting the limit of what those PDK’s can handle, apparently.

Capt_and

The steering in the GTI and 991 is rated top 10 best steering feel in one of the automotive publications. I really do think the steering in my GTI is fantastic for a modern car. However, I do wish I went with the R since the torque steer often ruins the fun for me.

The 991 has really heavy direct steering compared to all of the other cars I've driven recently. I'm surprised that you find it loose. Do you have power steering plus? Maybe if you disabled that it would feel better for you at low speeds.

I will probably never own another BMW since the steering feels like a Lexus now... Even my F80 M3 felt like an early 2000's Camry.

Needsdecaf

I love my GTI. The lag is bad and the traction sucks. Otherwise a hoot!

Disconnecting the soundaktor took less than 30 minutes and I don’t regret it at all. You should be able to find plenty of threads on VWVortex on it.

Needsdecaf

That’s what I did. DSG daily, which I find to be very good. Not PDK good, but very good.

It is better at low speed take off than the new 8 speed PDK in the Panamera I just had for a week. NOTICEABLY better.

DC911S

I test drove a TTS once and then had an urge to sing show tunes for some reason afterwards. But it passed.

K-A

Speaking of which, what’s the consensus re: the new 8 speed PDK and how it compares to the 7 speed? Of course, we haven’t seen the new application tuned to a sports car yet, but curious how it feels.

TexasRider

Bringing back up an older thread, I was semi interested in these TT. Maybe even the second gen cars. So I looked to see what our guys know.

I've been casting around for a "sport" car to drive with my daughter who is learning to drive. My then almost new and loaded up 981S got flooded down here and totaled. So I wasn't trying to spend new 911 T money. These TT's are around and not too much to buy one certified even.

But the idea that they are just a VW car with some tweaks - ugggh for me right there. Bad seats. Numb car . . . As usual RL scores! And I do remember a couple of buds being on first name basis with their Audi service advisors. They didn't make appointments - just bring it in.

You know I shopped some on the Corvettes. They have a look and they aren't so pricey but they aren't for me really. Then the Z. As a old Z guy, 260Z if that tells you anything ha, I like those cars. One good thing is they are their own car.

I drove the new 718 Cayman and it isn't happening for me. So my looking glass says 911 is it now. I can also say after seeing the TT here that even if I did get one it would be black or blue. While white is their color these days, it is so much so here I almost never see another color Audi.

So here the search goes on. Finding a used 991 I like is a tough proposition. And when the heck did the dealers all buy auction cars anyway? What happened to their own trades. I can see I may have to pony up new 991 money yet. But maybe Ill wring out something else for a while beforehand.

So thanks for putting this comparo up.

koala

I have the same drivetrain as the TT-S in my Golf R. Great platform, very tunable and when tuned, very fast. BUT, it doesn't sound very nice. The 718 sounds better, and that is saying a lot as the 718's sound like Subaru STI's.

Life is short. I suspect you'll come around and get a 991. New or used, doesn't much matter. Some of us prefer the NA, while others like the 3 litre turbo. They're all amazing cars and you really can't much go wrong with any 991.

BradB